I'm having a really rough evening. WH stopped over to drop off some kid stuff and I did good with EN and no LB -- asked about day, asked him to dinner, kindness, etc. Then he tells me he has an apartment and can move in in two weeks. I about lost it right there! I told him I was glad since that was what he wanted.
Later, I realized I was not going to be able to keep my sadness in, so I told him, "You know how much I love you and that I will do everything to help this marriage, but it is difficult for me to hear about the apartment. Although you are welcome over any other time, I need you to leave now." Of course he did (he's such a nice guy! Willing to do anything for me, except not leave me). He said, we'll talk more in MC tomorrow, which I translate into, I'll tell you more about how I don't love you.
I don't know if I followed MB, but I did what I had to to keep it together tonight.

Good job!!! This is all still new to you, and you did fine. You will get the hang of it as you do it more and more.

Don't worry - he is going by the WS handbook, and that makes it easy to fight.

Thanks, believer, you have given me some peace tonight. Someone else told me to pay attention to what he does, not says. He is over here a lot and really "taking care" of all of us. I don't know if that is positive or what. Of course, I want to scream, don't clean the garage and mow the lawn, come back to your family!!
Another friend suggested I go into counseling tomorrow on the offensive with my desire to work on marriage and not wait for him to lay out his "fog-babble." That really made me feel like I could use the MC tomorrow for positive self-care. I struggle so much with the "right" choice, because I am also in so much grief about the loss of my best friend...
Thank you all -- I hope that some day I make it through this and can give back, but I'm in my own little pain bubble right now...
BF439

Me: 37
WH: 39
D day: June 30, 2008 and again 10/25/08
kids: 12, 11, 4

"you can't be wrong doing the right thing"

It is extremely painful at first, but I promise you that you will get through this and CAN have a much better marriage.

Counseling, while hubby is having an affair is pretty much a waste of money, but if it makes you feel better, go ahead and go.

Try to figure out hubby's emotional needs. There is a questionnaire here. The OW is meeting some needs that you failed to meet. See if you can figure out what they are. Admiration is usually a big one for men.

Then you just have to do a solid Plan A for 2 months or so. You show him that YOU are the more attractive alternative. I know, it doesn't seem fair, but that is what works.

Change the things that he complained about BEFORE the affair.

Let your kids know that you have a plan.

That's helpful to think about what to say to the kids. I have reiterated to them, that I do not want the marriage to be over, but I don't go into details with them. WH was the one who even told them about the affair to begin with.
I have told myself that I will go to counseling tomorrow and present my desires (to work on marriage) and not get too worked up if he and counselor are of other mind. If that's the case, I won't go back. I also asked my biggest support to learn about MB and what I am attempting to do. She was very willing and supportive to do so. I may ask others who are my support persons, so they may have some clue that I am not in denial, but fighting for my marriage and family.

Also, he agreed to do the love busters questionaire for me and although he probably won't do the EN yet, I can start to look at those to get an idea. I think I already know that work/admiration is one -- he's a big deal in his field and this young woman was I'm sure impressed by him. Me and the kids just resented how much he worked because we missed him.

bf,

You're doing fine. Good that you told him when you really needed him to leave before you said or did something you'd regret later. Good girl.

One day at a time.

BREATHE!

Thanks, Righttherewaiting! You have no idea how helpful it is to hear that kind of support!
Questions out there to all: My WH took off his wedding ring one day after leaving -- I wore mine on and off all summer and told him is was more about the pain I was in, not about my committment. SOmetimes I wore it on a necklace.
Should I keep wearing it in Plan A or not? I kept it off lately as though to say, yes, I get how you feel... I have been wearing my engagement ring. I hate not wearing either...
Any thoughts?
BF439

Are you still married? Do you intend to stay married?

Then wear the rings. Whether he does or not.

