Have your brother send it. Remember neither one is to break plan B. Also re write it so that it sounds as your brother is only forwarding the pertinent information.

Well Bro sent the NC letter that I wrote to WAS. As I expected, WAS sent ME an email this morning. Here is what he sent:

idey,

I have much more regarding this message but wish to communicate two things right away.

1. I am very sorry that things are once again back to telling without discussions or communication. After all of the open discussion we have had I feel this is a dramatic shift back to previous behavior that only fueled distrust and fostered defensive, emotional reactions on both sides. I feel it not only breaks the trust built around efforts to make the best of our relationship changes for S9, but it jeopardizes the stability that has so often been brought to me as crucial for his well being. I feel S will immediately recognize the changes. I feel S will immediately see the impact of these decisions. And I feel these all result negatively.

Additionally, it changes the agreement we made. Given that I have no permanent residence it was agreed that temporary arrangements would include one out of every 4 weeks I be allowed to stay in the house we both own with S. While this arrangement was still far from the amount of time I should be spending with S, it was agreed upon until the divorce was finalized because we both agreed it was best for him given my living, and our money, circumstances, and it provided a stable location for him until I got my own apartment (once our house was sold).

To receive an email TELLING me it is no longer "convenient" to continue our agreement and for me to have overnights with S in the home we both own, is not acceptable. I would ask, what other options are there? weekends at a hotel? that is clearly not a healthy option for S, nor a cost effective one given the money situation. Overnights at my friend's house? Again it is easy to see how uncomfortable this would be for our son, having to stay with strangers just to spend the time he deserves with his father. On top of all this, it feels I am being TOLD, that the only phone line available to S is no longer going to be used to allow me to speak with him. This is also not acceptable.

Until the divorce is final, I feel we keep to the temporary agreement we made
1. One weekend out of every 4 I spend with S at our house.
2. One Saturday out of every 4 I spend with S from 10 -6
3. On weeks prior to weekends I spend with S, I spend Wednesdays from 6:00pm to 10:00pm with him in our house
4. On weeks prior to weekends I do not spend with S, I spend Tuesdays and Thursdays from 6:00pm to 10:00pm with him in our house

This is that the best scenario for S in these circumstances and short of some direct discussion I cannot accept any changes to our arrangement.

2. I was planning on sending you an email regarding S's visit to IC tomorrow, and at the same time hope to talk about your previous request about no longer coming inside our house.

If there was something urgent I would have communicated it to you immediately and without hesitation but apologize for the delay all the same.

As it was, IC spent the entire session with S and he and I did not speak except for him to tell me he decided to have the entire session with S because he felt they made good progress and felt it was beginning to click for S. The only other request was me asking if I could ask him a few questions about talking with S about things and he said he had another appointment and that I could email him any time. I would like to discuss with you (not through your brother) sending the email message below to IC and getting his feedback on how he feels this will affect S (refering to the NC letter he recieved). If we cannot talk about this direct to each other, I will feel have to make a decision on my own. With regards to things that so drastically impact S, it is something I would rather not do but the message below indicates that there is no longer any interest in direct communication.


idey, I struggle greatly to understand this sudden return to the behavior of the summer (I went NC then as well, stopped when he said OW was gone but she was not). Even more so, I struggle to see how this makes a better situation for S. I am asking the wonderful mother you are to reconsider this direction. S needs both of us equally and attempting to arbitrarily change things like this will only negatively affect that, and just as he is just starting to gain a ground to stand on. I feel this is a terrible mistake for him and a major set back to our progress and am seeking the peace and wisdom


WAS


Just so you know I WILL NOT RESPOND TO THIS AT ALL. He broke the rules and did not go through my brother. I just wanted some feedback on his letter. The locks are changed his email gets directly sent to my delete folder now. WHat do you think Ishould expect from him? Tonight is his visitation with S. Thanks for allof the help with this.

Apparently WAH sent a copy of the email to my Bro as well. After reading it my bro called him up to explain the rules to him. He told WAH that he was only going to pass on pertinent information, nothing else. WAH needed to keep to the facts only. WAH tried to defend himself to bro, but bro cut him off and said that this was not about him. WAH is angry that I am no longer willing to leave my home for one weekend a month so he can be here. Bro told him that if we were D right now then he would not be allowed to even set foot in the house. WAH should be thankful that I even allow him to have some weeknights with S. I think it sunk in because tonights visitation went without a hitch. Were we able to maintain NC.

