Good, I hope she will.

That's excellent about talking to the Harleys! Be sure and come back and tell us what they advised you.

Talked with MIL and she agreed that she would not tell him about my posting here or about the site. I just cried and cried afterwards because all of this just hurts so bad.
Got email back from WH, he states that he is not going to end relationship with OW and would I let him go so he can be my "loving friend" and a "loving father."
Today is going to be a dark day...Can't stop crying already...

Ok, stopped crying for now, after many many painful emails from WH.
He filled out EN questionaire and I was totally surprised by answers:
1. Family committment
2. Honesty and Openess
3. Affection
4. Conversation
5. Domestic support
Are these often skewed in fog? How ironic that his top two are the two he has violated so fully! I thought admiration and SF would be here, since his affair seemed to focus on those. The honesty and openess one is directly related to finances and how he feels about our debt and my spending habits -- something I have tried to talk about with him in counseling, but he just says its both of our problem.
How do I meet some of these with him being gone and right on his way to a divorce?
BF439

That is weird. I'm surprised about the 1st two also, but WS are all over the map.

What time do you talk to the Harleys? Be sure and tell them about the EN questionnaire. Take notes!

I think his answers are a bit skewed because of the affair.

Work on everything that he complained about BEFORE the affair. If it is spending habits, get a handle on that right away. Dave Ramsey and Susie Orman have great programs to help.

Don't discuss anything with your MIL - they are notorious for not being very supportive. You can be friendly, but don't discuss your marriage, her son, or your plans.

Try to stop the crying. You need to start working the program here.

His answers are almost funny, sorry, but its true. His top needs are family committment and honesty, so he has an affair with a bisexual, serial cheating Ho, and leaves his 3 kids and his wife.

I spewed my coffee on that one.

I can definitely work on the finances piece and how it relates to honesty. That will serve us well regardless. I think some of his EN are skewed, but some are probably right on.
I will post after my conversation with the Harleys and let everyone know how it went.
I thik you are right about MIL. Not only is she very concerned about her son and dealing with her feelings about him, she is most concerned about the kids. I think what hurts about that is sort of the assumption that WH has made his decision, so now its up to me to be the bigger person for the kids. How about he is the bigger person and lets go of his need to be with OW and really works on marriage for sake of kids?!!?
Pisses me off that I'm the one who needs to "move on." Why doesn't anyone push him to "step back?!!"
BF439

STOP listening to others who don't understand! Or as one of my favorite posters on MB likes to say:



Stop. Take a deep breath. Get your bearings. Call the Harleys. Take notes. Come back here and let's get this show on the road. We're here for ya.

He is lying. His affiar his based on SF and Admiration (or maybe affection) so I would almost guarantee those are at the top. If FC was #1, he could never leave the family. My guess is that he is trying to look good for your MIL.

I had my appointment with Steve Harley and it was very helpful. He sort of gave me "script" of how to say what I want to say and see if WH will talk with him. I'm not sure how that will go, but WH agreed to talk tonight.
I'm nervous that I won't be able to be matter-of-fact enough and that I will melt in a pool of tears. I just have to stick to the script and be a broken record. That's all I need to accomplish today, so I will try to stay focused on that and not look too far into the future.
BF439

Maybe you can practice here. Hopefully you are starting to see that your HUSBAND is the one not making any sense. Try not to take it personally, maybe think of him as a drug addict trying to get his fix.

bf,

Follow Steve's script, and do your very best not to break down. If you EVER had to be a good actress, this is the time!

Keep in mind, though, that he is full-blown wayward right now, and will be spewing fog babble at an alarming rate. Do NOT respond to anything off the wall that he will say. Have an all-purpose line ready for comeback...example: "I am not interested in divorce. I am standing for our marriage." Did Steve give you any pointers on addressing babble?

Anybody else got ideas on deflecting fog babble? I know Orchid had a fabulous thread on "reverse babble," but I was never able to master it. How about some others' one-line responses to the goofy things their waywards said during this awful time?

Right Here Waiting

Great! Look great (smile, confident - you're now a lady with a plan).

I think reverse babble goes something like this:

Him: I've been unhappy for a long time.
You: Yes, long is relative.

Him: You never listen to me.
You: Yes, listening is good.

Him: She really makes me happy.
You: Yes, I understand happiness.

Him: It's over between us.
You: Yes, we have been over this.

Him: I don't love you.
You: Shaking your head yes. Hmmm.

See? He's saying the same things 1000s of WS say every day. You just respond with kind of non-sensical things.

Thanks, all of you! I will practice the script and I am already picking up the house, which fits one of his EN.
I am nervous, though, because what he says is so hurtful. I think he will agree to talk to Harley's for my sake, though, so hopefully we can start a different conversation soon.
And the oscar goes to.....BF439!!!!!

His talk is hurtful, but please realize that he is not himself. That should help you.

The Harleys do very well with waywards.

Remember, bf, what he's saying is coming from a brain that is currently addled with fantasy! As it is often put here, you are dealing with an alien, not the man you have known as your husband.

EXPECT him to say goofy and/or hurtful things.

Respond calmly, but with equally goofy remarks, as just advised. DO NOT respond with anger or any love-busting statements. If you do, you will be shooting yourself in the foot -- after all, isn't your immediate aim to get him to talk to Steve? Think he'll agree to do that if you jump all over him, argue or love bust?

One step at a time. Patience.

Here's the latest post from WH.

"Ok-we can talk. But I'm telling you now, just to set expectations, that we're getting a divorce. I accept that it's my doing, not yours. I take all the blame.

I do not want to meet if you have any expectations that doing so will lead me to change my mind or consider other options that merely prolong the inevitable and delay your healing (and mine-I've got plenty of issues...), or our getting on with our lives. If these are your expectations, please tell me now."

Thoughts???

Oh dear, he is foggy.

I would write back that I don't want a divorce. But it would be very helpful for my recovery if he would talk to the Harleys. Tell him that you married him for life, and this is tough to get used to.

Thank him for helping you understand, blah, blah, blah.

But leave out the blah, blah, blah part.

So here's my plan for today, since that is as far as I can get anymore!
We are going to talk outside the home and here's the script I will follow:
Me: I have a question for you and I don't want you to jump to any conclusions about what it means. The question is would you say it the ideal scenario for each parent to be truly in love with children's other parent? More specifically, would the ideal scenario for you to be truly in love with the mother of your children.
Then I have some ideas how to respond when he says, it won't/can't happen, etc. Just wouldn't that be ideal, yes or no?
Then, I share with him that I talked with someone who had me thinking about the whole situation differently. A person who had an interesting angle about how one recovers from an affair, and that he and I may need to consider that we don't know everything about this. That he talked about some things I hadn't yet considered.
Would you do me a favor to talk to this person, a coach, not a counselor, to help with my healing? It would help him (WH)better understand what I am going through and what I need to move forward.
By committing to talk with this coach, he commits to nothing re: the marriage, only commits to helping me. Once you hear what he has to say, maybe you can let me know what I am missing. Help me better understand what my blind spots are.

What do you think??
Any and all feedback would be really helpful!
BF439