Ok, I made it through!! Went out with WH and held my own with MB guidance. Strove to meet EN's, no LB's and also held my own re: I do not desire a divorce.
WH agreed to talk with Harley's, hopefully this week. I really stressed that his working with this coach would help us recover from the affair, which I stressed was my focus. I hope they have a productive conversation and WH gets something out of it.
He was still very angry about exposure. Apparently, OW is afraid I will show up at her work! I told WH that she is sooo not that important to me. As in, she is nothing to me and certainly not someone I respect or will spend my time worrying about. But yes, he is still married to me and their activities are an affair and I cannot support it.
I think he felt a little relieved to hear that I am not on a vindictive tear, and that from my perspective, I have informed those I feel I need to.
Feeling stronger today and boy do I hope it continues. I don't like having crazy, selfish people run my life -- it stinks!
BF439

Good job on holding your own, bf! I recognized Steve's words in your script, and I HAVE to tell you that they turned things around for my FWH. He had been in the A for 6 months at that point, he knew I wanted to repair the marriage, he knew that he DID NOT LOVE ME.

BUT, he was willing to talk to Steve to "help ME get on with my life." He told me after their first session that he didn't think Steve was very bright (LOL!) and seemed "confused." (Projection, or what?) Steve said at the end of their 1st conversation that he hadn't really gotten all the information he needed, and would FWH be willing to talk again?

FWH said yes. After that second session (about a week after the first one), he called me to ask if I wanted to go to the MB weekend that just happened to be in a city near us two weeks later! (Was that God, or what?)

We went; he was cold and distant the whole weekend. Still totally fogged out. But he gave his word he would do the work of the program. IT TOOK A MORE THAN A YEAR for him to really settle in and get into the lessons (and he continued to talk to OW for a couple of months after that weekend), but with me busting my hump to meet his EN's and spending WAY more than 15 hours a week together, we broke through the barrier.

NOBODY was more surprised than I was, although the stress of it over all those months nearly did me in. Recovery is NOT for wimps.

Can't say it will work exactly the same way for you, but that's how it evolved for me.

Faith, baby. Keep the faith.

Thanks, RTW, I don't have a lot of hope at this point, but I do have some. Hopefully he can talk with Steve and at least start to see things a little differently.
As for me, I'm about to head out of town today and hope to enjoy my time away recoup a little of me. Your right, recovery is not for the faint of heart and you got to take care of yourself!!!

I've been reflecting all day about WH's anger and concern about exposure. He kept insisting that it was hurting me, but I continued to say that the people who care about me understand (with the exception of MIL) and that exposure did not hurt me at all. Nor does it hurt the kids. I really can't see that it does anything except hurt their future chances in establishing their relationship as anything other than one built on betrayal. Is that vindictive?
The whole conversation felt a little crazy (I'm hurting me and the kids by exposing your hurtful behavior???!!! Help me out with the logic on that one!)
P.S. He is scheduled to talk with Harleys this Friday.
BF439

He is going so much by the book that I think things are very hopeful. They all think that exposure of the affair, and not the actual affair is what is hurting everyone.

The MB thought is that if the affair not hurting the family, then what is wrong with exposing it?

But he has agreed to talk to hte Harley's, so give him lots of admiration for trying to make things better.

He definitely talks like he understands that the affair has hurt everyone, but he still talks about how is love for her (and lack of love for me) outweighs it.
I don't know where his head is and I just feel so much better to know I can keep moving forward for myself.
BF439

Don't worry about where his head is right now. All of this is coming together well.

When he moves into his apartment, will he be able to pay child support and his share of the bills at the family home?

OW may move in with him. Prepare for that, but it is really the good news, because it will be the beginning of the end of the fantasy.

Yes, he has a plan to upkeep all the household expenses and pay for his apartment with his part-time consulting work. He would be completely ostrasized by his family if he did not take care of the kids. Of course, he wants to take care of me, too, just not as my husband...
I don't think OW will move in because she has cool trendy apartment and his will be tiny, ucky 1 bedroom in un-cool part of town closer to his kids. Also, he plans to accomodate three kids in it 50% of the time. I feel much better about the apartment -- even if he moves out does not meant a particular outcome. But, I do anticipate that they will begin contact as soon as he has better place to be.
Who knows. I told him last night, he can have contact with her if that's what he wants, but it hurts me every time, and my request for him to end the affair stands. I also stressed to him, that if he plans to have her in his life, then she is my business since she will be around my kids. I told him all I really know about her is what she does for a living and that she sleeps with married men. Not really the kind of person I'd like my kids exposed to!
BF439

Well, it will be interesting to see him having 3 kids in his tiny apartment. Expect him to have the OW around them. That is what they usually do, like one big happy family. But that ruins the fantasy too.

