Cinder, Barbie,

Thanks guys. I just got an email from my atty. WH has now filed for D and is claiming gross neglect of duty, cruelty, etc. The document says there is no hope for reconcilation. It claims that he never wanted anything to do with the business etc.

It sure hurts and I can't stop crying for some reason. I'll have to come back later to finish this post.

(((CHAI))) Just remember sweetie, he can CLAIM anything he wants, but can he PROVE it? People put all kinds of allegations in legal papers but in the end and a lot of time the language is just boilerplate stuff. Don't worry about it, let your attorney deal with it. Sounds like he's on the run.

Thanks PM. As I read further it says something about me denying marital relations. I guess it means not enough SF. Hard to believe that was put into a court document. I guess we all hope for recovery, but I just don't know how that is possible after this.

I just want to throw up right now....

I'm very sorry, CL. Your WH is still very foggy and deserves to be whacked in the crotch with a shovel.

I haven't heard anything that makes it sound like reconciliation is a possibility. He never responded to any of the Jennifer-letters, right? There's not really any chance he's sitting on the other end maybe starting to recognize that reconciliation would be good but not viewing it as a possibility out of pride or stubborness. That his filing is just reacting to your filing? It doesn't sound like that's the case--it sounds like he's still in fully foggy "this is what I want" mode, so he won't be interested in reconciliation.

If you're not sure, you can reach out with the "It doesn't have to be this way" contact.

Failing that, I think you have to protect yourself and go ahead with the divorce. It doesn't mean that you couldn't still reconcile down the road if you're still interested, but if he's still fully wayward, you might as well get it over with. You'll begin to feel better once you do.

You asked whether it ever gets better. It does.

CL

Well, it gets worse. Evidently WH thinks that I must have money hidden or something. The document is asking me to produce documents for the last 5 years including cancelled checks, credit card statements, etc. Basically almost every piece of paper that has gone through my hands. I have 28 days to do it. It will cost a fortune in copies. Much of it I don't even have anymore.

Is it worth writing an email and asking him to consider settling out of court? This is going to cost more than we both have.

Advice please. I just can't think straight right now....

We cross-posted.

From where I sit, the risk in reaching out to him is that he is still fully wayward and he snarls back at you. You would see your WH in all his madness. It wouldn't be pretty is the kind of thing you usually protect yourself from. At the same time, you would find out who and what you're dealing with. Are you prepared for that?

There might be other risks, too, that I'm not thinking of.

There are certainly good things that could come from it. I would consider it.

See what others think.

Thanks SD. Right now, I'm gobsmacked. I'm sure it is in retaliation for me filing the LSA for A and asking for spousal support. What else can I do? I've tried to support myself over the last year, but I just can't do it through my business, at least until I get the loan paid off. I've tried working too, but I end up with what is basically two full time jobs (a job and the business). The business usually suffers. I've even tried moving the business, but the current economy has hit me pretty hard.

For years, WH wanted nothing to do with finances. Nothing. Now he is treating me like a criminal.

I just can't afford the atty fees that are going to come out of this. Hours and hours reviewing and consolidating paperwork, copies, negotiations etc. My atty already recommended that I look at filing bankruptcy. Maybe I should. WH's name is second on the list.

HELP!! Anyone else besides SD??

Cl, have you asked for him to explain the money he spent on OW yet. If you have, this could be a diversion, a legal maneuver, and nothing more. Step back and look at the big picture. He ain't the IRS as far as demanding copies of all your paperwork. Maybe your tax returns would be sufficient to show what he is asking for. He's reaching, looks to me. GF

Chai, this is a standard "request for production" in discovery. You can't produce what you don't have. The Courts will not make you respond to unreasonable requests. Your attorney can object on the grounds that it is harassing, overly-burdensome, etc. (there are a ton of standard objections he can use.)

Usually what happens is you can say that they are welcome to copy originals AND pay for any copies that they want. There are certain things that won't even be relevant. It's your attorneys job to review the docs and determine what falls within the scope of reasonable discovery. AND it should NOT be your attorney reviewing this (more $$$) but a paralegal (whose rates are way cheaper than an attorney.) Sounds like they're just throwing everything out there to throw you off balance.

You can always get an extension on the discovery requests.

Your attorney should be sending the SAME kinds of requests to your husband.

Please let your attorney handle this. TELL YOUR ATTORNEY that you don't have the funds to do this and that you want him to set up mediation before anymore discovery happens. I can't believe your attorney is suggesting that you file for bankruptcy!

Remember, he works for you!

Mediation is the way to go to AVOID the expense of a protracted discovery fight, depositions and then a costly trial.

GF,

Yes, my atty requested this before and he has never produced it. His only statement regarding this in the response was that there was no indebtedness from a 3rd party. In other words, she paid him back. Bullhockey. He ran up thousands in credit card debt supporting her, and I doubt she paid him back. Maybe not in cash....

PM,

This is standard? I don't understand what copies of cancelled checks, credit card statements etc from 5 years ago will prove. Banks stopped sending out cancelled checks years ago, so I don't even have them. I am going to call my atty tomorrow and ask him why I am the one that has to do all of this. I just don't have the money for thousands in atty fees. WH doesn't either, so I'm not sure what he is trying to prove. My atty suggested that because of the store debt and the shrinking of my savings in trying to support myself, I may want to look at bankruptcy options. Of course I don't want to. So far, I've meeting my payments on things but it is getting tougher.

Chai,

I have no words on wisdom. No understanding of the legal matters at all.

I don't even know what to say, because asking you to believe and have faith in G-d probably seems pretty lame. BUT I am going to DO just that.

PLEASE Chai, put your FAITH in G-d. He will get you through this. I PROMISE YOU...

