I've mentioned this site to him twice now. He says he doesn't need books, discussion forums, therapy, websites, or anyone else to tell him how to fix his/our problems. He's okay with me doing my thing. He's never asked exactly what I divulge here. And I haven't offered other than to say Dr. H and the boards have been a great source of help these past several months and especially since my disclosure. He seems fine with that.

If you had a toothache would you see a dentist? If you had conjunctivitis, would you see your PCP? If you broke your ankle, would you go to the ED? Mental health is just as important as physical health.

I say it would not be a violation but an IC would be just the ticket. You are married; the money is 1/2 yours and I wouldn't call therapy an extravagant expense.

Antidepressants are not addictive. There is no weakness in helping control the imbalance of serotonin in your brain. In fact, it is weaker to wish it away or ignore it than to treat it. I am glad you are going - you will be too.

Well, you probably have an idea of what they are not:

• mopey
• clingy
• codependent
• introverted
• miserable

For gosh sakes, L4, you write this about the OM:I am willing to bet your H liked that about you too.

Try to be more upbeat. Have fun. I know you are a wreck on the inside but project confidence and spirit. Remind him that your smile can light up a room. Heck yes, be there for him. He will let you know how much he will accept. But be there for you too.

Minimize the R talks and only talk about the A if he brings it up first.

Is he still out of town? Can you surprise him with something special upon his return? I am sure the kids would love to be involved - make a banner and tape it visible from the front door. Occasionally send him upbeat text messages while he is away.

I just sent H a text message. He gets home late Thursday. Thanks for the pep talk, Sh0cked.

Something I haven’t shared yet here… My H and I have been making the most amazing love since my confession. It is the strangest thing. SF is definitely one of my top ENs and was something my H didn’t seem to really care about. I remember a big fight last spring where he said perhaps he’ll just have to get Viagra because he doesn’t want it like I do and doesn’t understand why I can’t understand that. Since we started drifting apart 5 years ago, we would go literally months without sex. Since I started being more vocal about my need for it last December or so, we got it up to about 2 to 3 times a month. Better in quantity, but when it happened, it usually was over quickly, no cuddling, no foreplay – none of the affection that I like to go with it.

But since I told him about the PA… The first time we had been up for 4 hours talking, just 4 days after my confession. He crawled into the guest bed with me and we held each other. Then he started coming on to me and I didn’t know what to make of it. He kept stating over and over that he didn’t know why he was doing this. I stopped him and said, “Then don’t.” But he said he really wanted too. We’ve been together about 6 times since. Every time it was initiated by him. And I’ve been swept away by it.

But there’s another side to it. Once we’re done – whether it’s 20 minutes later or the next morning, he’ll state that I have to understand that his coming on to me can’t give me any hope. His advances and time with me are not to give me false expectations that we’re going to stay together.

I’ve told H numerous times that if he has any regrets about our intimacy, please tell me and I’ll do my part to make sure we don’t get into a position where it’s going to happen. With everything we’re going through I don’t want to confuse him or us. I know for me one moment I’m feeling utterly connected to my H in the most intimate way, then shortly afterward he’s back to ignoring me, being angry, calling me names, or crying from hurt.

It seems that in all of this we’re living the ultimate expressions of best and worst between a couple. I've read dozens of posts on this website and I tend to see more that a BS wants little to no physical interation with their WS -- not the opposite that we're experiencing. Is what's happening here in any way normal?

You're not just "a couple". You're a couple in early recovery.

And NOTHING you've written about your recovery (so far) is out of the ordinary.

You're doing fine and things you've said you are are worried about are average for your time line.

Antidepressants are not addictive (no street value!). Anti-D's saved my sanity during recovery. Once you find one that works for you, stay on it at least 6-12 months.

Our recovery sex life took off like a sky rocket (like yours) - and most of it was angry sex - but it was still good

When he tells you making love with you does not mean he is promising anything - it is a message to himself that he can still choose to leave you if he needs to. But, with every sex act that is (WOW) his heart is drawn closer to you. It's a painful joy for him.

Have as much sex as he wants. It's good for the recovery - even if he's angry afterwards.

