I have been married for almost five years. Our problems started two years ago when I found out he had ads on personal sites, some for dating and some exclusively for NSA sex. Then I opened an account of my own, posed as someone else and contacted him. We spoke for 3 days and finally arranged to meet, but of course when that time came me and the kids were packed up and 5 hours away. I was gone for a week and finally came back after he agreed to counseling which while very beneficial only lasted for 3 months because we had to move.
Our marriage overall has been a good one, but things like this just seem to keep happening. What makes it even harder is for a long time he would get sent all over the country for work and would sometimes be gone for months. I'll spare you the details of things that have happened unless you ask but I have found things like nude pictures of ex-girlfriends in his e-mail, communications with women about intimate details (some of them not true) about our personal lives along with conversations about sex, and even an instance of e-mails back and forth with a woman talking about how great the night before was. He has been confronted with all of them and afterwards we would work on our marriage and everything seemed fine until it would happen again. The last time was 10 months ago and we started self-counseling with the help of MB, which has been the savior of my sanity.
About that time I installed a keylogger/spyware program on the computer. Also about that time he became even more secretive with his cell phone than he had ever been before- keeping it on silent and on him at all times, only communicating via text, etc.
I've dealt with it and kept my mouth shut.
About 3 weeks ago there was finally an incident where I had had it. I told him I wanted a divorce and he cried and asked me to stay. I told him that would only happen if he got rid of all untraceable forms of communication (get detailed billing, get rid of text messaging..) I purposely left out his personal e-mail since thats all he has to fall back on and I can trace it. Also we would have to start counseling again. He agreed and has acted really excited about it. Last night I found an e-mail he had sent to a much younger female friend where he said that he is only trying to work things out because he feels bad for me and that divorce is inevitable. But he is the one who begs me to stay....
I've decided this is the last shot. I don't know much about Plan A and B, but I think what I have planned is similar. I'm going to spend 3-4 months being the perfect wife regardless of what he does. All the while I'm going into heavy evidence gathering mode and keeping my mouth shut. While I don't have any proof that he has been physical, I'm sure if I keep my cool I'll get it. I really want this to work but I'm not going to play the stupid blind wife for that to happen...
What do you guys think?

Hi there
I'm pretty new here as well, and certainly don't have all the answers (or even remotely close), but in reading your post from the emotional distance of an outside observer, my thought would be that he struggles with some form of addiction to sex. To the way the random physical partners and sexual stimulus make him feel. I've read that men often will express their satisfaction with women in terms of the way the woman make them feel. In my own situation, I've been told by my husband that he knows he loves me by the way I make him feel. I say this not to reflect on him that it is a selfish motivator, but that the first measure of his loving another person is how that person makes him feel. (vs. not how he feels for her). I think that to me that indicates that if a person is not able to feel fulfilled and centred in who they themselves are, they keep continually seeking that sense of esteem from outside sources, i.e. external motivators.
My first session with an absolutely exceptional psychologist was to seek help from a very destructive situation that I found myself in. His opening statements were to ask me what it was that I was looking for by coming to him. The answer - RELIEF! Relief from the discomfort and pain that I was in every day. The emotional pain that is inside of you, that you cannot escape. If we have never had experiences of how to adaptively develope coping mechanisms for dealing with emotional pain, our very survival depends on developing whatever coping mechanisms that we can - i.e. maladaptive coping mechanisms such as addictions to alcohol, drugs, cigarettes, work, television, sex, ANYTHING to provide relief from the emotional pain.

Recently I discovered that my husband, who I love more than anthing, but had been separated from for two months due to stresses of blending our family and dealing with a bipolar child, had become emotionally and sexually involved with another woman. One that didn't know him, and had no painful emotional history. She was a clean slate, and he could be whoever and whatever he wanted to be with her. In my inability to deal with the emotional pain of that over the past few weeks, I've posted several desperate postings here, completely buried myself in my career, AND, begun smoking again after 10 years of having quit. I am and was looking for some relief from the emotional pain. I did not know how else to stop the pain. (as I light a cigarette...sigh....) Smoking somehow became calming, giving me a tiny bit of relief (of course my disgust at myself for doing it again adds a whole new dimension to my misery as well...)

