Fo2, I see Runnerboy has replied to your thread. I strongly recommend you take his advise. Have a look at the first few pages of his thread and see how nuclear his exposure was. And it worked immediately.

Delaying gives your WW to whitewash anyone you plan to tell with some story to soften the blow or twist the blame back on to you. Expose immediately.

Telling the children is so important, for all the reasons ML gave you. Most importantly of all, it gives the kids a chance to be prepared for the worst and KNOW that it isn't their fault. Children instinctively blame themselves. You can't simply tell them it isn't their fault - they have to know exactly WHY their worlds are being shredded to pieces. If they don't know the truth, they will carry the guilt around with them for the rest of their lives. They will be angry with her. Tell them it's ok to love someone and be angry with them at the same time.

You are getting great advise here.

Waaaaay too long. Ditch everything except what they are doing, what you want to accomplish, and how you would like the recipients of the letter to help you.

Their eyes will glaze over at having to read so much stuff that isn't any of their business anyway.

Oh, and if you have a keylogger installed, it doesn't matter if she has changed a password, does it? The one I have, it shows me all keystrokes, no matter where they come from.

I would make the exposure letter much shorter. It is really no one's business how you discovered the affair.

I would tell them that your wife is having and affair and she and her partner in adultery are ruining two families. Ask for their support in saving your marriage.

The key logger is only on her home computer. She must have changed the password from her work computer. I'll have to wait and hope she logs in again from home, assuming she didn't find out somehow I got it from her home computer in the first place.

I knew posting my letter here would generate some good advice. Thank you.

My new exposure letter. I'll send it Thursday.


Family, friends, and Sue’s co-workers,

I am very sad to let you all know that Sue and a co-worker are having an adulterous affair. The affair began earlier this summer from what I can tell.

Four months ago, before I found out about the affair, one of Sue’s comments lead me to evaluate our marriage. I decided it was not good and that I would do my part to make it better.

Sue has stated several times she been impressed with the changes I’ve made and that I was a wonderful husband. Unfortunately she was already having her affair and my changes did nothing to end it. Two months ago I found out about the affair.

I told them both to stop. They both said they would. However, since they work together every day, it’s not that easy to just “stop”.

I am going to ask Sue to choose her family, or her affair. She must end her affair and quit her job to have her family.

I love Sue very much. I am ready to forgive this and move on to a marriage that is better than it ever was.

I need you all to support my marriage with Sue. I don’t want you to take her side or my side. I would like you to be on the side of our marriage as I am.

Sue is very special to me, as are all of you (friends and family). This man does NOT have her best interest at heart. He is a liar and a manipulator. I believe Sue is too blinded right now to see it. The man is also married and has children.

Two families will be destroyed if this continues. Please do whatever you are able and willing to do to help me fight for my marriage to my wonderful wife.

Thank you.

That letter is much better. I would send it.

TMI... important to you but not to others.

Family, friends, and Sue’s co-workers,

I am very sad to let you all know that Sue and a co-worker are having an adulterous affair. The affair began earlier this summer from what I can tell.

Four months ago, before I found out about the affair, one of Sue’s comments lead me to evaluate our marriage. I decided it was not good and that I would do my part to make it better.

Sue has stated several times she been impressed with the changes I’ve made and that I was a wonderful husband. Unfortunately she was already having her affair and my changes did nothing to end it. Two months ago I found out about the affair.

I told them both to stop. They both said they would. However, since they work together every day, it’s not that easy to just “stop”.

I am going to ask Sue to choose her family, or her affair. She must end her affair and quit her job to have her family.

I love Sue very much. I am ready to forgive this and move on to a marriage that is better than it ever was.

I need am asking you all to support my marriage with Sue. I don’t want you to take her side or my side. I would like you to be on the side of our marriage as I am.

Sue is very special to me, as are all of you (friends and family). This man does NOT have her best interest at heart. He is a liar and a manipulator. I believe Sue is too blinded right now to see it. The man is also married and has children.

Two families will be destroyed if this continues. Please pray if you're a praying a person and do whatever you are able and willing to do to help me fight for my marriage to my wonderful wife.

Thank you.

I got an email from the OM saying my wife had asked to end the affair with him. He said it "would be hard", but that he would try.