A couple of suggestions here.

First, try filling out the ENQ as if you were him. You've been together long enough to have a pretty good idea about how he thinks and even how he feels on much of it.

Secondly, don't give up on him ever filling out the ENQ. You are still very early in the process. If you can figure out enough of what he needs and accomplish it over time so that he begins to feel real commitment to the relationship again, it might be possible to bring the ENQ up again. But you have to do it so that you are helping him get what he wants and not presenting it as a way to help you, if that makes any sense. He has to buy it as you doing for him or he won;t see much point in it.

Also if you put the rest of MB into practice for a while and can show him that it does work, he might be able to let down his guard about the rest a little.

Now keep in mind that I'm not talking about next week here, or even next month. This will take a lot longer than you think it should. You will still be dealing with this over a year from now and that is if he is on board with recovery.

As for your more recent question...

A honeymoon period is not uncommon at all. Even before I got a commitment to NC from my wife (in our case OM lived 400 miles away and she couldn't actually see him) it was like we were teenagers again....It was anywhere, any time for a month or so. I'd say we averaged about 10 times per week for about 5 or 6 weeks. :MrEEk: Of course at our age, we both knew we couldn't keep that pace up for long. :crosseyedcrazy: So then it slowed down to a more reasonable pace and then after I got sick and we dealt with that for about 6 months we were back to the old once a month whether either of us wants it or not routine... (This actually has more to do with having a house full of people than anything, BTW since DD is here with her daughter and DS is now living in the basement - so glad I paid all that money so he could get a degree...His pizza delivery skills are so much better than before he went to school for 4 years... )

Now I'm going to take you to the tool shed for a minute.

This pissed me off when I read it. (you wrote this on another thread in GQII):




Is everyone you know a totally unforgiving jerk?
Apparently so ..... This is a backhanded insult to those who love you, and as such needs be pointed out to you.

You really need those anti-depressants.

I am married to a man who had a 2 year romantic EA/PA - and trust me, he is NOT "forever" labeled a liar and a cheater. If he said this, I'd be pissed off at him, because it would be a statement of his opinion that I am unable to forgive.

It's called Hysterical Bonding. A need to reconnect, bond, reclaim what was their's.
Does not happen to everyone but HB is quite common. Usually lasts for awhile, sometimes for six month's.

Move back to the same bed. Initiate some on your own.

Thanks for the chuckle, Mark.

I have phenomenal support with my family, my best friend, and even my H's mother. My sister said pretty much the same just last night, Pepperband. And you're both right. Hard when your H calls you these things repeatedly. I know he's hurt and it's coming from anger and pain, but it's coming nonetheless and it's been difficult looking at life beyond the moment. Working on it though. And the ADs are coming. No shame there any more.

I'll do anything to stay away from your tool shed going forward. I don't like it in there.

I have a loud bark and a soft bite

Here is some recovery activity you may want to try.

Compliment and brag about your husband to other people. Especially to other people who gossip.

"My sweetie just melts my butter."
"I just can't wait to get home and have H's arms around me."
"H is just about the cutest guy ever when he's in his jeans."
"H is just so smart, he amazes me every day."

I mean lay it on THICK and STICKY. Go overboard bragging about H to others.
To his mom. To his friends. To your kids' teachers. To the car mechanic. To your neighbor. To the kids. Everyone you meet. Make some passing remark about how much you admire H.

Plant those seeds of admiration all over the place.

"Hey Fred, you wife said the nicest thing about you the other day."
"Huh? :MrEEk: Really?"

Right after SF - admiration is usually number 2 EN of many men.

Fill his tank - it will eventually dampen his anger.

I've never had a problem talking openly about how attractive I find my H -- in various situations from skiing on the slopes or just standing in line at the grocery store. I don't know that I've offered my thoughts to strangers like our mechanic or my kids' teachers, but I'll try to work on that. Thanks.

Stinkin' awesome. Oh, L4, I know it doesn't feel like it but you are doing so well. Progress is measured in weeks or months not days...

kewl

L4,

I've never had a problem talking openly about how attractive I find my H -- in various situations

Also feed back to him the times your friends have said he's handsome or good looking etc, major ego booster.

