Ok, so WH emails tonight about some finacial stuff and says he's talked with community mediators and that they can help with finances, parenting, etc!!!!
I replied that I do not desire a divorce, nor a dissolution and that if mediation is to help with details of the separation, fine. I reiterated that I cannot support his actions or the affair. I also stated that I still believe that there is a solution where we all can be happy, if he would be willing to explore the ideal scenario.
Steve said he would start making moves, but I did not expect so soon!
Is this what I do? I do not want to meet with mediators!!
Help!!!!
BF439

bf,

Are you planning a legal separation? Is the "mediation" WH is talking about for a divorce? If you want neither of these things, don't go. He can't MAKE you. (Ha Ha. You can't make him...he can't make you either.)

Is this the kind of moves Steve said he would make? Moves toward divorce?

If you don't want a divorce, and that is where the mediation WH is talking about is heading, don't do it. Stall as long as you still want the marriage. But it will probably make WH mad. So what? He's already told you he doesn't love you. Why make it easy for him to formalize it?

Sounding like Plan B should be coming soon. Once you are no longer meeting ANY of his needs, it will only hasten the implosion of the A, because OW can't meet the needs you provide, even if the only thing right now is that you have a shared history, shared children, etc.

Besides, I hear you getting very tired. Very emptied of love bank balance. At the very least, I would minimize contact with him for a while. Otherwise, you will have NO love left for him and at some point will happily give him his divorce.

I asked earlier, "What does bf need right now?" Sounds like you need time away from the drama. Trust yourself and take some.

I survived an 18-month Plan A. I don't recommend it, but what got me through was occasional flights away for a few days at a time. Replenishment with dear friends who sympathized and supported me. Time with my grown kids, who ministered to me like angels.

Take what you need for sustenence now. For your own sake.

(((bf)))

Right Here Waiting

Thanks, RTW, I do feel stronger every day, especially in regards to not agreeing to what WH wants. I don't beleive he's made a healthy decision re: our marriage or family since the affair started and I certainly don't think that what he is doing now is the only or best solution.
Also, I don't desire a seperation or divorce, so I guess I don't need to go to a mediator, do I! I think I can just take care of me and the kids as long as I can and if I desire to end this marriage I will make that clear.
I do get tired, but the responses here help soooo much!
Thank you all!
BF439

I've got two posts going and I'm not sure if thats a good thing. This is sort of the history, where I am in general post and the other is, I think all about the fog...
Feeling stronger every day, actually got work done today! I have plans for myself and continue to take care of me and the kids. I think I'm coming off the high of saying "no" about the mediation -- it sounds so reasonable (which is his goal, I think to sound reasonable, but you can't make selfish and crazy antyhing but what it is!) but its not if you do not desire a divorce! So, why would I go to one -- It would only support his affair!
Anyway, that's my update tonight. I plan to make a nice fire and I ordered pizza with what I like on it and I might even paint my toes! I mean toenails...
I think I'll pop in on some other threads and catch up on other's inspiring progress!
BF439

BF,
I have never posted to you before but I've been following your posts and I have to say, that I think your handling this very well. It's really not fair that you are having to go thru this or atleast that is how I felt. You are getting excellent advice from the pros and I can see from your first post up until today, you have come a long way. Keep your chin up and taking care of yourself. I pray that things get better for you and regardless of how this turns out, my opinion is your going to be in a better place.

Best of luck to you and keep us posted.

Thanks, msgreeneyes! I can't believe how far I have come since June. I'm even getting my appetite back, just this week! I know I have a long road ahead of me and know a likely outcome is that I will lose WH in this process, but I'm starting to come to terms with that. If he is unwilling to truly understand and compensate for what he has done then he is an unsafe person to me, just as if he were physically abusive. And, come on, how is having an affair not emotionally abusive? Physically if you count possible STD's (my test came back neg, btw) and the physical symptoms that come with being heartbroken (30 lbs lost in 10 weeks.
It's just been a blessing to begin really seeing the affair and its fall-out is all about him and not something I did. Yes, there were things I could (and would) do differently in the marriage, but the choice to have an affair and not work on the marriage was all about him and he'll have to do the work to repair the damage he's done. If he truly wants to do that, I'll be the first one to support him!
BF439

OK, just saw my first Husband-giving-wife-suprise-jewlery-Xmas commercial. Want to so cry... Even tho WH still calls me, "Hon" it doesn't mean the same thing. Think I might have a good cry tonight anyway.
I'll check in the morning - -I'm sure there will be lots of great support, but Xmas commercial and what's gone is just gonna make me cry...
BF439

