One more thought/question. WH dropped off youngest tonight and I gave him some food to take with him -- he used to love my cooking, but of course, I've barely cooked since D-day. Anyway, I get the thanks and a hug (first hug in a week) and after he leaves I want to go shower off. Is this a sign that I am close to PB? I can't stomache being nice to someone who is selfishly destroying my family.
After D-day I had this symptom of very focused heat on the back of my neck and up my skull. Its creeping back again... Does anyone else have that? I really believe learning that the person you trust most in the world has betrayed you through an affair is sooo traumatic and that you have symptoms just like PTSD...
BF439

The heat in your neck is probably anger. I used to get so angry that my whole body heated up.

You can ask that he not have the skank around your kids, but most WS's do.

Yes, probably anger - got lots of that.
I has a particularly hurtful email tonight from WH. Email about kids and finances, but apparently he needs more separation from me for his "mental health." I don't know, maybe because I am not willing to walk away from a marriage I am cruel??!!!
That sent me on a complete crying jag! I cannot get over the cruel things he says to me! Does he even know they are cruel? He must, because he even said that he doesn't want to seem cold, but how else would you describe it?
I think also he is reading my posts; I'm not sure how much longer I can be here, but I know what I am going to do and when.
At least I have hope for my mental well-being...
BF439

I don't think he thinks he is being cruel. I think he doesn't understand why you can't just 'get it.' The fog.

You were asking on another thread about D12 being so angry. I think she is old enough now to know all that is going on (except SF details of course), how you feel, how H makes you feel, and any compassion you may still have for him. Might mention that you hope she will retain some compassion for him; he's only human, and he's a male (thinks with 2 brains), so what can you expect?

Encourage her to tell you how she's feeling, to keep a journal, to find another family member she can talk to, or even set her up with a good psychologist, so she'll have someone to talk to.

Also encourage her to speak up to H about how she feels. Good for both of them. If she is afraid to, encourage her to write it out in a card and send it to him. It will be very powerful for her to be able to tell him.

bf,

You are correct in assuming that a wayward's cruelty, and and all the hurtful things they say and do while they are caught up in the selfishness of an affair, does indeed create PSTD in the betrayed. This is why WE need counseling and medication to get through it. It is a deep trauma to mind and body, worse than gang rape, as reported by those who have suffered both. Serious stuff.

Why do you think women who've always had trouble losing weight (no matter how hard they try) drop 30, 40, 50 pounds in a matter of weeks because they are suddenly unable to eat? Who always slept like babies suddenly cannot sleep at all? Who cannot even focus on the simplest tasks at jobs they have always performed so well?

On top of the trauma that so horribly affects our hearts and our bodies, we discover that it is up to US to make the herculean efforts required to save a marriage only one of us wants...Adds insult to injury. Feels not only unfair, but IMPOSSIBLE. We feel so crushed, so powerless, and still our WS continues to pummel us with cruel words and heartless actions, caring only about himself. Doesn't care about your pain.

But somehow we dig down deep, regroup and put up the fight of our lives to protect what is dear to us. And quite often, if we can stick it out, we get our H and M back, only by then we realize it isn't the OLD M we got back, or wanted back. There is still much more work to do on ourselves, to bring a better self back to the relationship, to make it better too.

It is only once our WHs are convinced that we CAN deal with it, CAN allow them back after what they've done to us, that there is any hope they will try. And that won't happen until THEY see that the OW is NOT the answer to all their problems. That takes time. Waywards are NOTORIOUSLY lacking in self reflection. The rewrite the marital history, make YOU the cause of ALL the problems you had, without seeing the obvious. That they contributed too, and have chosen a stupid path that even they will regret in the end, whether your marriage is reconciled or not. Look at Believer. TWO WEEKS after their divorce was final, her WH's affair imploded. What happened to the "true love" he'd found with his "soul mate?" Now he wants to come back, but she'd already spent all her love on trying to reconnect, and now she doesn't want him. He diddled around too long. So sad, especially for HIM, because SHE is fine. Bet he never saw THAT coming!