In a conversation the other day on attractiveness I could name 100 or so people who have said my wife was good looking, hot or beautiful, or even tried to pick up my wife while I was standing there. My wife said no one had ever said the same about me, yet she perceives herself as equal to me, sigh.

God Bless
NJ

Tell him that therapy is not an expense. It is an investment. Doing the therapeutic work now will make you healthier/your marriage healthier so that you will not have to battle similar storms in the future.

Sort of like maintenance/diagonostic/repair work on a vehicle.

Some maintenance has to be done on regular basis. Sometimes, while doing maintenance, they find something that needs to be repaired. Then you have to fix that item if you want the car to run optimally.

K... Got my anti-Ds today. And made an appointment with my IC for Tuesday. I agree it's important that I keep my mental health in check. This is important. Thanks for knocking that into my head, everyone.

Now if I could just get the physical in check too. I'll work on getting back on that treadmill next.

Last night my H and I signed up for an IM service so we could chat online while he's working on the road. The conversation was caring, direct, and honest. He again asked tough questions, but the demeanor and tone of his questions were calm:
* He is worried about me and how I'm getting through this.
* He told me that my sorries don't stick with him. He hopes they mean something to him someday, but they still mean nothing to him. He knows I believe I'm sorry, but he can't accept my apologies.
* He wished he was sitting next to me talking with me, instead of 800 miles away. He wanted to be with me.
* He said he thinks I wanted something or someone else from the early stages of our relationship and that he was just a safe harbor -- not what I really wanted or needed.
* He said he wants to help me sort out how I could love him yet have an affair, something so counter to who I am and how I otherwise have lived my life.
* Said if he was an objective outsider looking at what I've done -- pre-M and recently 13+ years into our M -- he believes I'm not happy with my decision to marry him. He said he truly believes that I chose to settle with him. I may have loved him but he thinks I wasn't supposed to marry him.
* He talked again about how he has this inner voice that he has chosen not to listen to when it comes to me because he loved me too much. But the voice told him years ago that we shouldn't get married, which is why it took him so long to propose. (We knew each other 11+ years before we wed.) The voice is again telling him to leave me.
* He knows he needed me more than I ever needed him.

Throughout I kept telling him that I did and do love him. That I married him because I knew our life was meant to be together -- he's the one.

The conversation ended well, in supportive and caring comments.

Time has passed and he's on a plane coming home now. But I've been thinking... What if he's right and when it came to the biggest decision of my life -- whom I'm going to spend the rest of my life with -- I didn't know what I was doing?

Is this kind of thinking from him good or bad? Is he done? I know you can't answer for him. This is more me thinking outloud through my fingertips about where he is. It's like he's trying to make peace with the fact that maybe we aren't supposed to be together. And that saddens me so much.

Hey L4,

I'm just checking in and saw the last few days of posting here on your thread. Have a couple of thoughts for you.

1. Your kids. I think advice from folks will be all over the place about this and ultimately only you and your H can decide between the two of you exactly how to handle this. I'd suggest that since you don't fall into the category of needing to expose (because NC has been established) that you hold off on making a decision to tell them until things settle down. We're going through some issues with our kids right now, so maybe I'm not the one to give out advice, though!

What we told our kids was that Dadda had hurt Mamma's feelings and that we both love them and that will never change. Dadda is saying he's sorry and fixing his mistake, but sometimes Mamma feels sad or angry at Dadda. No further details unless they asked (and they have) or if something needed to be divulged for some specific reason (and it has). Don't underestimate what they already know, though. Dr. Spock says to think about what you assume your child knows (about anything) and then double that at least.

2. Anti-depressants. Good for you. I was just diagnosed with a hormonal imbalance and just taking B-6 for my mood makes me feel like a new person. You DO need to deal with what you have done and the fallout from it. You DON'T need to do it with a chemical imbalance making it harder.

3. Sex. Yay for you! We went through the same thing and I felt like a total freak wanting my H so much after what he'd done to me. I'm glad I did, though, because it established again in my mind the 'married-ness' of our relationship. It lasted for us about 6 weeks and then faded, but it served a really good purpose in bringing us at least physically closer.