Still in a funk today! It was really hard to have the kids away all night and I got really stuck on the idea that I am looking at being all alone for half my week for a long time! I'm so used to having the kids and WH and now, boom, alone while he's with our kids.
I missed them so much last night! I don't know how he has been away from them so much the last three months.
Question: I know WH is still in contact with OW-- should I continue to reinforce to her that everytime she has contact it is hurtful or should I just let it go. O course WH wants me to promise not to contact her or her family or any of their professional contacts, because of how it "hurts me."
Also another post on the Divorcing forum really got me down -- it's novembergirl and she is an OW and it sounded so much like my situation that I about got sick. It hurts so much to hear an OW talk about her affair to a married man like it is totally ok! No remorse on her part...
BF439

bf,

It's clear that you are riding the roller coaster--exhilarated one day because of the strength and clarity you've shown; exhausted and discouraged the next because it hasn't broken up the A.

This is normal. We've ALL gone through it, some longer than others.

The trick is to know when you're really running on empty. At which point, you deliver a Plan B letter, after planning carefully for how you will handle things once Plan B is in place. I've not done it myself, but there's lots of help here for that, so stick around and take it all in.

I don't see any point in you making further contact with OW. She's as "out to lunch" as your H at the moment, and you have no reason to care if she ever does. It's your WH whose love must be resurrected, via Plan A (which you've done beautifully) and Plan B, which it looks like you're going to need.

I can't remember, but it sounds like you have not exposed to OW's family?

"WH wants me to promise not to contact her or her family or any of their professional contacts..."

You MUST, of course, tell EVERYONE connected to both A partners what is going on. Have you?

And please don't torture yourself reading trash from unrepentant OWs. Whether or not YOUR OW is EVER repentant makes no difference. When the A thrill wears off for your WH (probably during Plan B), it's only HIS repentance you need. (Of course, it IS possible that SHE will tire of HIM first and give him the boot. It happens sometimes.)

Hang in there, girl, and monitor your heart. If the roller coaster yields to a strech of time where your heart goes cold, get into Plan B before all the love is gone.

Right Here Waiting

I am on a rollercoaster and I get so discouraged when I have a low day!
I have exposed to OW's family (her mom, who was very unsupportive of the affair -- re: WH: "He will never be welcome into this family after what he's done to his wife and kids" WH was really pissed to hear that.
Of course, that may not end up being the reality, but it was nice to have her support.
I also exposed to her work / his work and all of my and WH's family. I'm not sure who else there is.
Thanks for the advice about contacting OW -- I really only want to do that when I feel low or see my kids hurting and I want to lash out at her, but your right, she won't "get it". At one point, WH asked that if I want to communicate with her, I send the email to him?! Now that I think about that, that pisses me off, too! This was on the heels of 10/25 exposure and she was apparently afraid I would come to her work or house. I guess she was even afraid of that this summer after a terrific fight WH and I had. What makes me so mad is that it allows her to play herself off as a victim of my anger and that WH needs to protect her!!!!
Ok, that really needed to be written out for me to see how I was feeling about it. I still have so much anger at her for what she did, with her knowing the whole time how wrong it was, but not caring at all.
BF439

Every single word in your last post proves you are...normal.

Of course you're pissed with OW and her callousness. Of course you're pissed (and stressed) about WH's betrayal and continued selfishness. Of course you want to deliver her (and him) a 2x4 because of what she's (they've) done to you and your family.

WH is obviously still foggy (send emails to OW through him? Ex-CUSE me?)

Normal, normal, and yes--normal! We've ALL experienced those things! And we've all dealt with the stupidities that come out of our WS mouths, for months and months and months on end. It's enough to unwrap the most tightly wrapped among us. Most of us maintain our sanity. I KNOW you will be one of them.

But you must take care of you. You deserve it. And if you don't, who will really be there for your kids?

Just consider how much more of this you can take before you'll need to make YOURSELF your top priority. YOU are more important than even your marriage. You ARE. Do not spend your last ounce of energy Plan A-ing beyond your capacity. Check your love levels over the next few days. See if you can get a read. Got enough reserves to go on? Then go on. If not, back off and take care of YOU.