Read the posts by formerly wayward H's and W's. You won't see the ones that never recovered, because they are lost, but you hear about their unhappiness when folks like Believer report the endings.

Right now, you still have reason to believe that your WH will figure it out before it's too late. Keep doing what you're doing to let him know the door is open, once he gives OW up. You really don't WANT him before that happens anyway.

Stay strong. It's clear to me that he would be throwing away the best thing that ever happened to him if he doesn't wake up. Odds are, he will. But you have to protect what little love is left for him or it won't work for YOU when the time comes. Good luck with Plan B...it ISN'T FOR HIM. IT'S FOR YOU.

Right Here Waiting

catperson,

"...he's only human, and he's a male (thinks with 2 brains), so what can you expect?"

With all due respect, did you REALLY mean to advise bf to tell her 12-year-old daughter that men are just "that way," and "what can you expect?"

How disrespectful of men, to paint with such a broad brush.

What message does that give the child about what she can expect from marriage, that she should perceive men as helpless animals, slaves to their basest desires? Is she to understand that she can expect that any H she chooses will behave this way, and she has no option but to think it's normal and she must suffer it?

I think much better to offer the explanation that "Daddy has made a big mistake. It isn't right to be married and have a girlfriend at the same time. But I love Daddy and am trying to let him know that I want to help him undo his mistake and be the husband and dad he's always been to us before."

That would be showing the child the "compassion" you mentioned was necessary.

Perhaps this was not the message you intended to convey at all, or just a bad moment for you. I just felt I had to object before bf followed what I believe to be bad advice to her young daughter. No offense meant to you.

Right Here Waiting

What I meant was that she needs to tell DD that this isn't on her. That the decisions he is making have nothing at all to do with how he feels about her, but that people can sometimes get carried away by an emotion and forget all common sense. I think DD needs to see her father as a flawed person, just like the rest of us; if not, she will assume it is her who is making him do hurtful things. As silly as that sounds, that's what kids do, unless you show them that adults mess up, too.

I totally get how people on here said you'd know when you are done with Plan A and I know I am there. I am wrapping up details this week, but I believe that if I don't cut contact with him, I will have no love left for him. Also, the rollercoaster hasn't stopped and I just need to get off for my own sanity. I don't know if I did a good Plan A or not. It was hard, because its not like he wanted me to meet any EN's. Yesterday he even made a comment about needing space for his own well-being, encouraging me to go to B. I'm so effing sorry -- has he not been getting what he needs? That sort of did it for me. He knows about PB, and he may be reading posts here, so I don't know if anyone has any advice re: that. Should I post the letter here beforehand or not?
I think my kids already get it about WH, but I will have to explain PB to them as well. Last night was a bad crying night after I read some of his cruel words and I could tell it was just killing my kids, but sometimes I just have to cry. We talked later, but I still hate that they know how sad/angry I am.
I put up another post for an IM -- I don't think WH would want any of our friends or family, since everyone is so angry with him anyway. I hope someone is willing to do it!
BF439

Gotcha, catperson.

bf,

I think you've done one of the best Plan A's I've seen anybody do. The fact that he can't hear ya says WAY more about him than it does about you. Against a closed, foggy mind, God Himself is helpless.

You've given it your all. If he remains hellbent on this wonderful new life he's building without you and that will result in a broken family, he's losing his best shot at a happy life. All you can do is protect yourself and your kids from further harm.

But you have shown such self-discipline, such grace, such courage, that there is no doubt you will be fine, with or without him. His loss.

As far as finding an intermediary once you cut off all contact and let him go his merry way...are you SURE there is no one in your circle of trusted friends who could handle it? Hard for it to be any of us--but perhaps there ARE folks here who have done that for other posters. Not having been through Plan B myself, I don't think I could do it.