Just got out of MC. It wasn't as bad as I thought. I stuck to MB principles of no LB's and we talked some about EN (although not in those terms).
I was also able to clearly state where I am, that I love him and am not interested in a divorce. He again is adamant that the marriage is over, not because of lover, but that he and she do love each other.
I don't think he knows about exposure to OW's parents.
The whole thing was painful, but I did ok. I have individual later today, so I can take care of myself.
Should I still be in Plan A with how adamant he is? He is staying away from her as far as I can tell, but who knows. He said his goodbye with more tears and "I never wanted to hurt you" -- is that typical? In session he's so defended and then he'll just break down randomly. Again, he says he wants to end things now to not prolong my pain.
Any thoughts? Any similar experiences?
P.S. We have no plans to return right now and I plan to call the MB counselors today!

Excellent job, bf! You did good.

Your WH is behaving very, very typically. Not typically for HIM, of course, but right on the mark for a wayward.

You are aware, of course, that if he IS still seeing her (and it sounds like he is) that the MC sessions will have no impact on him at all. Still, it was good that you got the chance to speak clearly and openly in a safe environment, with NO LOVE BUSTERS! Good girl. That is HARD in the beginning.

So glad to hear that you will be doing a telephone session with Steve or Jennifer (Dr. Harley's son or daughter). The don't blather. They don't "counsel." They COACH. They give you specific instructions on how to handle yourself and the situation. None of this "well, this all goes back to his childhood" crap. Just a concrete plan for the here and now. If you can afford it, do it more than once. And no matter how counterintuitive their advice seems to you... DO IT. It is your best hope.

You are in good hands, BF. Use the program, and keep talking to us. We've DONE the program and know a lot of the pitfalls. Hopefully we can keep you from making some of the mistakes we made along the way.

I know this requires some blind trust from you, and you've just been burned by blind trust. You don't HAVE to believe in all this, but what have you got to lose?

Hang in there, baby. You're doing fine.

I had a great individual session with counselor- she was very supportive of my MB plan. I am also scheduled for a session with Steve Harley on Tuesday. I'm working on what I can handle each day to meet his ENs. Tonight I invited him to come to a movie with me and the kids- he seemed very excited and I think I can handle it. I don't know how BS hang around WS when they are so set on marriage being over. I'm going to also try what was suggested in terms of not even talking about the relationship right now. He knows where I am, tho.

All great strides! You sound more together than I was in the beginning (and my marriage still made it!). You will have your highs and lows, but keep doing what you're doing every day, as best you can.

When you hit the inevitable lows, come here and vent. Do NOT blow up at WH. Doing so will undo all the hard work you'd done before you blow, kinda like pulling the stitches out of a blanket you've been crotcheting. Come here when you'd rather give him a pot to the head.

Make yourself some notes for your call with Steve. Write out your sitch as succinctly and clearly as you can, so he can quickly get up to speed and start coaching you. TAKE NOTES while he's talking to you--if I hadn't, I'd have forgotten half of what he said after I hung up. Once you've put his advice into practice, start logging your results, WH's behavior and any new problems/questions that come up, so if you call him again you won't be muddy.

Way to go on meeting his ENs. Assume you've had to figure them out for yourself (or did he actually tell you? I forget.) Can you tell us what they are? Perhaps someone will be able to give you ideas on how to fill them without draining yourself.

Great idea to invite him to join you and the kids for a movie. At least you won't have to listen to the fog babble during the show.

It IS awful to "hang around a WS when they are so set on the marriage being over." The pits. Here's an idea that might help. Have you ever wanted to be an actress? Most of us did as little girls, no? Here's your Academy Award-winning role: You're playing the part of someone who is fearful, hurt and tired, but to save her life, has to come across as loving, energetic and confident.

Lights! Camera! ACTION!

I can't say that I know what his most important emotional needs are, but I am guessing: Admiration, sexual fulfillment and conversation and financial. I can do admiration, conversation and be careful with money while we are separated, but how do I do the sexual fulfillment if he doesn't want to do anything with me that would "prolong this pain" for me. Not that I wouldn't like some SF myself -- its been awhile ;, but I think the most he would do is hug me and that even feels so alien to me.
I think I'll ask him to complete the EN questionaire. He seems willing to do anything that I identify as being helpful to my growth or moving on. He's working on the LB questionaire this weekend.
Let me know if anyone has any suggestions and I'll just keep trying!
BF439

Me 37
WH 39
currently separated
Kids, 12, 11 and 4
Discovery date 7/30/08 and again(fully) on 10/25/08.