(((bf)))

Right Here Waiting

It is so helpful to hear that I am normal, because my life feels as unnormal as ever!
Does plan A have the same impact if I am reducing contact with him? I'm attempting no LB's, but I really don't desire to be around him enough to meet any needs. Maybe I'm just on the downswing of my rolloercoaster after some much hope from last weekend.
Schoolbus gave me lots of things to think about on my other post re: his last email. Maybe, I can respond to some of those "cracks" she saw while still taking care of myself.
I plan to repaint the bedroom this weekend. I think it will be lovely when its done and I don't have to ask anyone about the color!
BF439

bf,

Yes, it's normal. But that doesn't mean it feels good. *sigh*

I just went and checked out your other thread, and I see the same thing Schoolbus sees in her post at the top of page 3.

I agree with her because I see my FWH in it. After the explosion of D-Day and all the subsequent pain, he really believed things had gone too far to ever hope for recovery. I got the standard lines, "Too much has happened," "I can't help my feelings, the flame has died for us," "I was already done before the A," etc, etc, etc.

I had to insist that I didn't see it that way, even when I was dying inside myself.

I think my refusal to give up finally got through to him that there WERE a few cracks in the stone wall between us that were worth poking at to make a bigger opening in the wall.

And that's how it worked out.

So, while his email is full of fog, I see him looking for any signs of hope at all. That doesn't mean you have to "forget" and just "get over it." He needs to make just compensation, but I don't think he has a clue about what that means right now.

Doesn't matter. All you have to do is continue to let him know you haven't given up all hope for your M, even if you do end up in Plan B to protect your own heart.

The reconciliation move will have to ultimately come from him. That won't happen until (and if) he can get over his justifications and understand what his bad behavior did to you. It's probably going to take a while. How long have you got?

Right Here Waiting

How long have I got? Well, I signed up for a lifetime, but it may well be shorter than that!
Anyway, I need to keep reminding myself to just stay the course, but I'm very careful about the time I spend with him. I just try to make every email and text as appreciative and nice as possible. I have a hard time with face to face -- not being unkind, just sad.
I have asked him to help me with a little house project when he comes for the kids (I am painting my bedroom after 6 years in this house and I'm so excited) -- I just need help moving furniture. I think I can handle that.
But, I think even if I got to the point where I said that's it, I can't do this, I'd still be in Plan B. I miss my husband and affection and, yes, SF, but I'm not willing to end my marriage just to "move on," and have someone else in my life. Finding someone isn't hard; its staying true to someone when its this hard is the task!
Questions:
OW's xBF sent me OW's mom's email -- do you think I should send any kind of reiteration to her before Thanksgiving when OW is going home for a visit?
Also, I wanted to respond to some of what he said in the posted email, but when I do it electronically, he just responds with the fog. Do you think I should just write him a letter? He seems to like those, but it would give me a chance to reiterate that there is a path back and that I do not desire a divorce. What do you think?
BF439

Yeah, that's why I hung on. I signed up for a lifetime too. Besides, I couldn't think of an alternative that I could be happy about.

As far as responding to WH's email, no need to go into long, drawn out detail. I think what you said at the bottom of your post is quite sufficient as an answer: "There is a path back and ... I do not desire a divorce."

That's clear enough, isn't it?

I hear that you're tired from all the efforts you've put forth to date, and would like to share what Steve Harley told me when he recommended a "modified Plan A." He said to email little one-liners every few days. NOT to talk R or tell WH what I was doing or what was going on in my life...just little 'Hi's' to keep the reality of me in front of him. Steve said it would protect me from more painful fog babble at the same time, because my love bank was running on fumes then.

If this seems to fit your sitch, feel free to borrow it. You need to take care of you, while not throwing in the towel.

When he comes to help with your house project, be pleasant, cheerful and a little detached. Painting the bedroom sends a message that you're getting on with the mundane matters of your life, even if he isn't part of it. You can use this to make it clear that you are not desperate, and that's good. The more non-chalant you can be, the better. Will help you segue into Plan B when the time comes.

Not sure what purpose would be served by emailing OW's mom. What would be your reason for doing so?

