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If you view the entire speech given on July 2nd in Colorado Springs, it's obvious what Obama's intent is when his statements are put into the correct context.

What would this civilian military force that is "just as powerful, just as strong, just as well funded" DO that isn't already being done?

Please, tell me what is he talking about.

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Our military is stretched to it's max and we are going to need civilian forces to help fill in the gaps.

Again, why doesn't he encourage our youth to join the military?

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Whether it be from natural disaster or infrastructure building.

LOL

Do you really believe that teenagers/college students w/ three months of "training" are going to rebuild infrastructure?




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Does anyone remember G. Bush, Sr.'s "Thousand Points of Light?" Obama'a Civilian Security force will amount to about the same thing.

While Bush Sr's remarks may have mystified me, they certainly never troubled me.

I hope you are right, LG.

But, after listening to what Emanuel said, it looks like they may actually be serious about this.


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Bump for MEDC and PM

In case you missed it.

Originally Posted by Marshmallow
How about his attempts to destroy the 2nd amendment?


As a presidential candidate, Barack Obama must demonstrate executive experience, but he remains strangely silent about his eight years (1994-2002) as a director of the Joyce Foundation, a billion dollar tax-exempt organization. He has one obvious reason: during his time as director, Joyce Foundation spent millions creating and supporting anti-gun organizations.

There is another, less known, reason.

During Obama’s tenure, the Joyce Foundation board planned and implemented a program targeting the Supreme Court. The work began five years into Obama’s directorship, when the Foundation had experience in turning its millions into anti-gun “grassroots” organizations, but none at converting cash into legal scholarship.

The plan’s objective was bold: the judicial obliteration of the Second Amendment.

Joyce’s directors found a vulnerable point. When judges cannot rely upon past decisions, they sometimes turn to law review articles. Law reviews are impartial, and famed for meticulous cite-checking. They are also produced on a shoestring. Authors of articles receive no compensation; editors are law students who work for a tiny stipend.

In 1999, midway through Obama’s tenure, the Joyce board voted to grant the Chicago-Kent Law Review $84,000, a staggering sum by law review standards. The Review promptly published an issue in which all articles attacked the individual right view of the Second Amendment.

In a breach of law review custom, Chicago-Kent let an “outsider” serve as editor; he was Carl Bogus, a faculty member of a different law school. Bogus had a unique distinction: he had been a director of Handgun Control Inc. (today’s Brady Campaign), and was on the advisory board of the Joyce-funded Violence Policy Center.

Bogus solicited only articles hostile to the individual right view of the Second Amendment, offering authors $5,000 each. But word leaked out, and Prof. Randy Barnett of Boston University volunteered to write in defense of the individual right to arms. Bogus refused to allow him to write for the review, later explaining that “sometimes a more balanced debate is best served by an unbalanced symposium.” Prof. James Lindgren, a former Chicago-Kent faculty member, remembers that when Barnett sought an explanation he “was given conflicting reasons, but the opposition of the Joyce Foundation was one that surfaced at some time.” Joyce had bought a veto power over the review’s content.

Joyce Foundation apparently believed it held this power over the entire university. Glenn Reynolds later recalled that when he and two other professors were scheduled to discuss the Second Amendment on campus, Joyce’s staffers “objected strenuously” to their being allowed to speak, protesting that Joyce Foundation was being cheated by an “‘agenda of balance’ that was inconsistent with the Symposium’s purpose.” Joyce next bought up an issue of Fordham Law Review.The plan worked smoothly. One court, in the course of ruling that there was no individual right to arms, cited the Chicago-Kent articles eight times. Then, in 2001, a federal Court of Appeals in Texas determined that the Second Amendment was an individual right.

The Joyce Foundation board (which still included Obama) responded by expanding its attack on the Second Amendment. Its next move came when Ohio State University announced it was establishing the “Second Amendment Research Center” as a thinktank headed by anti-individual-right historian Saul Cornell. Joyce put up no less than $400,000 to bankroll its creation. The grant was awarded at the board’s December 2002 meeting, Obama’s last function as a Joyce director. In reporting the grant, the OSU magazine Making History made clear that the purpose was to influence a future Supreme Court case:

“The effort is timely: a series of test cases - based on a new wave of scholarship, a recent decision by a federal Court of Appeals in Texas, and a revised Justice Department policy-are working their way through the courts. The litigants challenge the courts’ traditional reading of the Second Amendment as a protection of the states’ right to organize militia, asserting that the Amendment confers a much broader right for individuals to own guns. The United States Supreme Court is likely to resolve the debate within the next three to five years.”


The Center proceeded to generate articles denying the individual right to arms. The OSU connection also gave Joyce an academic money laundry. When it decided to buy an issue of the Stanford Law and Policy Review, it had a cover. Joyce handed OSU $125,000 for that purpose; all the law review editors knew was that OSU’s Foundation granted them that breathtaking sum, and a helpful Prof. Cornell volunteered to organize the issue. (The review was later sufficiently embarassed to publish an open letter on the affair).

