Progress?

My H asked why I'm not using my expensive, super comfy pillow while I'm in the guestroom. I answered that I just haven't bothered to go upstairs to get it. Then I corrected myself. I said, "Wait. That wasn't the truth and that's not who I am any more. The real reason I haven't taken the pillow from our bed upstairs is because I want it to be there to remind you of me when you go to bed. I see it as representing me next to you. I don't want to take that away."

Just a little moment I wanted to share...

L4,

Just let go of what he added, it's the only thing you can do. My therapist use to tell me "What is done, is done and you can't take it back so don't obsess on it."

I felt much like you do about your FOM for a very long time and ended up with a VERY unhealthy level of anger toward my FOM. I fought hard not to act on it, but I sure wanted him to pay just like I was. Even to this day if I think about it it can still get me riled up, therefore it's best I just do my best to let it go.



Don't even get me started on this subject. I apologized to FOM's W and she accepted my apology. My POSOM never apologized to anyone even after my DH talked to FOM's W and told her he certainly deserved one from FOM, as did I. DH hasn't brought it up in a long time, but I know it bothered him for a long time that FOM never had the decency to apologize. Especially after he pretended to be my DH's friend through all of this and in the end, IMO, he certianly owed him one.

My DH has always said FOM is such a coward and afraid if he does actually apologize to either of us he would have to take blame for his part, (something else he never did)

This subject (and OW bashing) will still make my blood boil if I let it. I try hard not to let it though.

OK, that's the end of my small rant.

LC

Good for you!

Apologies are given, not requested, demanded, or to be asked for. To want one is another story.

I agree your BH should of not added the remark in the last letter sent.

I think that your BH must also give you the right to approve any letter being sent as you must give him the right to approve the letter that you may have to send from this point out. Your BH has shown that his judgment is not 100%.

Fortunately you did the nice thing and apologized to the OMW and told her you would never interfere in her marriage again. You tried to ease her pain and give her some security back. Well done.

Unfortunately you or the OM do not deserve apologies from each other.

Why?

You were an adult that knew what you were doing was an affair. You freely chose to have your affair. You found ways to justify to yourself that what you were doing was ok.

Did the OM rape you, blackmail you, coerce you, force you, intimidate you?

The OM sold you on buying the affair.

Now you have buyers remorse. Whether as one buy's a lemon car, or let's a mortgage company sell you a bad loan. It's buyer beware.

The only thing you are correct in feeling and wanting to act on is that the OM used you and then threw you under the bus.

But what can you do to get even to the OM? Nothing. He has to face his spouse the way you have to face yours.

TheRoad,

Very well said. I especially like this part because it is so true.


L4,

I just thought of this. It seems to be a positive your DH is trying to look out for you.

LC

L4,

I've been a bit busy at work but have just looked at your recent updates and wanted to share with you these things that came to mind as I read.

I have noticed your helping others on the forums already. Your insight is valuable and your change in logic from just a matter of days ago is astounding. Do be certain that any advice you give lines up with Marriage Builders since that really is what we're all here for. Personal experience can't be replaced, but neither can sound methods.

Regarding church being full of hypocrites; Your husband's comment suggests that he doesn't understand what church is to be all about at all. (Assuming "church" means a Christian denomination of some sort here) Christianity isn't about doing right and wrong. It isn't about acting a certain way. Being a Christian doesn't mean being better than anyone else or even "good." The church is not full of "good" folks it is full of "forgiven" folks.

If we have to be good enough to be accepted by God, none of us can make the grade, we all fall woefully short. The only "good enough" is to be like Him and that is why He provides a way for His righteousness to by accounted to us.

So the church isn't full of good people or, better people (better than everyone is still not equal to God's requirements) or "moral" people or "ethical" people. It's just full of people and all people are sinners. Saints are just forgiven sinners...I could say a lot more but won't right now.

On to another topic...

Remember the feelings about how OM treated you and how it made you feel used. That can be your great contribution to these forums in days ahead. You know the reality of an affair.

When you are having an affair it feels like this other person is your soul mate, your true love and the perfect fit for you. But the "true undying love" that OM expressed during the affair was so quickly and effortlessly cast aside to throw you under the bus at the first sign of a threat from his wife. In fact she didn't even have to threaten him, just confront him and he abandoned you like left-over lunch found in the fridge in the break room at work...