Right Here Waiting

I'll try the little notes and see how I can handle that. I was ok with the project (just moving stuff), but otherwise very little contact -- I was cool, like ice. It kills me how aloof he is, tho, and I want to scream when my babies leave me for the night!!!!
One issue, tho, my 12 year old is refusing to go overnight with him at all. As you can imagine, she is so pissed at him. I guess he's going to move into his apartment next week, tho he hasn't shared that with me, and I guess she told him she won't go there either. I'm not sure what to do.
The move will likely push the issue of him wanting to take things from the house. I will not offer and I'll just have to see how it goes.
I think you are right -- I'll just respond to one part of his email with a brief response. How's this:
"As I have said before, I am not hopeless, but I do not desire the marriage we had before. I know we can have a happier marriage than either of us can imagine right now. There is a path back for you that will help us all to heal, including you. I do not desire a divorce and I want us both to be happy."
How about that?
The purpose for email to OW's mom is just my anxiety (and need to scream from the mountain-top that this is not ok) to know that OW's mom will continue to pressure OW to not pursue WH. I guess that's just my control issues. She knows and hopefully they will share with her over the holiday their feelings about it.
Now, to start painting!
BF439

Me: 38
WH: 40
Kids: 12, 11, 4
D-day: 7/30/08 and again 10/25.
In guarded plan A

I hope you will all be so proud of me: I redid my bedroom and totally took it back as my space. It is pretty and restful and my kids all want to sleep there tonight! Also, it took strength for me to just move things around, drill holes and paint the whole thing and I did just fine!
I had to laugh, tho, I wanted the light in my shower fan fixed for, and I am not kidding, 4 years, and WH never seemed to be able to get to it. I assumed it was a huge job, removing the cover and replacing the bulb, etc. It took me 5 minutes and most of that was walking downstairs and finding the right bulb... WTF??!!! The little things he stopped doing -- was it because I stopped showing appreciation or because he is a self-absorbed person? I don't know! He used to be really attentive, but the past few years so few things got done. Do you not replace a bulb because you no longer love your wife or because there is something going on inside of you?
Anyway, I was cool today when I asked him to help out a little. RTW -- would would have been so proud of me! When he told me he was moving into his apt. this week, I just "oh, yeah, D12 mentioned that. Hey, could you get the Xmas lights up this week?" Why would I want to talk about his apt?! His tone was so positive and hopeful -- does he not realize that his moving to an apartment is not a positive for me??!!
I am trying to decide my date for Plan B -- I am so looking forward to it because I know my reserves are low and I need to take care of me. Everyday I know more completely that I can take care of me and the kids and move towards a healthier life. I truly hope WH makes the decision to be part of that, but if not, I WILL BE OK!!!!
Going to bed to enjoy my lovely new room (with 2 kids already taking up 3/4 of my bed!)

BF439

I think I am looking at wrapping up Plan A and going to Plan B very soon. I am feeling very weary.
I wanted to check out with some of you the following:
What do you do about finances? He is still supporting us (as am I- we are a two-income family), but I don't want to have ongoing contact re: money and I wondered what others have done.
Also, I wondered how you handled the issues with kids -- do you set up the visistation in Plan A or outline it in the letter?
Also, is there anyone out there who would be willing to be an IM?
Let me know your thoughts...
Also, when I go to PB, I'll probably start a new thread with a new name. I don't need him reading my posts.
BF439

Usually you arrange the finances ahead of time, like he will deposit $XX each payday, or whatever. As far as visitation, you can work out a schedule ahead of time, or just have short emails with him.

You are allowed to discuss kids and finances in Plan B, but the problem is that the discussion tends to turn towards other things.

Glad you did your bedroom. I painted mine and then did the bed, lamps and candles in eggplant. My ex NEVER would have agreed to that, but I love it.

Thanks for the ideas. I think we have a lot of childcare and finances worked out already and I think I can manage short emails re: finances and kids, but I will have to set some limits on the other stuff. Not that he wants to talk about the R or the A, anyway. But I feel like I need to define for myself how I am willing to have him in my life.
He said today that my bedroom looked "retro" -- which I took to mean, like a grandma's room. Of course, there is only so much I can do with the white furniture he picked!
My kids love it, tho, and I like it fine!
I think I'll try to have one more conversation with Steve Harley and I have a few details here to work out and then I'll work on my letter and post it here for feedback. The reason I think I'm ready is I am pretty much there anyway, but I keep forcing myself to see him and be nice. I think I have had enough of having his lying, cheating butt in my home -- even if its for only short period of time.
He left early last night (and, hence, ended his visit with the kids early, and I was so convinced that he went to go see her. He said he was sick, but he doesn't look very sick to me today! I'm sick of his lies. If he wants to be with her and is willing to lie for it there is little I can do about that...
One other question -- what do people usually say about OW? Can I ask, although he may not agree to it, that my kids not be around her since she's a home wrecking skank? Or what?
Let me know...
BF439