Hi bf,

Glad you're headed out of town today for a little R&R. With kids? Without kids? Either way, pamper yourself as much as you can--a vase of fresh-cut flowers, a scented candle on the nightstand, maybe some lovely soap for your bath.

You've been beaten up pretty good, and have been doing an amazing job of holding on to yourself. Give yourself a little reward for your efforts.

WH is still deep in fog, that's clear. Keep doing what you're doing, and give Steve a shot or two at him.

Your man is running the stereotypical wayward script, by the numbers, without complications like substance abuse, internet porn addiction, physical abuse, etc. This is GOOD because you can work a straightforward Plan without all the add-ons those things would require.

There are never any guarantees, of course, but I see a lot of hope in your sitch. Really, I do.

Hang in there!

Right Here Waiting

I'm really enjoying my time away from home and all the drama, but I feel so ambivilant about leaving kids with at home with WH. He was supposed to talk with the harley's yesterday, but he did not say anything about it. I don't want to get my hopes up, but if the conversation did not impact him, I feel like I will just give up...
When I talked witty my coworkers, tho, I'm blown away to learn how many people are dealing with same thing -- WH's! What is up with men?!!!
BF439

bf,

Glad you're getting a little breather. You don't have any reason to believe your kids would be in harm's way in your WH's care, do you?

Time enough to learn if he's spoken with Steve. If he has, you might want to have another session to get Steve's input. He's really good at assessing where a wayward is at, and therefore what YOUR next step should be.

When my FWH was in all-out, full-blown A mode, after talking to him once, Steve told he was "VERY dangerous right now," and I should "protect my heart." Please take care of YOURS.

Do NOT get your hopes up yet, concentrate on keeping YOUR head screwed on straight. That's work enough for the moment.

And, yes, it is tragic to learn how many people in your life are taking their blows from this terrible demon, infidelity. It's probably left more casualties than both World Wars (and it ain't just the men dealing out the pain).

A friend of mine who'd "been there" told me when I started this journey that, no matter how it turned out for me, I would be irrevocably changed in two ways:
1) I would be more patient than I could ever imagine I could be, and 2) I would become more compassionate because of what I'd gone through. She was right on both counts.

Well, I got back from my trip and we had out birthday dinner as a family. He told me he talked to Steve after I asked and he said that it was not what I said it would be and that he wouldn't be talking to him again. Later, he said again, that's not where he is and that he has tried for 13 years to make it better. Again, back to whole marriage was awful.
I'll try to talk to Steve this week, but I need to end contact with him all together. I just get hurt over and over again. I don't understand why he wants to take care of me, but doesn't want to be my husband. Why does he want to be my friend if not in a marriage with me. Plan A has just knocked my self-esteem in the toilet and I have no respect for myself anymore. He, again, gets to decide what our marriage was and was not and what are healthy choices for everyone.
Very low tonight and really just so tired of this being my life.
BF439

I'm so tired of spending my time thinking about all this!!! I really need some advice about how to cope. I'm in Plan A, have talked to the Harleys, but I think WH is in too deep and I need to get away from him! Can I go modified Plan A (limited contact, but nice to him when I do?) or limited Plan B (no contact except for email for kid/family business?)I don't know if I could go dark yet and I don't know if I've tried Plan A enough?!!
I know he is still in contact with OW, probably by phone and electronically.
What I know is every time I have contact with him, he is nice and then reinforces how he doesn't want me and it kills me! Even a few short months ago, he was at least "there for me" --although lying to me.
I know the affair is "going by the book" but I don't know if I'm strong enough to last! Please share what ideas got you through!
BF439

bf,

I'm so sorry you're feeling so tired. Plan A is HARD, that's why it must be limited in time. You HAVE done an exemplary Plan A, but even you have your limits. I read somewhere that Harley said it should be shorter for women, like four to six weeks, but it's certainly an individual thing.

Can't tell whether your love bank totally depleted, or you're just having a bad stretch, but my guess is that you want to start preparing for Plan B.

As for "modifying" Plan A, Steve told me to do just that--light friendly contact, but then we were living apart at the time, so I don't know how or whether he'd advise such a thing for you. Might you talk to him once more? To get his take on WH as well as how you can protect yourself now?

I KNOW that there is no such thing as a modified Plan B. When you go dark, it's supposed to be pitch black. Let the wayward see what life totally without you is like. Then he has to rely completely on OW to meet all needs, and she almost never can.

It's a big step, though. Before you do it, read up on it thoroughly. You'll have to find a mediator b/c you yourself are to have NC with WH.

Gotta run now but will come back shortly.

For now, don't do anything rash.