I am hoping that the NC will allow me to finally heal the rest of the way. I carry so much hurt and anger over his A. He has moved in with her and has no remorce at all for any of his actions. I want to let go, I want to find acceptance. I am hoping this will be the final step that I need. The out of sight out of mind mentality.

I have a question.....is going complete NC at the holiday season more effective than going NC at another time? If they are going to come out of the fog, does the NC help push the A to end or is it there just to protect the LBS while they are still in the A?

Thanks for all of the advice so far.

Why have you not blocked his emails?

Why are you still reading his emails?

There is no, NC because he is still "talking" to you by email.

Is he still seeing OW, length of the affair, your plan A effort, in short there is a laundry list of factors. Plan B as plan A are effective, but not 100% effective.

You have to let time work at him. It can take two weeks, two years.

TheRoad,

Thank you for trying to help me in this long journey. Here is a little more background to my sitch. First, I did block his email, but not before he replied to my NC letter. I have not talked or seen WAH or had any contact of any kind with him since a week ago. I read the email because I am a curious creature and saw it just sitting there in my in box. I wanted to know what he had to say. Guess it was a weak moment. WAH now knows everything is to go through my bro and my bro is handle that sitch beautiful. I am blessed to have such a supportive and loving person in my family.

So, we have now been completly dark for 6 days. WAH reaction.....to tell his bro and bro's wife that he no longer wants me in their life. Their responce has been that he does not control who they love. Bless them. I do not lean on them or expect anything from them, I am just grateful for the support they are giving me at this moment.

As far as him with OW. Well, I dont know how long the A has been going on. I suspect for a couple of years. I know there was large purchases made for her in Nov and Dec of last year and he talked about her alot on a vaction we took in Aug of last year. My Dday was May 28th of this year. I found out I had potenially terminal cancer 2 days before hand. WAH had already moved out 1 month before to "find himself". When I told him of my illness he ran even further. I moved away to live with my bro during the summer while I was going through chemo. When the school year started back up, I moved back to my house so my son could attend his school again.

When I returned, he had me believing that OW was out of the picture. I was doing plan A at this time. Building him up, showing appreciation for everything he did, just trying to fill his love buckets up. Then I found out that OW was stil in the pic. He was in fact living there but saying that he was NOT in a R with her, just taking things slow. Because of our financial sitch, he says he is "staying" with her, not really living with her. I have found that he has an online dating profile that he is actively persuing (by viewing the internet history log from when he is here). The anger just started to build within me so I knew I needed to let go.

So...do I think our R will be saved? At this point I no longer believe in miracles. I want my H back, but dont believe it is a possiblity at this point. I have had to deal with so much these last 6 months. Almost dying, losing the family unit that I thought would always be there and taking care of my suicidal 9 year old because of his father's actions. I want hope, I truly do, but I just dont know if it is healthy to have it at this point.

I truly hope that by completely removing myself from his life after being very kind and generous (he has even made several comments on how much I have changed for the better) that he will see what he is missing. I know that as long as OW is in the picture this will not happen. I have to distance myself until that R blows up. And trust me, I know it will blow up. His life is spiralling downward quickly and I think the cracks in their R are starting to show. Again, I cant focus on that for my own health. By going dark I am hoping that the anger that I feel lessons and that I can move on with my life. Do I want my family whole - absolutely! Do I think it will happen, not really, but there is still that itty bitty piece of hope that just wont go away yet.

Hope that answers your questions. Am I doing the right thing here?

I know there are success stories here, but are there truly any when the WAS has no remorce? I guess I am just looking for a little hope to what feels like a hopeless situation.

Pepperband Fog translation services:

idey,


I have much more regarding this message but wish to communicate two things right away.

Sending you this letter directly is my way of telling you that I do not intend to respect your wishes that I don't contact you whenever I darn well please.

1. I am very sorry that things are once again back to telling without discussions or communication. After all of the open discussion we have had I feel this is a dramatic shift back to previous behavior that only fueled distrust and fostered defensive, emotional reactions on both sides. By the way, my adultery and living with maggot have nothing to do with distrust and defensive emotional feelings. None what-so-ever! I feel it not only breaks the trust built around efforts to make the best of our relationship changes for S9, but it jeopardizes the stability that has so often been brought to me as crucial for his well being. I want you to allow me to be a free-range rooster without any restrictions at all. I feel S will immediately recognize the changes. I feel S will immediately see the impact of these decisions. And I feel these all result negatively. And I refuse to acknowledge that my adultery has any negative impact on our son. My adultery is a positive for our son - if he sees his Dad is happy, he'll be OK.

