Best of luck to ya...

Mark

Just because she SAYS she wants to get D in 3 months doesn't mean she will. QUIT listening to what she says.

Mel is right, and this cannot be emphasized enough:

1. She needs to commit to NC with OM forever. That goes for you, too. If you guys can't agree to this (neither of you ever see or talk to OM again, ever - and this means your WW can't go to her sister's house for visits, ever, as long as she lives next door to OM) then you may as well file for D right now. Which is more important, your M, or your friendship with OM and your WW's ability to visit her sister next door to OM? Pick one, now, and stick to your decision.

2. NC does not need to be established with a personal visit. A personal visit breaks NC the moment it has been promised. Your WW needs to write a NC letter to OM that states only her commitment to you and that their friendship was a mistake. She should ask that OM never contact her again, ever, in any way. Then YOU mail the letter.

3. This has to be forever. When your WW says "I'll do it for three months" she is saying "I'll go along with this so I can say we tried and it didn't work." Do not be fooled by this.

Your situation may not be textbook but thus far I have not seen anything about it that is special. If your WW has not slept with OM it will be the first time the collective experience of these boards has been wrong about something like this. I'm not saying it's impossible that his story is true, I'm saying it will be the first time in hundreds.

Ok, so NC needs to be established and when I say this to her, and she says, nope, I'm not losing my friend and I say, he's not a friend, he's the man you have feelings for, how do I get her to agree to this? I'm not sure what I have to do to get her to agree to all of this? I'm trying to be strong about it, but I'm at wits end. I went to call him yesterday while we were discussing what needs to be done, and she came out of the chair in my direction to grab my phone away. I put the phone down and told her to get back, we're not going to get in a physical altercation.

Last night she went to her friends and told them she won't be around them so she can be a wife to me, whatever that means. She said she's not willing to give me a second chance, but she's willing stay away from OM? I guess she's trying to keep me from contacting OM? I'm guessing OM hasn't let her know that I have contacted him, or she would've probably left by now. She's been begging me and pleading with me not to contact OM. She keeps telling me not to threaten her. I told her I never made a threat, I told her last night I was going to go to her parents house and talk to them with her, or alone, whatever she wanted and she yelled out for me not threaten her. I said, no, it's not a threat, this is what's going to happen, I'm not making threats.
She did reveal to me last night that she didn't think I would be so emotional about this. I'm not sure what to say about this. I mean, certain people have certain characteristics , was I just supposed to go along with the program and say, "Oh, you want a divorce? Yeah no problem, let's do it, I don't care about you anyways!" I mean, I've never been mr. emotions, I can't remember the last time I cried before this happened, I wouldn't exactly call myself emotional, but this has been a traumatic event for me. I love her and don't want to lose her. I haven't even cried at funerals, but the first 3 weeks I haven't been able to hold it together half the time.

I guess the only thing I have left is to contact OM publicly to her and let her know it's happening. She told me she's about to have a nervous breakdown, so I'm not sure it's the best idea, maybe I could wait a week? She also told me she's thinking about moving out of the house today because she's tired of my emotions. I haven't had any emotions, I don't cry anymore and I don't get upset anymore, she knows this. I need some direction from here. I don't want to see her doing anything stupid, from the result of a nervous breakdown. She told me if I tell OM, she will lose him as a friend, her best friend (OM's sister) and every other dumb friend she has in that group.

Please tell me what to do from here, with a wife that's wayward, who's on the edge of a breakdown, and what I need to do, I really need direction. Giving up on me at this point is not acceptable. I appreciate anyone who can stick it out with me at this point. Please don't give up on me, I don't know who else to turn to. This isn't some game, this is my life and I need help. Thank you.
35_and_trying

35, you already have contacted the OM. I am confused about why she does not know this? I am soo confused about what you are doing. Why would you need to call him again??????

35, my friend, you are a ship without a rudder who is making strategic mistakes. You are spinning around in the bay and will get nowhere until you STOP TAKING YOUR OWN COUNSEL AND LISTEN TO US. We have saved our marriages, your best thinking led to the mess you are in.

The LEAST OBJECTIVE PERSON ON THIS THREAD IS YOU. We have experience and are not emotionally distraught, but you won't listen to us. Mark is one of the best posters on this forum and he has thrown his hands up in frustration.

I am FRUSTRATED to see all this time wasting activity. It HURTS us to see you hurting yourself like this.

Now, will you please explain WHY you have not told her you have spoken to the OM??

Knowing melody and other's that post here. I'm sure they told you to expose. Then not to warn that you are going to expose before you do it.