This soul mate quickly showed his true colors as a liar and cheater, though you were able to believe him when he lied to you.

And now your husband is suffering and in agony over what happened to him but also over the pain you are experiencing. This man you felt so certain didn't care about you and were so sure didn't love you like OM did is now fighting against his own desire to forgive you because he thinks he should not because he's always told himself it was unforgivable. He hurts for his loss, but also for yours in all of this, and this was the one you planned to discard for OM, who tossed you aside like so much refuse at the first sign of trouble on a personal level.

Remember all of this, L4, not only for you and your future, but because THIS can maybe help others see the truth before they throw their lives away for a lie...

Enough rambling...back to work.

Mark

L4,

I have so much to say to you today. Sorry I didn't get it all in one message, but I kept thinking of things after I posted to you.


IMO, all of what you are feeling is part of the package. I felt the EXACT same way and even journalled about it back in 2005 and also talked it over with my therapist. She taught me skills I could use to help, but it took a long time for me to commit to doing what I needed. I really prolonged so much by doing many things wrong.

Don't let the anger take over like I did. Journal about how you are feeling and release it. I would suggest journaling then burning the pages. Eventually I figured out it was better to burn them than give them to my FOM. UGH, I embarassed myself over and over because we had not discovered MB's and although we thought we were doing a great job at NC we really stunk at it. One of the worst things I did was give him a closure letter that showed just how angry I was. I'm sure I looked like a total loon. I still have a copy of it in my journal and I was a total loon.

I know it's hard not to want to share the anger and such with your DH, but try not to do that either. My poor H had to listen to it all. I have no idea how he was able to do it. He would just tell me the only thing that mattered was we knew the truth and it didn't matter what FOM said or did.

Remember, just because you did something bad it does not define who you are. That person gets to remain in the past as you take the steps to make everything right.

Time will help with all of this.

LC

Only if chocolate is involved.

Good job on the pillow comment! Keep up the radical honesty. That and time will help regain trust.

Try and get some exercise, too. Lord knows it did wonders for me.

- Sh0cked

Geez, I love you guys. Just when I think I can't cry any more, I come here and the tears flow again. ...In a good way. Thanks.

I want to be helpful and will try to be careful. Reading others struggles/successes is helping a lot and I want to try to repay if/where appropriate for everything y'all have done for me.

You're so right, but I can't seem to get him to see this. He is very bitter about it all right now. Church has always been more "my" thing than his. But he has really embraced it since our son was born 7 years ago and I don't want him to lose his faith. I'm really worried about this and have been speaking to our pastor about it as well. I know my H is still praying (or so he tells me), but I don't want him to turn away from the church community that can be such a source of strength, grace, and comfort.

You put how he's feeling so eloquently. Thank you, Mark1952. I kind of got this, but not clearly until now. Very helpful. I'll do my best to remember this.

The journey continues...

I'm a little worried about some things. We're still very early in the post-confession timeline so maybe I shouldn't worry, but I'd like your experienced input.

My H says I can't see my therapist any more. At least not regularly like I was, once a week. Since I'm unemployed, he says we have to watch our money and we can't afford me doing this. He thinks therapy isn't of much use anyway (see earlier posts). But it's the therapy that helped me end the affair and start working on me and our marriage after all. I have self-esteem issues as it is. Should I just accept this and hope I can get through this aftermath -- the hardest thing I've ever done -- without my therapist? I'm talking to very close friends and my sisters and of course all of you, but was getting so much out of therapy.

