And how many people a year does car emmissions kill..... are we going to start shutting down, bankrupting Auto plants TOO??

There's a LONG LIST of industries that supposedly KILL people....ARE YOU GOING TO SHUT THEM ALL DOWN, BANKRUPT them all. Something tells me that the answer is YES!!

To a large extent, we already have socialized medicine today.

The military, state, and federal employee's all enjoy single-payer health benefits and most consider it a wonderful essential perk of the job.

The uninsured get "free" emergency room care.

Medicaid operates at a 3% overhead rate.

Welfare moms get state funded healthcare though it's coverage is wholly inadequate in most states.

Yet...we still have the most expensive health care system in the world with only marginally rated effectiveness.



Precisely who would lose their jobs if we had some more single-payer medicine?


Mr. Wondering

Mimi????

Did you write this regarding Welfare????



And now you know this is untrue, right? Because in MANY States this is and has been happening for DECADES.

Tax advantages are a lot different than handouts. A reduction in what is PAID is far better than some loser that contributes NOTHING to society except for more mouths to feed, more healthcare to GIVE away, more welfare to pay, more crime on the street...etc.

VERY FEW people actually NEED welfare. They CHOOSE it instead. But money is always there for drugs and booze.

I've seen it with my own eyes.

Go back a few posts. I left a link in one of my posts.

I'm checking out for the night.

Have a good one, everyone.

and BTW, healthcare programs like CHIP provide MORE benefits than an employer plan. Something for nothing...the motto of the democrats.

I wonder who, besides TAX LAWYERS will reap a lot of profits in the new Obamanation. Oh yeah...baby killers.

That's easy too. You see...they are TWO separate statements that someone is attempting to link together to create the desired result.

The NEW PLANT...will invest in alternative energy instead of coal because they will be aware, AFOREFRONT, that IF they chose coal it would bankrupt them.

The OLD coal plants that already exist will generate the "billions of dollars" as they continue to emit carbon. They will finally be motivated to seriously invest in emission reducing technology and, eventually, when alternative sources become more economically feasible...shut down and convert to such alternatives.

Coal industry may lose (though they will be exporting to the thousands of new coal plants in China for years to come which will actually HELP reduce the trade deficit)... other industries will gain. In the end....we all win.

Mr. Wondering

If you wanto to work the system in Texas, I'll lay it out for you.

Apply for welfare.
The state sends you a list of people who are hiring for jobs.
Show up at the place for a application, make sure you do everything you can to give the manager the impression your not interested in working.
If possible dress down, do NOT dress appropriately.
Get the application, DO NOT FILL IT OUT AT THE STORE IF POSSIBLE.
Get the manager to sign your government form stating that you did apply.
If you couldnt get a signature without turning in the application, give the manager a chip on your shoulder.
DO NOT FILL OUT the application once you leave, remember the goal was just to get a signature saying you applied for the job.

This is still being done on a daily basis here. We now REFUSE to sign the government form until we get the job application completed.

And just a hint, if you REALLY want to make sure you don't get hired at a retail job, you need to get caught shoplifting and prosecuted and convicted.

Alot of companies including the one i work for have a policy that if you have been convicted of stealing, your not eligible to work with us.

*** I almost forgot, don't take the chip on your shoulder thing too far, you might want to apply there again in the future.

Not even close....


While the military may have 'free' health insurance, STATE and FEDERAL employee's DO NOT. Both have choices as to WHO there insurance carrier will be where the military does not.

I just worked an "Open Season/Health Insurance Fair" for Federal employees at a Naval base in my state. There were 12 other insurance carriers there that the Federal Employees could chose from. Aetna, BCBS, Mailhandlers benefit plan, GEHA, etc..... All private health insurance carriers....

Wrong AGAIN....that 'free' ER care that the 'unisured' is getting is being PAID FOR by YOU AND ME and everyone else that pays for their health insurance coverage



You're kidding me RIGHT??? "Welfare mothers" get the SAME care, same doctors, same Hospitals that you and I do. In fact, MEDICAID pays for MORE things then my private Health insurance does and HAS NO DEDUCTIBLE or co-pays


And the BEST!! But I'd LOVE TO KNOW why YOU THINK that its expensive.


Every single person that is now employeed by a Health Care company. From claim processers, to CSR to nurses and doctors. Millions of people.

My thing is..there ARE those that ABUSE the system and there are those that do not.

I NEVER said that the system is foolproof.

I was IN ERROR about what's true in MY STATE being TRUE in others..

Giving instances of it's flaws or weaknesses is not gonna make me disagree in principle with there being a welfare system in this country.

I agree with the NEED for GOVERNMENT ASSISTANCE and you guys don't. I don't think I'm the sole person in America in agreement with it...although I'm more of a LONE WOLF here for some reason.

I think that's kinda weird but...

Anyways..

It is what it is.

Although the welfare system IS abused (and no candidate SUPPORTS abuse of welfare) it is interesting to note how much Clinton's 1996 Welfare Reform actually reduced the welfare roles.

[the way I read Obama's 1996/1997 criticism of the Clinton plan is that he thought Clinton compromised to much with the Republican Congress...he changed his mind AFTER the numbers came in showing it was effective. In other words, the fact that history showed welfare to work programs effectively reduced the welfare roles pleased him. That should be encouraging to those that FEAR an Obamanation welfare state]




Mr. Wondering

I'm always in awe at how the LEFT can spin things to make them SEEM like the right thing to do.