Additionally, it changes the agreement we made. You remember, the agreement? The one that says I can screw other women, ignore my marriage vows, yet have full family member benefits? How come YOU don't honor THAT agreement? Given that I have no permanent residence (because I abandoned my family) it was agreed that temporary arrangements would include one out of every 4 weeks I be allowed to stay in the house we both own with S. And it does not matter to me how much this arrangement hurts you. While this arrangement was still far from the amount of time I should be spending with S (but I made the choice to spend time with maggot instead of our son), it was agreed upon until the divorce was finalized because we both agreed it was best for him given my living, and our money, circumstances, and it provided a stable location for him until I got my own apartment (once our house was sold). All of this is for our son - none of this is so I can fool around and still act like I am King'O'castle

To receive an email TELLING me it is no longer "convenient" to continue our agreement and for me to have overnights with S in the home we both own, is not acceptable. I am the only one who is allowed to break agreements - like wedding vows ! How DARE YOU break or change our "agreement" ! I would ask, what other options are there? (Please don't say act like a man and honor my first agreement - to love honor cherish .... and .... and .... what was that other one? Oh Yeah! Give myself only unto thee.) weekends at a hotel? (Hotels are for adultery, not for visitation.) that is clearly not a healthy option for S (Maggot doesn't want me at any hotels where she is not along), nor a cost effective one given the money situation, and all my expenses funding my adultery. Maggot needs nice things, yanno?. Overnights at my friend's house? This would not make Maggot very happy either.Again it is easy to see how uncomfortable this would be for our son (the visitation stress, not his Dad's adultery), having to stay with strangers just to spend the time he deserves with his father. (I know he'd see me a lot more if I did not chose to abandon my family - but what the heck - I deserve to be happy, even if our son misses having me as a full time Dad) On top of all this, it feels I am being TOLD (no one tells King'O'castle what to do!), that the only phone line available to S is no longer going to be used to allow me to speak with him. This is also not acceptable. However, my adultery IS acceptable.

Until the divorce is final, I feel we keep to the temporary agreement we made <~~~ this is worthy of a separate post
1. One weekend out of every 4 I spend with S at our house.( whaaa whaaa mommie let me in)
2. One Saturday out of every 4 I spend with S from 10 -6 (I'm going for "Dad-of-the year" award!)
3. On weeks prior to weekends I spend with S, I spend Wednesdays from 6:00pm to 10:00pm with him in our house (It is NOT your house, even if I don't live there and have moved in with maggot)
4. On weeks prior to weekends I do not spend with S, I spend Tuesdays and Thursdays from 6:00pm to 10:00pm with him in our house (OUR house is a very very fine house, with 2 cats in the yard .... It is OUR house that I don't want to live in anymore but visit at MY comvenience - what's so bad about that?)

This is that the best scenario for S in these circumstances (MY adultery and abandonment of family circumstances) and short of some direct discussion I cannot accept any changes to our arrangement. (I'm going to be a complete and utter poophead.)

2. I was planning on sending you an email regarding S's visit to IC tomorrow, and at the same time hope to talk about your previous request about no longer coming inside our house. .... and I plan to ignore your requests because your request interferes with my grand King'O'castle plans !!!


I feel this is a terrible mistake for him and a major set back to our progress (progress defined as ME getting whatever I want WHEN ever I want it without regard to how this hurts my wife) and am seeking the peace and wisdom .... and the freedom to roam but return home at my whim.

Ok here is a little gem. WH wrote:




This implies that WH knows that previous agreements will change after the finalization of the divorce ... tell your brother to tell WH that you decided to proceed as if the divorce is already final ! And, in addition to that, YOU will maintain YOUR privacy in your own home that WH is NOT allowed entry into YOUR PRIVATE space!!!!!!!!!!!

He's holding you hostage. Refuse the role of hostage.

"Thanks but no thanks"

No active WS has remorse.
Your WH is not feeling consequences.
Open the floodgate and let the consequences flow freely ... he's not King'O'castle .... he's living with a maggot in casa'de'puke.

Has your WH expressed any concerns that YOU may date and remarry and another man will be living with his son?