I'm not sure I'd be in a rush to hop into bed with this man, who is almost certainly still involved with another woman who's slept with who knows how many others. Have you gone to your doc for a complete STD workup?

I know, I know. Another humiliation. Another really low point in my saga too. You are gonna be so humble when you're done with this that you will deserve company with Mother Theresa. But you must do this to protect yourself.

It's early yet, but understand that you will not be able to withstand working Plan A forever. He's having more fun cake eating than you're having trying to prove yourself the better choice as a life partner. So work it real good in the coming weeks, so if the affair doesn't end soon, and you ultimately have to go to Plan B, you can do it knowing you gave it your all in Phase One of the MB plan.

Stay tuff.

I'm in no rush to bed him- I've let hiM know that he is not a safe person to me. I will be going to doctor in next week ( she's been on vacation). I actually fully expect that I will have to go Plan B with him, but I feel like I never did enough Plan A to start off with. My counselor called plan a a gift to him that he may not appreciate but i know I've done what I can. You support has been Most appreciated! I'll post after movie to let folks know if I could MB tonight!
BF439

Glad to hear you've already got a doc appointment lined up. You are so doing everything right. I wish I'd had your composure.

Also good to know you are realistic enough to allow for the possibility that he may not respond to your Plan A. Just leave him with the memory of the best you that you can be, if you should come to the point that you must Plan B to preserve your love for him.

I think knowing that Plan A is for a finite amount of time helps us keep up the effort. Nobody could do that forever without seeing some results. And nobody should.

Hope the movie provides a little lighthearted time for all of you. And that you can get a good night's sleep.

I did pretty well at the movie tonight, but I always seem to get a little anxious before I see him and am short with the kids. I hate that because they don't deserve any of this.
Only a little LB's at the end when he balked at some suggestions I had for taking one of the kids, as well as him taking the younger two tomorrow. Its hard for me to have any down time because I always have one of them (oldest doesn't want to go with him at all, so I either have her or all of them). But I recovered and didn't make it worse.
He thanked me and hugged me for asking him to the movie. I gave him the EN questionaire and he agreed to fill it out for me (not us, but I know that's where he's at).
That's all for today-- it was a lot, now that I look back! What an exhausting day!
BF439

Great job. You are learning quickly. Many men have admiration for one of their top needs, so work on that. You can email him and tell him thanks for spending time with you and the kids at the movies.

You will need to do a good Plan A for at least 6 weeks before you go to Plan B. You will get the knack of it. Just pretend he is sick or insane.

Look back in your marriage before the affair and change anything that he complained about.

Glad you will get at least one session with the Harleys. They will help you develop a good plan.

Ok, so I'm in Plan A, went to the movie last night as a family, all going well. I followed believer's advice this morning and texted him a thank you. His response is about us celebrating birthdays together next weekend (our birthdays are 5 days apart). I respond with admiration and surprise. He then mentions the birthday gift he has in mind for me and do I want to know what it is (he doesn't want me to buy it, too). He just texted that he wants to get me a tv for my bedroom, which I have wanted. My response all, thank yous, you are so sweet, etc. Of, course what I really want to say is I don't want a {censored} tv, I want my husband home!!
Now, should I get him a gift? Prior to plan A I wasn't going to, feel like I don't even know him well enough to get him anything? Maybe something for his apartment? I think I just made my ownself sick....
BF439

Good job. Now remember, you only have to do this for around 6 weeks or so. So don't get sick. Think of it as your battle plan. I would get him a gift, and celebrate your birthdays together.

Have you checked out trying2live's thread? She is doing an excellent Plan A, getting ready for Plan B.