Hi CL,

Just read your last few pages.

I would agree with PM:


Discuss your concerns with your lawyer and see what he has to say about it. His requests do sound unreasonable.

As you know, I had no intention of ever considering mediation, but for money reasons I changed my mind. I think contact with a WS is to be avoided for reasons SD suggests, but at least a mediator might get through to WS, should you ever want to consider it and your WS agree to it, that it's in his self-interest to figure out a way to 'settle it'...and also keep the dialogue 'respectable'. Do you think he has the money to pay a lawyer to drag this out to a costly court case?

BTW, I don't suggest re-reading your thread. Trust in the fact that if you are still STANDING you have come a long way! :RollieEyes:

Sorry about the 'blues'... and dwelling on the uncertainties of the future....can't be anything else but...SCARY! :crosseyedcrazy:

....try and refocus on what you can do TODAY... things will seem more manageable... and get you moving! That's the approach that so far I have found helpful.

CL

You can reread your thread some day when you're feeling better. When things are different.

Hey SD,

Thanks for the reply. I just now saw the one posting from you last evening. I had missed it before.

The answer is ""no" he did not respond to my Jennifer emails last year, and not to any other emails that I sent regarding our DD and her sitch. My Dd said this morning that he filed for D because I asked for support. She said that he was mad because I had someone else call him when he had the heart attack - that I did not call him myself. Well, wtf does he expect? He told me he didn't want to be M, he told my friend that he wanted nothing to do with me, etc.

Here's what I've decided to do. It's been such an up and down year for me. There have been times when I would do anything to save this M, and times where I don't want it anymore - times when I've been done. I guess it is all part of the process.

Anyway, I bought the Love Dare book and read it over the last two evenings. The book helped me realize that what I have developed over the last 35 years is what it explained as "agape" love - unconditional. It also used the analogy that Tabby used in another thread - that of losing an apendage. You wouldn't just throw it away and hope that you grew a new one. You would try everything you could to attach it back.

So, I got up early this morning to take Dd to a doctor appt. With me, I took the book wrapped in brown handmade paper and asked her to give it to her dad. On the way to the doctor is when she told me about the D and heart attack thing. I was going to leave it at that thinking the book might say something, but in the end I decided to write one more Jennifer style letter reiterating one more time why the Plan B and no contact, and that "it doesn't have to be this way." If there is no response, then I will forever let this go and continue with the D not looking back. I need to leave this M knowing that I did everything I could short of allowing a third person in it. I don't know if it's the right thing to do, but as Jennifer says "what do you have to lose?"

SD, I am going to look at your thread because I think you at one point had a very good letter that I would like to borrow if you don't mind.

Luna and Queenie. Also thanks to both of you for your support too. Your words have saved me many times. I love you both...


And Luna, no, he does not have money to drag this out. Neither one of us do.

Wow Chai, that gave me goosebumps. 35 years IS a long time to throw away without a fight. Just please don't expect anything. Even if he were to turn around today, he obviously needs a lot of personal counseling (as my husband did), and you guys together would need a lot of healing. I'm praying for you!

Thanks PM. I hope that you would tell me it is worth it.

I won't expect anything since I've gotten no response in the past, but if I'm going down, I'm going down knowing that I did everything that I could.

CHAI!

If it matters, we had a lot of discovery tossed about in our divorce proceedings and I don't think either of us ended up producing those documents.

Chai, it sounds to me like you have done about all you can. If you really wish, you can send the letter. But, don't hold your breath hoping he will make the choice you want.

I just don't have words of great wisdom today. Not feeling wise.

Thanks Cinder. I'm beginning to hear from several people that no one ever produces all the documents. I'm not as worried about it anymore.

I know Cinder, I feel like I did pretty much all I could too. He looks at Plan B as punishment and vindictiveness. He just doesn't get it. I just feel like I need to make one more round to convince myself that I really did do all I could do.

This is making it impossible for me to concentrate on anything else right now, which is not good.

Hi CL,


I agree, which is why Plan B is necessary for protection... as the love is not 'conditional' on behaviour...and so WS could do a lot of damage...


At intervals I have also reached out...like you, just to be sure or to confirm the 'no change' status of WS...

...from my experience, you can minimize the 'expectations' all you want, regardless...there is a risk, so don't be surprised if it will mean you will be riding the rollercoaster a bit, even the shortest ride....I try to see it as 'investing', at having less regrets and some peace of mind knowing that you did all you could, for later!

...maybe it will make it easier to have the energy it will take to go through Plan D? ...because that's what I am struggling with right now, too.


...because this to me is an indication that you are still dealing with a wayward...blaming others and not taking responsibility...and the likelihood is that WS is not ready to 'hear' what you have to say.

Anyways, we're here supporting you in whatever you need to do to get to, what is known around here, as 'the other side'.

CL

Good morning, Chai

I caught up with your thread this morning and agree with the others. Your WH is still too deep in the fog, IMHO. Mine is like that, too.

One advantage to this is when you DO get into court, the judge will most likely be able to see this. Your WH will be REACTING and not thinking through some of his decisions and demands. We know that waywards are an unreasonable lot - this will show through in court.

I wouldn't sweat the discovery too much. There is no ORDER telling you to provide these documents. Explain to your attorney that you cannot provide this information and why.

And don't let WH off with simply saying he is innocent with the finances. Bullpucky! Demand HIS statements, etc.

It's a scare tactic - don't fall for it.

You're doing fine, Chai. One foot in front of the other. When you are going through he!!, just keep going.

I don't recommend sending him anymore letters. It's certainly your choice, but I think you will continue to be met by venom.

Like I told luna, you deserve so much more. Know it and demand it.

Fox