The Joyce directorate’s plan almost succeeded. The individual rights view won out in the Heller Supreme Court appeal, but only by 5-4. The four dissenters were persuaded in part by Joyce-funded writings, down to relying on an article which misled them on critical historical documents.

Having lost that fight, Obama now claims he always held the individual rights view of the Second Amendment, and that he “respects the constitutional rights of Americans to bear arms.” But as a Joyce director, Obama was involved in a wealthy foundation’s attempt to manipulate the Supreme Court, buy legal scholarship, and obliterate the individual right to arms.

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Originally Posted by Pariah
This is how liberty dies, to thunderous applause.

There is no other way to look at this...

“Requiring” folks to do anything that they do not want to do, is a blatant assault on our liberties.





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To top it off, he even plans to compensate college students very well for serving, giving them a $4000 tax credit for just 100 hours of community service. That works out to an effective pay rate of $40 an HOUR! What a great opportunity for someone struggling to pay for our outrageous higher education costs. Looks to me like it's a win/win proposal benefiting our country and the American youth. To each his own I guess.

Yes, to each his own.

What's wrong w/ getting a JOB?

It works and it doesn’t impose on anyone’s liberties.

Kids can earn enough while living w/ their parents, to pay their own way through college.






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Originally Posted by Marshmallow
Originally Posted by Pariah
This is how liberty dies, to thunderous applause.

There is no other way to look at this...

“Requiring” folks to do anything that they do not want to do, is a blatant assault on our liberties.

I can tell you that as the father of a now 13 year old boy, my son will not be participating in this required "service." Never, never, never.

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What?

No Hitler Jungen for him?

Don't worry, the obamazombies in our education system will have him indoctrinated and goose stepping in no time!

They will be taught to turn in their parents for being "enemies of the state".

Then will come the night of the long knives.


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If you view the entire speech given on July 2nd in Colorado Springs, it's obvious what Obama's intent is when his statements are put into the correct context.

What would this civilian military force that is "just as powerful, just as strong, just as well funded" DO that isn't already being done?

Please, tell me what is he talking about.

That’s why as President, I will expand AmeriCorps to 250,000 slots, and make that increased service a vehicle to meet national goals like providing health care and education, saving our planet and restoring our standing in the world, so that citizens see their efforts connected to a common purpose. People of all ages, stations, and skills will be asked to serve. Because when it comes to the challenges we face, the American people are not the problem – they are the answer.

So we are going to send more college graduates to teach and mentor our young people. We’ll call on Americans to join an Energy Corps to conduct renewable energy and environmental cleanup projects in their neighborhoods all across the country. We will enlist our veterans to find jobs and support for other vets, to be there for our military families. And we’re going to grow our Foreign Service, open consulates that have been shuttered, and double the size of Peace Corps by 2011 to renew our diplomacy.
-----

Seems pretty obvious to me what the objectives will be. He's counting on the US citizens to rebuild our country. He intends to invest in projects that will foster community and bring our nation closer together.

He also mentioned starting an Energy Corps which would fit with another possible objective he stated in an interview he gave. In that interview, he talked of the possibility of rebuilding our electric grid. A massive project that would need the kind of involvement he described in his speech. Something that this country will need to do in order to take advantage of renewable energy sources. Our electric grid is a weak point for our country. One that has been mentioned as a potential target for terrorist attacks. When millions of people can loose power with a simple storm, it's time to upgrade the system.


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Our military is stretched to it's max and we are going to need civilian forces to help fill in the gaps.

Again, why doesn't he encourage our youth to join the military?
-----

Because it's not necessary since Obama is pro-diplomacy and views war as an action of last resort. Our military wouldn't be stretched to the max if we were not still fighting an unjust war in Iraq. I sure do think our country could use the $800 billion we wasted fighting that war. It was a bad idea from the beginning that will end just as predicted. We were naive to believe that we could invade a country and force ethnic groups that have been fighting for almost a hundred years to stop just because we said so. Not unless you plan to be there for a hundred years to achieve it.

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Whether it be from natural disaster or infrastructure building.

LOL

Do you really believe that teenagers/college students w/ three months of "training" are going to rebuild infrastructure?
-----

Do you really believe that teenagers/college students w/ three months of "training" are going to form some massive paramilitary force to oppress the American people? Which scenario do you think is more plausible?

Anyhoo, this is all just conjecture and speculation because the man hasn't even taken office yet. These are some of he ideas he campaigned under, but there is no guarantee that any of it will come to fruition. Our country certainly has more pressing issues at the moment with the economic crisis. And if it does, nowhere in that speech did Obama say that this service would be "REQUIRED." Nor did he say that this force would be as well armed as the military, but the right sure does like to pretend it was implied just to feed the Obama fear.

Originally Posted by Marshmallow
Yes, he did. And thank you for saying so.

Barack Obama will be my President.

I will pray for him. And respect the office he will hold.

As a great man once said, "Country first."

Can't exactly respect the office if you're back to fanning conspiracy theory flames 10 days later.

Want2Stay


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And if it does, nowhere in that speech did Obama say that this service would be "REQUIRED."