I made life very difficult to live for my wife and made the affair "expensive" in terms of just being able to live. I've told her boss and the workplace pretty much knows whats going on. Her boss is going to talk to the two of them and discuss if they like and want to keep their jobs. I think she wants to end the affair becuase she knows it's wrong, wants to stop being paranoid about being exposed, and wants to get on with rebuilding our marriage.

Problem is, she will leave our family before she quits her job. She has a fantastic job. But that job puts her in the office next to the OM every day. I can tell her it's me and the kids, or her job. She's already responded with "ok, I'll move out".

I'm sure someone will respond and say "dude, man up!!" Tell her it's the job or the marriage. I'm not ready to be a single father of two daughters yet.

She says she'll go to marriage counseling. I don't know what the counsellor will say about working next to the OM every day. The "quit your job" might sound better coming from someone other than me. But I doubt it will make a difference.

So, I've already lost her if it is 100% impossible to end an affair while still seeing the OM every day. Becuase if I make her chose, I'm 90% sure she'll choose her job and say "goodbye" to me and the kids.

My best friend works there as well and has been and will keep tracking their moves and time spent together. They have been good about no contact, except for work related stuff of course.

Alcoholic drinking "professional drinks" only?

I was hoping if I could get her back into the marriage a bit, my needs to separate them would be more important to her than they are now.

Thoughts welcome

Then you have your answer and she should move out. Your marriage is doomed if she continues to see the OM anyway. Dr. Harley recommends Plan B, complete separation if the wayward will not end contact.



Do you know of any cases where an alcoholic changed the name of his drinks to "professional" drinks who sobered up? Did changing the name of the drink also change REALITY?

Fatherof2,

Do you remember the old Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid movie? If so do you remember the scene where they are cornered on a ledge high above a fast running river. Sundance won't jump because he cannot swim. Butch says "Are you kidding me, the fall will probably kill you." And they jumped.

My point???

You are about to be a single father of two children. The only issues to be decided is if YOU have custody or she does. If the OM or some other man is going to rear them or YOU.

If the job is more important to your W, then your marriage is doomed. If not this OM, some other OM will enter the picture because people don't take care of what they don't value.

If you give her this choice and she leaves, you will very likely be able to rear your children as a good father should. YOu can take the child support that she will pay you out of her well paying job she loves so much and hire a Nanny, or full time help.

Unless your W changes her priorities YOU WILL BE A SINGLE FATHER. You can take that to the bank. You might as well find out now as later, and you might as well be in a position to negotiate custody and which man is going to influence their lives.

The fact that you "can't swim" (are not ready to be a single father) pales when compared to what you are going to lose anyway.

I like the short exposure letter. It is boiled down now to something short and sweet and that is always better received. Those that really care can call and obtain futher information as you decide to provide them.

Hang in there.

God Bless,

JL

Another thing to keep in mind:
Just because she SAYS she'd leave the marriage rather than quit her job, does not mean she really will. Waywards lie.

I like the short exposure letter. You should name OM, not just say "a co-worker".

I'm curious, when everyone has advised immediate and thorough exposure, have you not yet exposed?


When you do expose - do it all at once.
Go down your list of email addresses and phone numbers and get it done in one fell swoop.
Do NOT warn your WW that you are going to expose. Just do it.

I’ve read in emails they’ve sent that she would not let the affair be the cause of her failed marriage. If the marriage ended on its own, her and the OM might have a future. She stated she had to give the marriage a chance to succeed. So I know she does actually WANT the marriage to succeed. I’m just not sure at this point how much she’s willing to put into it succeeding.

With her boss being exposed, and the rumors at work being confirmed, I’m hoping the job becomes less desireable.

I realize all your advice is good and you're going to say I'm being stupid. You're probably right. I'm going to give it until next Monday and try to intercept more emails if they are sent. Which should not occur since they've agreed to stop all non work related contact.

I'm hoping to discuss this with a marriage counselor between now and then as well.

Fof2,

You would be wise to listen to JL. He has been influential in a lot of successful recoveries around here.

Let me be blunt with you. Your WW has NOT indicated in any way that she wants your marriage to work. What she is doing is laying the groundwork to continue her affair guilt free. IF she truly wanted your marriage to work, she would do whatever it took to give the marriage a chance including leaving her precious job. She’ll never admit it, but I can assure you that she is thinking that she will make a half hearted attempt at recovery and then she’ll tell everyone that she tried but the marriage just couldn’t be saved. Save yourself a LOT of heartache and demand NC as a condition for YOU to commit to trying to recover this marriage.