You finish up your last post with tell me what to do.

Why? You don't do it.

You keep telling your WW that the both of you must tell her parents, she wont go, you say you are, then you wuss out then don't go.

Expose every where, every one, WW's parents, siblings, friends, OM if single then expose his parents. Don't believe that he is not married. Many a time a WW lies so you don't expose the OM's W or GF.

You have to man up and find ways to get involved with her recreational activities.
Go to the gym with her. You are letting the OM meet her needs. And, get romantic alone time for him to fill her love bank. You are putting the nails into your own coffin.

Go bike with WW. Don't use that wuss excuse well WW has a road bike and I have a slow mountain bike. Insist on going. If WW say's you won't keep up and it will kill the fun for them. Tell WW she as your wife is to put your fun ahead of the OM's fun. That if she had patience that you would be able to better keep up in a short while with her pushing and encouraging you. If you getting up to speed was that important then she should get you a road bike.

Because she's nearly close to having a mental breakdown after we went and saw her parents. She came to me today and told me she has lost her mind and was crying uncontrollably. The last thing she wants to hear is that I told OM, that's the only thread she's hanging by before she probably does something very bad. I can't push her over the edge. I would rather lose my wife than see her harm herself, she is mentally drained. I'm not trying to protect her, I just don't want to see her be pushed over the edge, I couldn't live with myself. She's not emotionally stable right now. I can see the warning signs when someone sees their life not worthwhile anymore and I'm not wanting to push her that way. God I hope that makes sense.

I didn't wuss out and not go, we went together last night to see the inlaws. I know for a fact he's divorced. I know this because I personally know OM, this isn't a stranger, this is a mutual friend of ours. We have known him for many years. I know his wife left him for another man to whom she is now married.
Today after my wife broke down emotionally crying uncontrollably, she said she's emotionally drained and can't take another minute of it. She wanted to move out. I told her to wait 1 more day, the counseling session is tomorrow afternoon. I will put off all emotional talk with her until then. This afternoon I will try to get her to go biking with me, I've got to start somewhere. She has agreed to sever contact with OM, albeit, it was difficult to get this far.
She has told me that she hates me for making her go to her parents and reveal our personal business. She got very upset and out of control with her emotions. She said that if I talk to OM then she won't have any friends left, that OM is a best friend, OM's sister is a best friend and 2 other friends that are also very close. These are W's ONLY close friends. She said that if I expose to them her feelings she's done with everything. I take that to mean she's done with life in general the way she said it to me. I don't want to push her over the edge of reality. I know that sounds like I'm protecting her and if it is, that's what I have to do. I can't watch my wife have a nervous breakdown in front of me. Call me weak, but I'd rather see her keep her mental health than to lose it all over this. I will update after counseling tomorrow. Sorry to have failed everyone.
35_and_failed

You are being MANIPULATED and you don't possess the strength to see it or act to stop it.

There is really nothing else to say to you until you are willing to "MAN UP" and do the tough things necessary to save your M ... namely just STAND UP to your WW and say ENOUGH!!!

So you think it best that she hold out HOPE for her affair, the very thing that has caused her this emotional turmoil, in order to keep her mentally STABLE? That does not make sense, 35. I am not agreeing with your logic here.

Her affair, or desire of same, has brought her to this horrible place. Right now she is upset because her parents have been told but she knows this will blow over and she can go back to doing what she WAS DOING. That is her plan. And her HOPE is that you do not contact these people. i suspect she is lying to her GF about all this.

My suggestion would be to tell her the truth NOW and get this done with so you can move forward. I do not believe for a minute you will send her over the edge by telling her, but will instead help her out of this guilty MORASS she is in by giving her news that assures her this is OVER. She will recover when this is OVER. That will not happen if you withhold truth from her that conceals that fact.

I think you are making a huge strategic mistake. You have her affair hopes on the ropes right now and are passing up an opportunity to take it out.

Change in plans. W called me and said she was sick of having it held over her head that I know about OM and might tell him, so she went and told OM about her feelings and vowed not to see him anymore regardless if we stay together. She told me I'm evil and all I've ever wanted to do was see that she was hurt by this ordeal. I told her that first I never held it over head, she was the one that is feeling guilty all of a sudden, that I have nothing on her. She still wants to move out. She said she hates me that this is happening and if she is backed into a corner she comes out swinging and I told her to save her feelings for counseling tomorrow. So where do I go from here now that OM knows?
I don't really know what I'm supposed to do now. Please keep advising.
Thank you.