You simply need somebody who will NOT carry messages or updates back and forth about what either of you are doing, now that you've given up trying to show him what he refuses to see. Someone who will ONLY convey necessary info about finances, child visits and such, and will make it clear to him that NO other messages will get through until he loses OW. Period. You do not want to deal with him until that happens. Until that happens, for you, he is the most dangerous thing there is on the planet. You must be protected from any more poison. It's killing you.

And if he lets it go on too long, you will come to the realization that you are indeed better off without him, and when the day (almost inevitably) comes that he wants back in, you will have no trouble saying "No thanks." I know you don't want to get there, which is why you're going dark now. But given enough time, that is exactly where you'll go, and a late wake-up on his part won't mean diddly. I hope it doesn't come to that, for his sake and yours. And your kids too.

Blessings as you build a happy life free of his poisonous activities.

Right Here Waiting

Neighbor/sitter agreed (readily) to be intermediary! I have letter written -- used T2L's example and the one from the book and added a little of my own stuff. PB -day coming soon!!! I hope I am ready. I anticipate lots of blowback for being "unreasonable," but I can't imagine anyone really expecting me to do more at this point. I hope I can stick to it. Maybe I'll start a new hobby -- like, um, geez, I don't know! Give me some ideas of how to occupy my mind during Plan B so I don't communicate!
BF439

Well, I got very busy. I had to, because I thought about him constantly.

I started my own business, started a garden, cleaned the house spotless, organized everything, volunteered, let all my neighbors and friends know that I wanted to go out and do ANYTHING, painted the house, exercised, joined a women's bible study, detailed the car, and took up SCUBA diving.

Um, wow! That is a whole lot of busy! But I truly trust people here and know that's what I am going to have to do to take care of me...
Maybe if I finally learn to knit, that woudl keep my head and hands busy!
Winter in the midwest is not the best time for Plan B, but I have already started decorating, so it will be a festive time!
BF439

Think of everything you always wanted to do, but didn't because hubby might not agree.

I was depressed and distraught and felt FORCED to do things, just to keep my mind off hubby.

But I did lean on friends and neighbors - let them know that I was ready to go out and do anything. And I went - to the ballet, the renaissnce fair, gold-panning, hiking, fishing, to plays, football games, you name it.

I volunteered with the casualties from Fallujah in Iraq. That was a life changing experinece, and if hubby had been home, I would never have done that.

I started a property management company, which I STILL have, and it is finally making money.

My life is much richer because I did all of these things which I really didn't want to do.

You will get there too. Think outside of the box.

"I anticipate lots of blowback for being "unreasonable,"

bf,

If you're doing Plan B right, you will never HEAR the "blowback," so don't worry about that.
Your IM must be clear that NO, ZERO, messages will get through, except should he wish to convey that the OW is completely out of his life and he is willing to work toward recovery (which, of course, you will validate before you take that chance).

At this point, you can't worry about him thinking YOU are being "unreasonable!" We all know who feel off the reasonabililty wagon here.

Have you set a date to begin Plan B?

Right Here Waiting

I do, but I don't want to state it here or post my letter. Like I've said in other posts, I don't know how much WH is checking this out.
I need to reinforce to my IM that I am not to get any information (or her to give any) beyond what I have stated in letter:
an issue with the children
Finances
or if he ends the A and desires to work on M.
I would love to post it here, but I don't want him to see it ahead of time.
Any suggestions? I used Tully's and T2L, as well as the one in SAA for guides.
BF439

bf,

Understandable, and probably wise as well not to show your hand.

Tell you what. If you want to email me privately, my addy is

I will edit that out very shortly because I've had that address for more than 10 years and I don't want to be recognized, either. Any email you send will be caught in my spam filter, but I check it regularly.

Right Here Waiting

Got it! I'll send my letter along to you. Let me know what you think!
BF439

OK, bf. You're using good sources, so you've probably got a good letter. As an objective observer, I'll look for any LB's or self effacement.

Catch you later.

You've got mail.