Another thing... My H and I have been having the best talks since my disclosure. But the last two days he's reverted back to his communication tactics of interupting me, yelling at me, and thinking for me. What I mean by thinking for me is he'll say, "You did this because you think," or "You just feel that," or "You thought it was [okay/right/fine]..." He's also again doing this thing where he'll ask me a question but not accept my answer. If I don't give him the answer he projects is right, he'll shoot me down then answer for me. Example -- Today he asked if I bought the new swimsuits this last May for the FOM to see me in on a business trip. I actually got the suits after the infamous business trip where the PA took place. I told my H the truth -- that I bought the suits because I had lost 35 pounds and needed new ones that fit. My H said he's sure I got them for my FOM (who lives 2000 miles away). I assured him that no, I needed new swimsuits. I told him I'll produce my old one to show him how bad it was and headed to get it from our room. He walked away and said he knows it's because I wanted to show my body off to the FOM. ??? I had already admitted that an earlier shopping spree in April was conducted with seeing my FOM in mind, purchasing specific things for the FOM to see. So why would I lie about my May purchases? The fact is that the afternoon that I bought the suits, I modeled them for my H and we had some of the best s** we had had in a long time. I reminded him of that -- how I showed them to him first. I also reminded my H who has studied the timeline of the PA closely, that the FOM and I had no meetings in May nor after and the last time I saw the FOM was in April -- AFTER the suits purchase. So why did H even ask me? He didn't like my answer so interupted me and told me what "my" true answer was. This is one example, but he did this three times today.

Another thing he used to do often... We start a discussion that gets heated and he starts walking away or leaves all-together. Today he asked me a question. I was answering and he didn't believe my answer and started walking away while telling me I'm wrong. I told him if he wants to talk with me, he needs to stay with me to have the conversation. I'm not going to yell down the hall and down the stairs. He responded, "Well I can hear you just fine." I said, "But I can't see you and if you really want to talk bout this, let's talk face to face." He mumbled something then went into his office.

As horrible as the topic of my infidelity has been these past 12 days, we have been communicating so well -- practicing all the things we had been learning in MC and truly sharing thoughts and feelings. But these last two days, I'm seeing things reappear that I didn't like in my husband and that I don't like about our communication. Please tell me this will pass. I can't go backward again. And to remind you, my H refuses to return to MC.

L4,

Quite often initially it's 2 steps forward, 2 steps back. After time passes if you keep communicating and working the plan you will find you take more steps forward than back.

I have a suggestion for you. When things are calm talk to your H and ask him to help you come up with an idea on how you each should handle the situation of him walking out. If he still wants to do it, then he should know that will end the conversation for the time being and when he is ready to re-enter you can continue (or something like that). Perhaps he can announce he needs a break or whatever.

LC

L4, they call this a roller coaster for a reason. He will continue to experience a wide range of emotions - anger, desperation, vulnerability, bitterness, empathy, etc. The brain goes crazy trying to rationalize the recent events. As he is trying to come to grips with what happened, wires will get crossed.

There are those that made it through without counseling but they will tell you it was a tougher journey. Remind him how much therapy helps you deal with the horrible mistakes you have made. If you really cannot afford it, you have little choice. If, on the other hand, he is playing some sort of punishment game, you may want to insist.

You might suggest to your H a 30 minute time-out can be called by either of you. It is important that you both honor the hiatus at the other's request and imperative that conversation resumes after a cooling off period.

What you are going through now is likely the most difficult thing you have ever experienced. I would like to say that it will get easier but that takes time. Meanwhile, you admitted that there is progress - open up a pint of Ben and Jerry's, marvel at the wisdom of Lennie Briscoe, and take care of yourself. You need to muster your strength for this marathon.

- Sh0cked

This is getting to be very difficult. I have no motivation for working out. I used to work out 5 - 6 days a week. It's been three weeks since I've done so. I can't sleep and I'm eating junk. I sit, lament, and wait for the next question or round of justified anger to come from my H. I know this isn't helping me and I have to turn it around. But it's hard...

Hi L4,

Everyone is giving you superb marital advice so I'll mention this personal aspect of your posts.

If you're interested in possibly being a part of a healthy habit email support group (just me and a few other MB ladies), let me know via post and we'll figure out a way to exchange email addresses. It's a very casual group....I think we've collectively lost about 500 pounds in the last year or so......only problem is that we've gained 600 during the same time....just kidding LOL.

Ace

looking4

"I used to work out 5 - 6 days a week. It's been three weeks since I've done so. I can't sleep and I'm eating junk. I sit, lament"

You need to keep working out and eat no more junk. Do not let yourself go. You need to keep yourself healthy. Exercise produces endorphins, which give one's body a natural high. Thus you get to keep fit, healthy, and give yourself a natural mood lift. Why let your appearance and health go to hell. Besides, why give your BH a chance to complain that you only worked out to look good for the OM. I'm sure there is no truth to that last sentence but why give your BH ammunition.