Your marriage is over unless she leaves her job and has TOTAL NC with OM. All you are doing by not demanding that she quit is prolonging the hurt you are experiencing. The road to recovery from an affair is a narrow ledge. If you truly want to recover, you need to make up your mind that you will not settle for crumbs from your WW. She either needs to be ALL IN or she needs to GET OUT. It’s better to get the answer now rather than suffering through a false recovery just to end up divorced anyway after months of heartache.

What RunnerBoy has said is true, and worth reading a few times.

I'd like to add that if you just demand that your WW quit her job or the marriage is over, she'll likely let the marriage end. She'll see your demands as controlling and unreasonable. She'll have no incentive to work on the marriage. She'll tell her friends and family that you were impossible to live with and she's happier after the divorce.

However, if you expose, that takes the shine off of the affair and she'll find that much of her support network will be looking at her with accusation and disappointment. Her conscience will bother her more and she'll feel less righteous about walking out of the marriage "because you were so controlling."

Really, you need to get off your duff and expose this thing.
It only takes a few minutes and you've wasted several days procrastinating.

If you were to look at all the other posters who've been in your shoes, you'd see them shaking in their boots, too, about exposing. She'll hate me! They won't do anything! They'll hate her! We'll be scandalized!

Poppycock. All excuses to cover up the fact that you are afraid to get your wife mad at you because you think if she knows you exposed, she WILL leave.

It doesn't necessarily work that way, fo2. Some do, but most back down, when the affair is exposed. Because suddenly, the affair is no fun any more; and people are looking at them like they're scum. At that point, YOU start to look better than the POS who got in bed with her.

The owner said he would talk to them but not fire two great workers. Welcome to the small business world in these economic conditions. Sounds nobel to fire the workers but that could cost him his business or lots of money. I would ask him if he could separate their cubicles at least and maybe have them take different lunch hours. Heck have your wife take a bag lunch while she says she is working on the marriage. Its not much but its something!! You know they are Lunching together!!!

I would talk to a lawyer about what your hopes are for custody of your teen kids....they are of age to chose.

What does the other wife say is going on on her end?

Be careful that she is just going to counseling just to say she tried. Maybe 3-6 months. Right now she is not willing to do more than that so you are not in good position. Your only card would be to call her bluff and then tell the kids. You know your wife and if she is bluffing. Remember she doesn't have to leave.

Just my 1 1/2 cent of opinion. I wish she was more on board with recovery but it doesn't sound like it....giving you few options.

Call her bluff. She's used to walking all over you, and in her opinion, you won't go forward with it because if you were going to, you would have done so already. Tell the kids what is happening that you told her it's either her job and OM or you and the kids. The kids are old enough that they decide who they want to stay with. Chances are, if you tell her, "then get the he11 out," she'll go back on what she said and try to stay at her job and stay at the house. That's when you need to file for divorce. When the consequences start hitting her, then she will think twice about her decision. However, now she doesn't think about it because she think she has you under control.

BTW, have you exposed to her family yet?

THREADJACK ALERT START:

WOW! It's Jim! Good to see you!

Threadjack over....

LG

But the affair will be the cause of the end of your marriage if they continue to work together. The words of your wayward wife are about as meaningful as the words of a falling down drunk who proclaims he "will never lose his job over being drunk!"


Thats cute. The alcoholic stated that she wants to give sobriety a chance but is unwilling to stop drinking and stay out of bars.


Marriage counseling is useless when there is an active affair. Not to mention that they usually cause more harm than good. Marriage counselors have the highest failure rate of any of the counseling disciplines at 84% failure. They do not understand adultery and haven't the slightest idea how to save a marriage. They have a higher divorce rate than the general population and are NOT PRO-MARRIAGE. They are little more than divorce facilitators.

Marriage counseling can be effective, though, when there is not an active affair. In your case, it will be useless because there is an active affair.

I agree with turtle about the futility of making demands. That is why I would frame it like this:

"I have done some research and have found that our marriage cannot recover unless you completely end all contact with the OM. Continuing to work with him only triggers you every day you go to work and prevents me from recovering because I am in a constant state of anxiety. The solution is to end all contact even if that means leaving the job."

Put it like this and continually tell her that this will only work if all contact is ended. She will be triggered every time she sees him at work so she cannot work at the same place.