Oh Pepper, first of all, bless you bless you bless you. I have read many of your post that have so many words of wisdom. Your reaction to OEO (I now refer to him as O Enlightend One because he is always wishing me peace and harmony in my life. Like that can happen with everything that has occured) was EXACTLY the way I felt. I actually had to snicker some at what he wrote.

My email account does not have a "block sender" option, it just lets you directly have emails put in the deleted folder. I was getting ready to empty out the trash when I saw that he has sent me another email tonight. Dont worry, I did not read it. I dont need that drama in my life. He needs to learn that if he wants to talk to me, he does it through my wonderful brother (who is handling the sitch perfectly) or he gets rid of OW. I am trying to let go of the anger that I now carry because of his shinanagans.

As far as me with other men....well, there have been a couple of conversations concerning that. The first one was that he was going to have a hard time seeing me with anyone else but he would get used to it. He wanted me to let go of him and move on. The second was that who ever I get seriously involved with is just going to have to except that he is part of the package. Even though he is no longer in love with me, he still wants to be part of my life. We still have a connection....HUH????

I told him that I would not take a demontion from wife to friend and that if he continued with his A, I was not going to allow any kind of connection to occur. This conversation happend about a month ago. He has tried to tell me that he does not care if I date (I am not) but when he thought I was going out on a date one night he walked in all p!ssy. Tried to act like it was not because of my date (I went out with an out of town family friend who did not want OEO to know he was in town). By the end of the evening I did end up confessing who I was out with and then he was Mr Have Peace In Your life guy again. <Sigh> I am dropping the rope so that I dont get dragged through his crap anymore. I so wish it were not this way, but it is and I have to deal with reality.

Personally, I still think he loves me but hates himself. He went through a sever depression right as he left (tried to commit suicide at one point) and the maggot he is with...well, lets just say he definately has A way down, and I do me WAY down. Everyone who knows him keeps saying they dont understand what he is doing. I think he is in MLC but that doesnt matter. He is the one chosing this behavior. I have to protect my son and myself at this point. I still love the man he was and wish he would come back, but I have learned not to hold onto those wishes.

I still would like to know if the WAS who are as far gone as mine ever come back? Not holding on to it, just wondering if I should have a sliver of a piece of hope that I keep on the top shelf of my closet in case of emergencies.

Thank you once again for you comical input. You made me laugh and we can all use a smile here and there!

My dear, I think you are handling this nonsense with grace. Your humor is one of your strengths.

I can tell from his writing, OEO thinks he is "evolved".
His spouts of "evolved wisdom" are "gifts" to you, aren't they ? Maggot's attractiveness depends on her sipping from this fountain of enlightened wisdom, in other words, she's a sycophant.

What you know is this, The Emperor has no clothes!




Yes, being the OEO wearing no clothes is a full time job, and requires a supporting cast.




Yeah, they do come back (ask Believer) .... but sadly they do so much damage in their wake that the wife, if she is strong and smart, often falls out of love with the WAS because they appear so weak and pathetic (again, ask Believer, I hope she reads this and chimes in).




My hope is this, that you can hold onto your love for him and that he returns to his senses before your view of OEO is beyond repair where you think that taking him back is a step down, for you!

The pseudo dating thing .... I'm not normally a big fan of this, but I don't think OEO should be privy to your personal comings and goings any more. ALLOW him to think whatever he thinks. Perfect your Mona Lisa expression, where your smile reveals nothing and your enigmatic non-responses to his inquiries puts a worm into his brain.

OEO has no clothes, and he's parading around nekk'ed as if he was covered in finery!


Hans Christian Anderson

And just who is it that "outs" the Emperor? A child, an innocent, someone who is not using the Emperor for self gain.


Buy that children's book and read it. Leave it on your coffee table. That will bring on your Mona Lisa smile

My ex's affair lasted almost 3 and a half years, and then ended less than 2 weeks after our divorce was final.

He wanted to get back together, but I was done by that time.

He has been trying to get back together for about a year now. In fact he called last night and said he still loves me and we will be together forever in heaven and he is looking forward to that.

Hang in there and stay very dark. Don't read ANYTHING he sends you, as all that will do is drain whatever love you have left for him. Let the OW meet all of his needs. Once you do that, the affair will undoubtedly end.

So sorry you are having to get treated for cancer on top of all of the betrayal stuff.