"At least not regularly like I was, once a week. Since I'm unemployed, he says we have to watch our money and we can't afford me doing this. He thinks therapy isn't of much use anyway (see earlier posts). But it's the therapy that helped me end the affair and start working on me and our marriage after all"

I don't know what can't afford means. Is the mortgage not getting paid? Are the utilities going to get shut off? Are the car's going to get repossessed? Is the family going in worn out clothes and to bed hungry?

Or can't afford means no eating out in restaurants, no major vacations, no going to movies?

Tell/remind BH that therapy ended your affair, and you still need it to continue healing. That not all healing takes place with a scalpel or medicine. If money is tight. You can go every other week to ease the strain. Then you tell him you need this help so you can get stable enough to find a new job.

"tactics of interrupting me, yelling at me, and thinking for me" So don't let him bait you. Bite your tongue.

As to the swimsuit issue. He will want to believe what he wants at this point. Yes you bought them because you needed them. Yes you modeled them for him first.

But did you wear them for the OM?

What else did you buy for you to wear use with the OM?

Do you still have these things bought that you wore, used for the OM?

I was working out before the affair, and continued it diligently after. I know what you're saying though.

The FOM never saw me in the swimsuits.

Before I went on the business trip where I knew I was going to see the FOM (but didn't expect we'd be together), I bought generic stuff. Nothing specifically bought for him. It was everyday clothes that I bought because of my weight loss and because it was my birthday. I worked from home and lived in sweats so I got a couple pairs of jeans, a coat, and some underclothing. I know what you're thinking about the underclothing and yes, I fantasized that perhaps my FOM would see it and like it, but I didn't buy it for him. (I'll spare you the discussion on what happens with bras when a bunch of weight is lost.) In fact, I was hoping maybe my H would notice me if I was wearing something other than white cotton stuff. The planned agenda on that business trip wasn't going to allow my FOM and I to ever be alone together, between the meetings and scheduled group outings. ...And believe me, we were looking for holes in it where we might be able to get away from the group. It was his hometown so he was sleeping at his house, I at a girlfriend's. When the FOM and I ended up together physically in a car in a parking lot, I was actually wearing my ratty old underclothing.

The reason I asked is that BH's hate the objects that their WW wore when with the OM. They need something to project their hate on.

So maybe you could show your BH the items you wore and then throw them out. It's decootying your closet so to speak.

Also if you got any gifts you could do the same with them.

One of the many challenges is that he will continue to be on a witch hunt. He will believe what he wants to believe and nothing other than total honesty over a long period of time will help. It will still be quite a while before he is able to let even the smallest things go.

Do try and get some exercise, L4. In fact, try and encourage your H to go with you. Gyms can be meat markets (my W met her OM there) so having him with you can help provide reassurances that you are not on the prowl. I still highly recommend racquetball; you can enjoy a cardio workout and get to hit things.

Ummm... As athletic as I am, ping pong is about as good as I can get with a racquet-type sport. I see your point though, Sh0cked. I will get back on it. We have a treadmill, work out tapes, and weight center in our home so no gym necessary. Just the impetus to get off my backside.

As for the gifts, my FOM never gave me any. And all pictures, notes, emails, and anything else were deleted/destroyed long ago -- well before my H knew anything. I did that for my own sanity.

I get this, but then why does my H even ask me? He used to do this all the time -- ask me a question but not accept my answer. It's his M.O. So while it makes sense that he does not trust me at all now, why does he bother asking a question if my answer (in his eyes) isn't going to be the truth anyway?

Is it a test? Does he have his own insecurities and he is seeking some sort of validation? Perhaps it is even a kind of controlling behavior. One thing is sure - he is less likely to believe you now than he was before. As the wounds of infidelity heal, his behaviors that contributed to your unhappiness in the marriage will need to be addressed. MC would be a perfect place to discuss this when and if you can get him to go.

Can you talk him into exercise with you? It would do him a world of good and an routine shared might bring you closer together. Dr. Harley sets the bar at 15 hours per week.