Right Here Waiting

I'm back. Wanted to respond to some other things you said, but had to run.

"He told me he talked to Steve...he said that it was not what I said it would be...that's not where he is and that he has tried for 13 years to make it better. Again, back to whole marriage was awful."

What did you TELL him it would be that he's objecting to now? The ideal of having him be in love with the mother of his children? Steve told me that, although I don't know whether he said that to my then-WH. Our kids were grown and gone. But my H's reaction to that first conversation was that Steve "didn't seem very bright," and that Steve "seemed confused." That startled me, but I think my H was projecting his OWN state onto Steve.

But there's no question that your WH is still fully wayward and totally fogged. Of COURSE hearing all that had to drain more units out of your already depleted love bank! You can only take so much.

It would be great to get Steve's advice before you take further steps, but if you can't, or until you do, why don't you back off a bit? Be pleasant, but take yourself off full throttle. What could you do to regroup? What does bf need right now?

I hope some of the others will jump in and lend a hand.

RHW

I talk with Steve tomorrow, so I am not going to do anything until then. I have my Plan B rough draft started and I'm about 1/3 of the way through SAA.
I could probably manage a modified Plan A, but what BF needs a break from WH! I don't know if its my love bank is draining, but trying to meet his EN's when he's in deep fog is demoralizing. I think he relieves a lot of guilt by his psuedo-care of me and the kids, as well as feeling like he is still part of our family. I let him be around because I could try to meet EN's, but I think its too much for me emotionally.
Maybe instead of a big announcement, I slowly push him back out of our lives, while still supporting that he see the kids. Having him with the kids will give me more time to do what I want to do without the focus being on him.
Thanks for responding! I'll take any and all advice for coping strategies at this point, because I feel like I keep letting the hurt get the best of me!
Oh, yeah, what I told him was exactly what Steve told me to, but when he pushed I stressed it was about recovering from an affair, which is my focus. He stressed that he did not want to talk to anyone about the marriage because he was resolved, so that is probably what he balked about. We'll see what Steve says.
BF439

I think I would get involved in making my life better, and put Hubby on the back burner for now, until you feel stronger.

It is encouraging that he talked to Steve, even though he didn't like it. Be assured that some of what was discussed will sink in, and it is better coming from another man than from you.

I think you need to start preparing yourself for Plan B, but check with Steve. Because to do a good Plan B, you really have to be ready for it.

I don't think I'm ready for Plan B, but I think I do need a modified Plan A, for my own sanity! I had an IC appointment today and I really tried to focus on what I am want to do to take care of myself.
One thing is that I really feel like I need some structure around childcare. I feel like WH is driving this since he doesn't have his own place and the kids don't really want to go where he lives. But I need a break! I need down time from the kids to clean and recoup a little of my sanity!
I think I'll stay positive, and email him some suggestions without going to "you aren't welcome here," kind of thing. That way if I stay in Plan A, I haven't shot myself in the foot.
I don't think I could quite manage what Trying2Live has (although she is my inspiration) because I was so knocked in the gut about his reaction to Steve. Yes, that was me crying as he walked out again saying how he doesn't love me...
I totally agree with Believer, tho, I need to focus on myself and what do I want to do. Where that gets a little complicated for me is I tend to include the kids in that equation, where Wh doesn't have to (its all about him and his OW)!
So, my IC and I came up with some non-LB ways to give me some space from WH and some ways to cope. I really enjoy the holidays and will definitely miss him this year, but most of what we did, I handled anyway. At least the kids will have a great time!
"We need a little Christmas, right this very minute!!!!" the lights are going up ASAP!!
BF439
ME: 38
WH: 40
Kids: 12,11,4
Dday: 6/30/08; and again 10/25/08.
Currently working a Plan A (tho, feeling pretty bad at it!)

So I had my second session with Steve Harley today and sometimes I feel so confused about what to do! He talked with WH last week and from WH's perspective it "isn't where he's at," and he won't be talking to him again. What Steve said, tho, is that WH agreed with the logic, but is in deep fog. So he suggested I consider myself in a guarded Plan A, know that I may not be able to attempt to meet his EN's, because of how I need to care for myself, but that I am not at the place for PB (although he felt I would definitely have to go there).
I keep reminding myself that I have made the choice to hang in there because it is the right thing to do, but that this is going to be a long process. I have to just focus on one week (one day, too) at a time.
Any suggestions for how to handle knowing its going to get worse before it gets better? I keep telling myself (and others tell me)that "what more could happen?" But because of the path that I have taken, I feel like it is going to get worse first!
Thoughts??
BF439

Me: 38
WH: 40
Kids: 12, 11, 4
D day: 6/30/08 and again (fully)10/25/08
Working a Guarded Plan A