Once again, thank you Pepper for the humorous look at the life of my WAH. Yes, I know too well the justifications he gives himself to believe that he is doing the right thing. After all, he was married to such a controlling person. I dont know how he could stand it! I mean all of those times that I took over by cleaning the house, cooking the food, doing the laundry, taking care of his 94 year old grandmother who lived with us, raising our son pretty much single handedly (unless you count playing Xbox games a parenting) all while walking around in sever pain because of the cancer that had not been diagnosed yet. Of course that must have just been h#ll on him. <snort>

Believer....I think I am getting close to losing my love for him as well. He has done so many hurtful and distructive things. He abandond me while I was going through chemo. Three weeks ago was my last treatment, so I get to move on from that until my next check up in 6 months. I just carry around resentment that he left me when I needed him the most (probably why he left....too much pressure and he was depressed at the time). I want the man he USED to be back, or something similar, but he if trys to come back the way he is now, well I know my answer......RUN!

Part of me hopes that this is MLC and he will come out of the ugly fog he is in. The other part feels like, let it go already. He is a [censored] and does not derseve the deep love that I gave to him all of these years. <Sigh> I hate being so torn, but the longer he is in LaLa Land, the less torn I am.

Keep posting.
Let us know if you need support.
Do you mind saying what form of CA you have?

Not at all...I had Uterian Sarcoma. Am considered in remission at this point. The chemo "pill" that I took, as awful as it was, helped me to lose the rest of my unwanted weight. Never lost my hair,thank goodness. Here is the odd thing about all of this, while I was fighting an ugly disease, I actually started to look better. I have people come up to me now and say that I look 10 years younger. Maybe it is the smile that I have learned to have on my face, or that I changed my hair or even for the first time in my life I feel attractive. OEO has made SEVERAL comments on how great I look. I just say thanks, I feel good to, and leave it at that.

Now he, on the other hand, is not fairing as well. He is gaining weight (probably from all that drinking he is now doing with maggot) has circles under his eyes, has been complaining about his sinuses hurting or his back hurting or whine, whine, whine. Even said to me that he felt ten years older than he is....I said, yep, it shows that you feel that way. He then backpedaled and said that emotional he is the happiest he has ever been, it is just that his body is falling apart. Whatever. Can we say denial????

So now that all the icky stuff is leaving my system, I am really starting to feel good. I have worked very hard at putting a wonderful support system of friends in place. I never feel alone. It has helped with moving on and finding myself. Still, there are many trigger moments that come up. I know it will just take time for them to fade as well.

Turds ala mode!

You are getting pearls of wisdom here!

Just wanted to add my own 2cents worth.
As I read your thread I kept wondering "what happened here? What is this man thinking???" and then, I read the post that, for me, sheds some light.
Your WH was/is depressed. he is sick. And I guarantee you that this OW is also sick - probably even more so.

Granted, you had health issues, but you are clearly a vibrant, mature, loving woman. Your emotional strength, and emotional health, was a stark contrast to his weakness. Many people would look at that and say "thank goodness my W is strong, and she will help me get through this". But sometimes people (your WH) look at that situation and say "Oh no, I am feeling really bad here. i need to find some who makes me feel "normal"

A friend of mine explained it this way: A drug addict likes to hang out with other drug addicts because it makes him feel normal. hanging out with sober people who are healthy shows the drug addict that his lifestyle is not good. So he chooses to hang out with other addicts in order to normalize his poor choices.

I have seen this same issue arise with depressed men. They find a woman who has been "misunderstood" all her life. Someone who had a bad childhood, and a serious of bad relationships. she needs him to save her - and when he is with her he feels "normal" in his depression. After all, she is depressed too. This is their common bond.

I am 100% convinced that some day you will find out that this woman has a serious of bad choises in her life. Bankruptcy, broken relationships, perhaps another D that no one knows about yet. right now - your WH feels sorry for her because everyone is picking on her, somehow nothing seems to work out for her. What he doesn't realize is that she has made bad choice, after bad choice, her whole life, and that is all stacking up right now.

I can think of other WH's who moved into slums to live with their OW. they were convinced that these women would have a better life, if only they had met "him" first. But the truth is - these women perpetuated this life, and they will continue to do so, dragging him down with them.

Your M can be saved, if your WH would only wake up before it is too late. I pray that he does - because the life he is building for himself right now is so ugly...........

Idey

I cant help but notice how similar your sig line is to mine WOW!
I am so sorry about your cancer. And so mad that your WH would abandon you at such a time you would need him the most. WTH!!