That your husband cried when you confronted him, in my opinion tells me he has pain from your confronting him. He cannot possibly love, or even like his true self, by using random physical release through sex. He cannot possibly get the true relief he is trying to achieve from the temporary "ecstacy" that he gets from the physical stimulus he is using. It is a brief respite, and he needs to keep doing it over and over to get the brief relief it gives him. Of course, we are complicated, intelligent beings, and ego, pride, fear, doubt and shame keep rearing their ugly heads and complicating our ability to clearly filter through why we do and don't do the things we do. I think that's why an alcholic has to reach bottom. It wipes away all those things and leaves the reality staring back at them.

These barriers we through up to complicate ourselves are very hard to break through - feeding our denial. Having someone love us and tell us that they see how we are trying to put a bandage on a gaping wound is very hard, as it means we have to really face the pain, untangle it all, sort through why it's there, make amends to those we hurt, and learn to turn off our negative filter and relearn all of our earlier coping strategies. They stay there tempting us with their brief emotional relief and when intense pain is present day after day, any relief at all is better than the pain.

(I hope you forgive the length of this - I'm actually purging myself of all of this while I write it, and I think I'm actually providing therapy for myself while I write...)

I suppose the bottom line of what I'm getting to, is that you can't heal his emotional pain for him. His emotional pain, however, spills over onto you, because you love him. The first step, the first baby step that you have to do is be kind and gentle to yourself, knowing you are coping the best you can in a horrible situation. Don't beat yourself up - embrace yourself. Love yourself. Pamper yourself like you would a small child that is suffering. Separate his pain from yours and know that he is not doing this TO you. He is doing this get relief from his pain. If you are centred, strong and emotionally healthy from learning how to self-love, you will become a haven in the storm for him. And maybe, just maybe, one day you can reach out a hand to him and he will trust you to help him find the help he needs to sort out his pain and learn coping mechanisms and skills to deal with his pain in a way that satisfies his emotional needs. We are not responsible, or even at all able, to ease anothers emotional pain.

I am writing this from a perspective that we do not innately have the desire to harm people around us in the way that we do. We only respond to triggers to protect ourselves, to ease our discomfort, to return to homeostasis, as all beings in this world do. We have an itch, we scratch it. We are thirsty, we drink. We seek to relieve the discomfort. Sometimes we use a hacksaw to cut off the arm that is itching. We don't know any other way, we don't know we can learn other ways - we are not born knowing how to do this.

I hope this gives you some emotional distance, in a practical sense, to see things a little differently. Write know you are so close to this, it is like having your nose pressed up against a mirror - you cannot see your own face clearly.

Take good care,
Chryss

Hi there HotC,

We hate betrayal and infidelity. So sorry you're here.

This guy does not seem to learn anything. Do you want to this for the rest of your life? How is this marriage good?

This guy is a serial cheater. He cheated two years after you were married. Bad sign.

Meanwhile, read the articles on this site. They are pure gold.

((Hug))

Be sure to check out RecoveryNation. They have a partner's section. See if it all sounds familiar.

Thank you all for your quick replies and support.
Oddly enough, when we first started seeing a counselor I suggested he may have a sex addiction. But after having years to reflect on it I think his self-esteem is completely based on what people think of him. He is a very attractive man and his entire life he has had people swoon over him. Can't even run into a convenience store without a compliment...its ridiculous. But compliments aren't enough to build his ego, he even admitted that he has to know they want him sexually to get the boost.
I know it sounds ridiculous to say we otherwise have a great marriage, but what I guess I'm trying to say is if we could get rid of this I know we could be together forever and be happy.
I suppose what I need to ask is how do meet someone's EN when the amount they need is impossible for one person to accomplish? I feel this is all based on his need for admiration and relationships are being formed based completely on that. I don't know what to do to make it stop, its not like there's just one woman that I can just forbid contact with.
I know deep down that its over, I just feel like I need to give it one more shot for my family's sake. And I won't lie, its hard letting go of something I know used to and could still be so great. I'm not crushed though, one thing I have learned by dealing with this as long as I have is that its not my fault. I may not be a perfect wife, but I'm a good one. I used to be a strong person but let go of it in order to be understanding and compromise. I can feel it coming back and lord help him...