I thought that the WHOLE POINT of doing away with Coal Powered plants was because of carbon emmisions. IF THAT's the truth, then shipping the coal to China as you state, just puts the carbon emmissions over there RIGHT??

I thought the LEFTs issues with the environment wasn't just about the US's emissions but the worlds???

If thats true then your statement DOESN'T HOLD WATER....as it wouldn't matter where the coal was being used, it's still being used right???


Is that right??? Using coal, as the LEFT says, no matter where in the world it is used is still putting out carbon emmissions so if you really CARED about the ENVIRONMENT that wouldn't even have been a suggestion on your part...

Where in the world did you get that? I never wrote anything about not advocating Government Assistance programs, Mimi.

Is your world full of nothing but absolutes, because I wrote "there are HOLES" in responding to your statement that our Gov't Assistance had failsafe's to prevent misuse (holes), which it doesn't:


For the record: I am not against Gov't Assitance programs, but I am FOR them needing profound improvements, aka an overhaul.

Jo

Mimi....that's not true. I AGREE totally with you that there is a need for GOVERNMENT ASSISTANCE. I agree that there are those out there that NEED GOVERNMENT ASSISTANCE.

What I do not agree with is who does and who doesn't need GOVERNMENT ASSISTANCE.

Welfare was set up during the depression as a HAND UP not a HAND OUT and there are a majority of people out there who are using GOVERNMENT ASSISTANCE as a HAND OUT, A WAY OF LIFE.

Instead of letting these people stay on assistance programs year after year after year, making it a way of life, they should be made to educate themselves if they want, with help from the government or get a job, whichever they prefer. I would rather pay for someone to take classes at the local college to better themselves and then get a job, then to pay for their way in life.

EVERYONE that is not ELDERLY or DISABLED should be given a time frame as to when they will NO LONGER be supported by YOU AND ME.

Wow...an admission.

If welfare mothers get the SAME care, same doctors, same Hospitals that you and I get and, if fact, get MORE things than even private health insurance provides with no deductibles or copays than you and I...

THEN....

What is wrong with me wanting that for myself?

Employees in the private health insurance protection racket losing their jobs is of little concern to me. They are merely skimming off the top like middlemen adding about 30% to the total cost of healthcare in this country. Their idea of reducing costs with efficiencies means delaying and denying health coverage. Profitering off the fear (of bankruptcy) and sicknesses of others is immoral and unethical.

HMO's are the bane of the health care industry. Where they exist in large numbers...private hospitals and private doctors offices will gladly and expediently fill in the gaps. It's really only the middlemen...private insurers and their employees that would be left in the cold. As you said, I could get the same care, the same doctors, the same hospitals whether I pay private health insurance or like, welfare moms, rely on a single-payer system.

I say...to heck with the middleman.

btw...this ISN'T Obama's position. Just mine. The insurance industries payola runs too deep into both the republican party and the democratic party for much to likely change very soon. However, I imagine there will come a point in time (these economic times MAY be such time)...where too many individuals don't have health insurance that a single-payer system will likely become the only viable alternative. Right now the health industry, as a whole, makes enormous profits despite having to pass through the cost of caring for the uninsured to those that actually are insured. It's private socialism. The point of reckoning will occur when the number of insured can no longer sustain that cost. What then????

Mr. Wondering

Its the definition of wealthy that scares me.

But I'll get back to the subject of this thread, the civilian security force.

We don't need it. We've been doing just fine with what we have.

We have county,city,state agencies to do that.
Police, Sheriffs, Marshalls, FBI, DHS, State Troopers, State Marshalls, State and National Guardsmen.

I am concerned that a military organization with the word "civilian" in its formal name could be argued doesn't violate the Posse Comitatus Act.

This "Civilian organization" once its formed could over time have its "mission" changed to do things it was never intended to do, while having the same weapons and training as our military.

Mimi... theres a reason you separate the military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state, the other serves and protects the people. When the Civil defense Force becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people

Sorry to have misinterpreted you, Jo.


I wish..


OK. Got it.

What EXACLY is that an admission of?? That if you're a LAZY ***edit*** drain on society that the LIBERAL LEFT doesnt see anything wrong with it and want's the same thing for themselves at the sacrifice of ANYONE in their way....including anyone that works in that industry???

You should have said something, I would have admitted to that earlier.


****edit**** of the health insurance industry aren't you?? I bet you also scream and complain about how much the oil companies make without any thought to how much they pay in taxes....DON'T YOU??

Here's a thought...while you wait for your boy wonder to make your life wonderful, go apply for MEDICAID so that you ALSO can have all the benefits that they have. I'm sure with the way the MEDICAID system is now, you could probably fib your way through and get coverage. Then you'd no longer be able to complain about what YOU have to pay in insurance premiums.

No worries and thanks Mims. I apologize too if I read mean or impatient.

Have a fine evening.

:pumkin:

So sorry to have misinterpreted you, too, JoJo..

You and I are EXACTLY on the same page..

And the system HERE in MY STATE is exactly as you have spelled out..I thought it was likewise in every state..

But knowledge about government programs is evidently NOT my area of expertise....