4. The questionnaire. I'd just tell your H that even though HE might not need help from therapists, etc. (after all, he was doing all the right things before D-day, right?), YOU need help. Explain that you no longer trust your own ability to see truth and the right path and that his filling out the questionnaire will help YOU to make sense of things again. Just a thought. Same deal with your seeing the IC. You've been so eloquent here about how you can't get a handle on HOW you could have been that person who did those things.....when you relied on your own judgement it led nowhere good.....you need help resetting your ability to make good decisions.

5. About marrying in the first place. You can go around and around and around with this all day long. What you DID decide was to marry him. You then decided to have a family with him. And now you are deciding to continue to be with him. What you were 'supposed' to do with your life becomes irrelevant in the actual living of it, and your choices are more powerful than your supposed 'destiny'. I'm a Harry Potter fan and I love what Rowling has to say about the power of life choices in the difference between Voldemort and Harry: Voldemort was destined to be in Slytherin and accepted destiny's path; Harry had that destiny, too, if he chose to take it, but he chose Gryffindor instead. Ditto the whole 'investing the prophesy with power' storyline. (Nerd moment over)

By the way, I hope you did understand what SugarCane was trying to do in drawing a fictionalized (and all-too-based-in-fact) rendition of what a BS thinks as D-day crashes over her/him. The facts may be different, but the idea is the same: what one believed to be true and real and solid is now no longer real, true or solid. Whether or not the betrayer 'bad-mouthed' the betrayed, the betrayed will think it happened. The betrayed will never know all the details of every intimate conversation, there will always be nightmares about what did get said, and there will always be a fear that THAT intimate conversation was somehow more real that the one going on now, if that makes any sense. SHE is the victim here. (I'm not sure I made SC's comments any clearer, mostly I wanted to voice support; it was a great post)

By the way, it takes a long time for the betrayed to realize that the A WAS NOT ABOUT HIM/HER. I had this pounded in to me by some good folks here many times. In my experience of the days just after d-day, it was incomprehensible to me that my WH's actions were not somehow directed specifically against me. I had not checked out of the marriage as he had; my mind was always on what was happening between us, good or bad, and it took a loooooooooooong time to understand that he just stopped thinking about me before the A. It was never about me. It will take your H a while to get that, too, I think.

Hope his homecoming is happy. Make him feel wanted and welcome.....even if you don't get immediate results, remind yourself that you are making an investment in the furure of your marriage and family.

Thinking of you lots,
Gwen

PS: Mark, I laughed at your comment about the college degree. After my senior recital (music major), Dad asked me what I planned to do with my very expensive training in party-planning and execution. I still give very good parties, but I also, finally, teach music 10 years after the degree.....have hope!

Thank you for checking in, M2B, and for your sound perspective. As always, your insights (as well as those of everyone else) are very much appreciated. I'm grateful for your continued support in my H's and my journey, I do understand where SC was coming from and it was was helpful, and I am willing to give my H the time he needs to process. I can be impatient and that is so unfair to H as he goes through this. I've had months to process what I've done coupled with the fact that I was not the victim. I can't put a timeline on my H. Y'all may have to remind me of that now and then.

We learned that H's step-mother has moved out and she and H'-s father are separating. (My FIL's 3rd marriage.) That's adding to my H's stress and to our concerns about our kids. They really love their step-Gma and this will be hard for them. And we haven't even talked with them yet about our problems. (Oyvey!)

H got home last night and after a nice hug, he avoided me. He made himself a snack, watched a little TV with me then shut himself in his office. He's been in our bedroom, sleeping and resting virtually all day. And tomorrow morning he leaves for the weekend for a family thing with his dad and brothers. (Harumph) We're getting no time together. I don't want to hover and be in his face, but I don't want him to be away. I've told him this but he says he needs to get away. I'm worried because this was one of our problems in our relationship -- not spending enough time together. I guess I'm unsure when I should push for together time and when I need to give him his space.

Wish I was a mind-reader...