Oh and believer thanks for the website. It will be nice to be have that to look at and maybe even show to him.

SA's usually have something that went bad in their childhood, and oddly enough, their addiction has little to do with sex, but is about control.

But, unless he goes to counseling and wants to change, he won't. It will be just more of the same.

Set the bar high.

Also, you might want to check out SAnon

Hi Hotchocolate. I can relate to the need for admiration - my husband is like that too. Extremely attractive, everytime we go out socially, women flock to him. He needs the attention. I thank God that it never progressed to having to be needed sexually (at least not that I know of). We both met eachothers needs there. That's been part of the problem actually- we were very attracted to eachother and it was incredible, but the rest was like a car wreck.

I don't know if it is over for you. Only you can know that. You are probably very right though; you alone can't fill all the needs that he has. It is not so simple as filling the top five needs. He needs more than that. Some of it is within him, and he has a journey to take if he ever sees that he has to.

You know that you are a good wife to him. You know that you've given him everything you could. You know that there is little else in your tool box to pull out to try fixing him. Building yourself up with therapy can give you more tools, but in the end you might find that it also gives you a peace in knowing that you are happier without him, and then you can break free of the entanglement emotionally and build a new life that makes you happy.

So I looked back over my intial reply about my husband not being a SA because he only does it (supposedly) to feed his ego. But then I realized thats a good a reason as any to have an addiction! Aren't SA's supposed to feel guilty about their actions though? Any remorse I pick up from him seems like its because he got caught... Is there anybody out there who was able to work things out with a SA?

It also may be relevant to note that about a year into our marriage he had problems with gambling...so much so that he had to go to GA. Thats what made me think this may be SA when everything first started...

Hi hotchocolate
My opinion is that an addict is an addict is an addict. What their addiction of choice is that day is the only difference. It's all about crutches. If he has had a gambling addiction before, it seems to me that a SA is just another page of the same book. God, sometimes don't you just wonder why some people are born under a different moon - everything rolls along without a bump. Same planet, different dimension....

Yeah thats sort of my thinking too. I remember when I first suggested it to him in front of the counselor I really didn't even have a clue what it was, just seemed logical to me that if someone wasn't actively working on bettering themselves after an addiction they would either return to the old one or find a new one...

Also-
Patrick Carnes is standard reading for sexual addition. "Out of the Shadows and Don't Call it Love" are the two often recommended. There's also a book for partners of SAs "Shattered Hearts."

If you don't have a chapter of S-Anon, COSA might be worth looking into.

I think we'll make it past my husband's sex addiction. It's taken alot of work on both of our ends. His to maintain sobriety and begin recovery. Mine to heal myself from my past and bring a healthy version of myself to fix the marriage. We still have communication issues, but things are so much better than they were.

You know that the marriage builder stuff doesn't work on an addict, right? So Plan A won't really work until your husband's sober.

My husband's therapist told me that it takes 3-5 years to heal from this. From my experience, and reading about the experiences of others, I'd have to agree with this.

I didn't read closely enough to notice what your husband was doing for his recovery. White knuckling this addiction doesn't work. Also-recovering alone from this addiction doesn't generally work, either. If you or your husband sees a therapist, be sure its one specialized in sex addictions. Regular therapists don't often recognize sex addiction and can cause more harm than good.

inrecoverynow,
Thank you for sharing with me and I admire your strength. I don't know how to even get him to admit there's a problem. I truly feel that he thinks what he does is innocent despite how much it hurts me. He acts like he's sorry, then turns right around and does it again.
Unfortunately therapy is probably out of the question. We live in an unbelievably small community that doesn't even have a general practice physician. I have already looked up S-Anon and there is a meeting an hour and a half away but its during the week so there's no way he could make it. I think I mentioned earlier that tonight we are staring our self-counseling, and I think I will bring it up, if nothing else just to get it out there. For now maybe I will try to look up some of your old posts and see if I can find something that would help...