35, I would call the OM and ask him to end all contact with your wife so you can work on your marriage. Be sure and tell your wife you have been in contact with him.

Where is she now? Where is she calling from?

And I would not tell her to save her feelings for counseling. Let her talk. I will also add that most marriage counselors cause more harm than good. They have an 84% FAILURE RATE and do not understand anything about infidelity. The C will probably help faciliatate your divorce rather than save your marriage. Most MC are NOT pro-marriage.

I think tonight I will offer a bike ride with her even though she will probably tell me no, since OM is out of the picture, someone needs to fill that spot and that someone is me. Am I right? She will continue to exercise regardless.
She told me the reason she had feelings for another man is because she fell out of love with me in the first place and needed someone to take that spot. I have to fill in where OM left off for her in order rebuild our relationship, is this also right? I don't know if she will do it, she still is telling me she doesn't want to be with me anymore, regardless of who knows what. I don't know if that's the anger talking or what, she's a very stubborn person and so am I in a lot of ways.
I will anxiously await any replies.
Thank you.

She called me from a store, she had to go do some shopping. She said she is sick of me holding stuff over her, but I'm really not, why does she think I'm holding something over her head? We have a nice house, no kids, good dogs and loving families supporting us. She still wants to leave. I've asked her to stay and sleep in the same bed, I don't want her to go and I keep telling her that over and over. She sees me as evil for exposing this affair.

Hi there 35,

You (and your WW) are following time worn patterns by both betrayed and betrayer.

Sorry bud, you have no "special case" going for you.

Let me spell it out. Your WW is in an EA and possibly a PA. Therefore trust no-one without verification. You are very definitely fighting for the survival of your marriage.

You have two choices:
1. Wing it - and ask the good posters here for comment on your progress.
2. Listen to seasoned advisers with personal experience (some of whom regretted NOT listening to the solid council that was offered)
Think carefully, would YOU want to land the airplane with a damaged engine or would you rather leave it to a pilot?

Marriage builder posters may vary in experience but all of us are obliged to follow the guidelines laid down for the site. These are enforced by the moderators.

So far, you have made a wealth of errors. This is NOT unusual, but always frustrating for us:

1. You sacrificed the position of this site to your WW. This gives away your strategy. I am hoping that she will not come here as she probably is uninterested in saving the marriage at this point.
2. You have warned WW of your intentions. This is a kind of threat. You look as weak as a barking dog. Your actions appear like reactions. You also allow WW or OM to implement damage control. Just DO it. Never threaten.
3. Your exposure was sluggish and indecisive.
4. You are chasing after her. Trying to educate her. Remonstrating with her. These are all needy and unattractive. All she needs to know is that you consider her worthwhile and that you are fighting for the marriage.
5. You are reacting to her dramatics. Yes, you are being manipulated. Do read up about reverse fog babble in the "Just found out" forum.
6. You clearly have not read through the articles such that these have made any impact.

Advice:

1. Use this time to come closer to God if you are a Christian.
2. Read the "Quick start for newbies" in the "Just found out" section.
3. Invest in the book "Surviving an Affair" Dr Harley.
4. Don't expect an immediate response from your WW.
Don't sacrifice any privilege while she is wayward - EVER.
5. Keep posting and ALWAYS vent here than in front of her.

There are NO guarantees.

Hi imagine,

Thanks for taking the time to post, what a good read. I know I have messed up, I'm sorry and I truly appreciate all of the support you all have given. I don't think she will look in here, but if she does, there's nothing to hide from her, I spoke the truth. I will update this thread when/if anything changes. I've already started back to church and if we divorce, next time I will seek a more Christian person. I hate that I went astray from God myself, but it won't happen again. With these changes from her, have come some good changes of my own, so not all is lost. It may be better to lose my wife as to find someone with better qualities like the ones she used to possess. Anyways, I thank you all for everything. At this point, I'm not pressing it anymore with her, I promise an update in the future sometime. Thank you all again, you all know who you are.

35_and_waiting

You can't make her do anything.
You can't control her.
You can't get her to agree to all of this.

You need to be in Plan A.
What are her top ENs?
How are you meeting them?
What LBs are you guilty of?

Have you exposed to her parents? I know you've "talked" to them but what did you say? Did you say "WW is having an A with OM and I want to save my marriage, I'd appreciate your support"?

Who else do you need to expose to and when are you going to do it?
You know by now that you do NOT warn anyone you are going to expose, you just do it. All at once. No warning. Make a list and go down the list until it's done.