No, but his chief of staff certainly did.

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Originally Posted by medc
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And if it does, nowhere in that speech did Obama say that this service would be "REQUIRED."

No, but his chief of staff certainly did.

And he is not the president. It would still have to pass congress which isn't likely to happen. The more plausible scenario would be a voluntary service. This whole idea goes back to where Obama came from as a community organizer. A lot of good can be achieved when people work together. How can this be a bad idea?

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The more plausible scenario would be a voluntary service.

Not. The person Obama picked for a VERY powerful position has made made clear it would be mandatory. I think based upon that, that is lost likely the more plausible scenario.

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Most socialist countries have a mandatory military service.
From Britain to Germany.

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Originally Posted by medc
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The more plausible scenario would be a voluntary service.

Not. The person Obama picked for a VERY powerful position has made made clear it would be mandatory. I think based upon that, that is lost likely the more plausible scenario.

Not true Medc. There are approximately 32 million Americans between the ages of 18-25. With the numbers stated in the speech, there is no way that you can assume that this service would be mandatory. The numbers just wouldn't add up.

AmeriCorps - 250,000
PeaceCorps - 190,000 x 2 = 380,000
total 630,000

That's a fraction of the people in that age range.

Quote: Obama
People of all ages, stations, and skills will be ASKED to serve.

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Well, if you are right...which I don't think you are...Obama will "correct" the error of his new COS.....which by the way, was repeated over and over. He meant what he said.

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Ok, first of all, let me say that, Obama's calls for increasing AmeriCorps to 250,000 is a noble gesture, for sure.

But one that has NOTHING to do with his comment on the civilian security force.

Rahm Emanuel’s comments have put to rest any notion of an expanded Peace Corps. He talked about 3 months of BASIC TRAINING.

For ALL young men and women.

Our military has over 1 million members. Increasing Ameri Corps to 250,000 doesn't come close to making it “just as strong” as the military.

Our defense budget is enormous. What is the Peace Corps going to do w/ an amount equal to the billions of dollars we spend on aircraft or ships? Or the payroll for over 1 million?

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Do you really believe that teenagers/college students w/ three months of "training" are going to form some massive paramilitary force to oppress the American people? Which scenario do you think is more plausible?

I've never said I believe he's going to "form some massive paramilitary force to oppress the American people".

I have no effing idea what he's planning, Want2. And I sure would like to know.

What HAS been said doesn't make sense to me.

There is no way that I believe it is possible to take college kids and train them... and have them rebuild infrastructure in THREE MONTHS TIME. It is a ridiculous notion, IMO.

Most teenagers/college kids are interested in partying and hooking up. How does he intend to make them show up on time, let alone get them to rebuild infrastructure?

Does he plan on using military style discipline on the kids?

I'm left w/ questions, Want2, lots of them.

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Can't exactly respect the office if you're back to fanning conspiracy theory flames 10 days later.

I can't help how you interpret my questions, Want2.

I don't believe asking questions about specific plans our future President has is disrespecting him.








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Mandatory service = career suicide for politicians.

You might as well be going on and on about Flying Purple People Eaters.


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Originally Posted by Marshmallow
Our defense budget in enormous. What is the Peace Corps going to do w/ an amount equal to the billions of dollars we spend on aircraft or ships? Or the payroll for over 1 million?

Rebuilding the electric grid for one. These projects are going to cost a lot of money, but it's money we've needed to invest in our country for a long time. The quote "just as strong", "just as well funded" as our military means in the numbers of those that serve and the seriousness of which the program taken. Initiatives like this can not be taken half-heartedly or they will be doomed to fail.

Originally Posted by Marshmallow
There is no way that I believe it is possible to take college kids and train them... and have them rebuild infrastructure in THREE MONTHS TIME. It is a ridiculous notion, IMO.

Most teenagers/college kids are interested in partying and hooking up. How does he intend to make them show up on time, let alone get them to rebuild infrastructure?

I don't believe they could do it on their own either. I don't think that is the plan though. What I see, is them functioning as a general labor workforce in concert with professionals from given areas.

Like I said Marsh, this is all conjecture and speculation anyways. Let's see how the policy develops before deeming it bad for the country.

I really do see a lot of promise in this administration for the future of our country. I may be wrong, and if I am I would be right there questioning decisions that were made. In the meantime, I would prefer to give the benefit of the doubt until he proves otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Want2Stay
In the meantime, I would prefer to give the benefit of the doubt until he proves otherwise.

When?

When the jackboots are marching through your neighborhoods and busting in doors to remove the "enemies of the state"?


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Originally Posted by Pariah
Originally Posted by Want2Stay
In the meantime, I would prefer to give the benefit of the doubt until he proves otherwise.

When?

When the jackboots are marching through your neighborhoods and busting in doors to remove the "enemies of the state"?

If you really believe that and not just spewing sour grapes, you should build yourself a compound and stockpile weapons.

That, or seek out therapy for paranoid delusions.

C'mon...you're not serious, are you?


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Did it happen before?

Yes or no?


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