Thanks so much to everyone who is replying with advice...I never imagined I would get so many suggestions and so much support on the first day I posted...

Wow! Solid.

I have to say, Imagine, I love Yeats, and I love your quote

Agreed.

It seems that your husband knows how to get you to keep enabling him and he never experiences the permanent consequences of his continued indulgence in his addiction.

Your situation warrants some consideration for going directly to Plan B. He wants the short term rush of risking his relationship, but never gets to experience the consequences of those risks - you are absorbing all of it for him.

If you go to Plan B, he MUST NOT be able to find out if you will take him back or divorce him. The unknown will put him into crisis. This crisis is what he needs to seek longer term help. You cannot take that responsibility to find his answers for him. You need to use all your energies to recover yourself and get out of his way.

"Adam fell, and Eve let him (even pushed)" - the words of one wise therapist who also jumped my case and asked me if I thought I was more powerful than God. "Of course not" - "Then get the **** out of his way! He is trying to reach your husband and you keep rescuing him, stepping in between God and your husband. Your husband needs a real 'Come to Jesus' meeting!"

With that, there was a six month separation, and then five years where I never once let Kasey off the hook thinking that he could take for granted that he'd have a roof over his head. (Kasey is my husband and has posted here - mostly on the Emotional Needs forum under "Kasey" or "sufficientgrace". He even put extra carpeting in the back of a van we inherited, thinking that at least he'd have a comfortable bed if I got fed up with him.

I would totally recommend no emotional response, and no clues as to what you are thinking of doing. He needs to be out of the home now though. I'd go no further than tell him "You need help. Here's some reference material and a name, but it's your choice because I'm not making any promises that even if you come back a saint that I'll take you back. I'm going into thinking mode and you'll know when we're ready to talk. Here's your way to that conversation." then hand him a Plan B Letter - have an intermediary set up for contacting about arrangements with kids or bills or legal things, but he is not to feel free to call you or email you or text you directly until he's met those conditions.

Ok, I have to admit I'm feeling a little lost. Part of the reason for my resolve was that I thought I had come up with a good plan but everyone seems to think it needs to be changed.
I'm still struggling with whether or not he has an addiction. I truly think that he thinks this is what men do (and most of the friends in his life always did until they got married-who knows what they do now). I've explained to him thats what boys do, real men are faithful to their wives in every way. Real men don't just go by what their idea of infidelity is, they go by their wives too because thats who its going to affect. Last night while we were having our talk I brought up SA and he said that we should look into more, that may have been the problem in the past but it won't be anymore (we'll see).
I know that Plan B needs to happen and it needs to happen soon, but I really feel that when it happens I need to destroy his world, partially for vengeance and partially for impact. I want him to have the perfect wife according to his needs when he gets the boot, and I want to expose him to his family for what he really is. The only evidence I have is from the things that happened 10 months ago and if it doesn't take too long I want something from the present as well. I want everyone to see this is a recurring problem. If I don't do it that way he will spin it into being something he is trying so hard to work through with me and I just can't let go...
I also don't know what to do about an intermediary. We need someone nearby since we have children but the only people we have here are mutual friends (his since childhood) and his mother. I suppose his mother will do it, but she may get resentful about being in the middle and that won't help my case. I have more questions to ask but perhaps I should just go buy the book, I don't want it to look like I'm making excuses...

Hi everyone, just bumping my topic.

Also, thinking about going to the bookstore today. If you could only recommend one book for my situation, be it about affairs, SA, or whatever, what would it be?

Sorry, I don't have one book. Just several. lol

One that might encompass everything might be the Boundaries book by Cloud and Townsend. There's a number of their boundary books they've put out.

I also wanted to let you know that COSA has an online component. SAA (or maybe it's just SA) has phone meetings now. No need to travel long distances for recovery.

I was also "fortunate" that my husband knew he had a "problem" and had long wanted to quit. So it wasn't like I had to do anything for my husband to see he was an addict. My husband's addiction had escalated, but not to the level of physical cheating.

I didn't do plan B. I told him addiction or family. I was prepared to divorce if addiction was the answer. I simply didn't want to fool around with this.