NC means no contact. That means you don't contact him, she doesn't contact him. You guys don't talk to him, IM him, email him, write him Christmas cards, look at him, ask your friends about him. Your WW doesn't go visit the people next door to him. EVER. Neither of you can ever have contact with OM again, EVER.

If your friendship with OM is more important to you than your M, then you need to sign off from this board and make a new life for yourself. Nobody would condemn you for it. Your wife has committed adultery and it's your choice as to whether you stay in the M or not.

But make up your mind and quit waffling.
Quit asking for advice and then ignoring it.

Sucks to be her. Waiting a week will only drag it out.

YOU dont' need to go to OM publicly.
SHE needs to write a NC letter. It should say "Our friendship is harmful to my marriage. I love my husband and ask that you never contact either of us ever again." Then you mail the letter. You don't deliver it in person, because you are in NC, remember?


Quit listening to what she says. She'll tell you she hates you, she'll tell you she's committed to the marriage. She'll tell you you're the worst thing that ever happened to her, that she can't trust you. Ignore it all. This is very hard to do. Ignore it. Your broken loop tape should be "I love you and I'm committed to doing whatever it takes to save our marriage."

Oh, poor baby. She made stupid choices and now she gets to reap the rewards of her selfish actions.

Plan A.
Quit asking for advice and then ignoring it.

I feel like I'm wasting my time typing to someone who doesn't really want advice. I know you're in pain, and I know you think you want help, but I'm beginning to think I could spend my time better talking to someone who really intends to make a difference in their lives.

Plan A.
Like your life depends on it.
Nothing else.

Yes.
What are her top ENs?
How are you filling them?

Pretty much, yes.
Do you know about the love bank?
Do you understand ENs and LBs?

Don't pay attention to what she says. She will be all over the map. Your standard response is "I love you and I am committed to doing whatever it takes to save our marriage."

First, this is WW manipulation. They ALL do it. Read some more threads. You'll see it all in there - everything she is saying and doing. Stop listening to her, because she isn't herself right now; she's been taken over by an alien, and until she's past withdrawal, nothing she says is really what she thinks - every sentence, every word, is based on trying to get OM back. She (the alien) thinks that he is her savior now, and her only chance. She'll never stop thinking that unless you get NC. With a written letter. And expose to your family as well as the rest of hers.

The reason she's feeling like she's having a nervous breakdown is that you are making her face her shame. Most people go their whole lives being able to avoid their own shames, whatever they may be. It makes her extremely vulnerable to other people's opinions; it's hard.

But she has to get through that - by telling both families - so that she can come back up from the gutter and move forward. If she doesn't do that, the rest of her life will be nothing but lies.

If you really love her, you will man up and do the exposure, and work on a NC letter together. She's supposed to hate you for doing it - they all do. But then withdrawal comes, fog lifts, and they are appalled at what the alien inside them did. Only YOU can bring this about.

Thank you for the reply. I am trying to fill her EN's right now as much as possible. She is hesitant to rely on me for anything, but I continue to offer, regardless. She is still very angry over the exposing this weekend. She said she doesn't trust me anymore. She threatened to go to my parents just a little while ago and I told her to go ahead, in fact, if she wants, we can go together, I have no secrets from anyone. I have nothing to hide and I know my parents are there for me no matter what happens. I guess that backfired for her, as she must have thought I had some secrets I didn't want anyone to know about. Wrong.

It's funny, I've been studying all the replies that have been posted in this thread. It was almost like clockwork, the day after the exposing happened, she said one of the very lines that someone here said she would. She said, "I was actually thinking of loving you again and trying to make this happen, but you've ruined any chance of that". I almost laughed at her because, I was like, wow you're following the exact responses that I was told you would give. I didn't say that to her, I just said it in my mind.

She's very very angry with me still, and I expect that. I still offer the standard response, I love you and I will be here for you, no matter what you need from me. She's not too crazy about that response. I guess in her eyes, I'm supposed to be acting a different way. I told her, I still love her, especially in her times of need.

I will get to the NC letter eventually, right now, she doesn't want anything to do with me and she's borderline thinking of moving out of the house. I told her if she moves out, everything that she has tried to do positive, won't be worth it any longer. Moving out and in with one of the friends that has been facilitating this awkward lifestyle, only will make things worse.

Initially when I found out about the affair, she offered to sleep separately and I told her no. Then, when I was confused, before I found this board, I asked her to go in there and she refused. Now she's back to feeling angry and maybe guilty and she went and slept in there last night.

Thank you for the replies.