Road,
Sorry IM was confusing, I meant intermediary.

Mel,
Point taken about lectures.
This Plan B is hard and a lonely place. Keeping busy at work, have some tentative plans for the weekend

Signs Plan B may be having an affect.

WW had spoken to the intermediary and asked her to tell me that she was not in a relationship with OM, they really were just friends and it was just a roof over her head and there was no reason we could not see each other and do things together. I told intermediary to tell WW she had my letter and nothing was going to change, the only way we will ever have any contact again is if she ends all contact with OM and works with me to recover our M.

Intermediary also mentioned that WW had said that it would be too hard for her to return home and she couldn't physically bring herself to do it

She is having an affair.

Braeworth, here is a job description of the IM that I made on another thread. Can you please ask your IM to only pass on absolutely essential information? This recent info fogbabble should have never reached your ears:

The role of the intermediary:

1. a SPAM filter who only passes on ESSENTIAL information in his/her own words, such as "WS will pick up DD at 2:00 on Saturday"

NOT

"please send Sally's pink tennis shoes"

OR

"you are real jerk for not co-parenting with me! how immature!!"

2. remains completely neutral

3. thanks the WS for his communication but tells him if it won't be passed on: "i am sorry but I can't pass this on because it is not in accordance to 2M2L's letter"

4. notifies the WS of any intercepted/erased messages that were sent directly to you:

"2M2L did not read your text message sent today at 2:00. Please send all messages through me as per her request. Any direct communication with 2M2L will not be read. Thank you"

5. the IM agrees beforehand to abide by your Plan B and does not try to persuade you to do anything which conflicts with that plan

6. the IM does not debate with the WS. She just says, thank you for your communication. I will pass on anything that is accoradance with 2M2L's letter

7. the IM DOES ALL NEGOTIATING FOR A RECONCILIATION TO TEST THE WS'S SINCERITY - THIS IS NOT DONE BY THE BS

Mel,
Thanks for that, I will pass it on

braeworth, what is the plan for Christmas and your DD? Did we discuss that? That will be a huge blow to the affair. How is your W visiting your DD? Where does she take her for visits?

Hi Mel,
At the moment WW is picking DD up from school and taking her to where she is living for tea or picking her up and taking DD to her friends house, whose mother is also a family friend.
I have made it clear and WW accepts that it is far too early for DD to have any contact with OM and if I find out that there has been any contact I will re-evaluate these visits. So far she has stuck to this.

As for Christmas, DD will be with me. My parents will come over for lunch and then my sister, BIL and kids will also come for tea. WW's Aunty, who has been very supportive said she will also call in.
As for WW and DD at Christmas, I am still thinking. Thought maybe WW could call in on Christmas morning for an hour and I would go out for a walk

WAIT A MINUTE!! What do you mean by "call in??" On the phone!???

How about letting her pick her up for a dinner on Christmas Eve? And then allow DD to call her, IF SHE WANTS, on Christmas Day? [hopefully later in the day!] Your wife will feel so guilty for not being there in the morning and I hope you don't interfere in that guilt by compensating with a long morning call! Guilt is good!

ok, I think you mean VISIT when you say "call." In the US "call" means call on the phone.

But it would be a mistake to allow her in your house on Christmas. It is in the best interest of everyone for your wife to know what it will be like without her family on Christmas. She has ABANDONED her family for an affair, so this is an IDEAL opportunity to treat her to that consequence.

My suggestion is first off to NEVER allow her in that house again until she is committed to recovery. Don't give her a fix, braeworth! Every fix you give her allows her to stay out and pursue her affair for another day.

For Christmas you want your DD to celebrate with her but in a way that does not protect your W from consequences. So, I would allow only a quick phone call - at your DD's discretion - on Christmas day and allow your wife to pick her up and take her to dinner on Christmas Eve.

Anything more than that is ENABLING, which is not in ANYBODY'S best interest.

brae, I would put a stop to this. She should not be taking your DD to her affair lair where she could be exposed to the OM. This is how little girls end up molested. Your W is probably bringing her there to get her slowly USED to the idea of her affair.

My suggestion would be to tell the IM to tell your WW that your DD is not be taken to her affair lair because it is not in her best interest.

This will protect your DD, send the strong message that her affair is not fit for exposure to children, and force her to get another place to live if she wants to see her DD. You don't even want to accommodate her in this way, especially when it is harmful to your DD.

She is teaching your DD that wrong is right and you are CONDONING that message by allowing your DD to go to her affair lair.

Anglo/American translation. WW's Aunty may visit us on Christmas day.

Thanks Mel, I will think about your suggestions, DD will want WW to see her presents and I am trying to prevent DD suffering as much as possible. I will have a think, yours is a good suggestion, I also thought that with dinner cooking and and WW having to leave and go back to her lonely place, don't know what OM is doing but he also has kids that do not live with him, she may have time to sit and reflect

Your DD is suffering from her mothers affair, brae, and everything you can do to ruin that affair is in your DD's best interest. It is not in your DD's best interest to PLAY PRETEND GAMES in order to protect her mother from the consequences of her affair.

You would be throwing away a PRIME OPPORTUNITY to wake your wife up if you allow her in your house on Christmas to pretend like she is a good mother.

YOUR WIFE HAS ABANDONED HER FAMILY, DON'T PROTECT HER FROM THAT CONSEQUENCE, BRAEWORTH!

You are NOT helping your DD by allowing her wayward mother in the house on Christmas. You are only HELPING THE AFFAIR BY EASING THE WW'S GUILT. YOU HELP THE AFFAIR AT YOUR DD'S EXPENSE.

Intermediary also mentioned that WW had said that it would be too hard for her to return home and she couldn't physically bring herself to do it


Mel is giving you excellent info

Her guilt is the only thing keeping her from returning home. She wants to cake eat. Good for you for not letting her.

Mel,
You are a tough lady. You have made some great points and given me a lot to think about.

I now know that the intermediary should never have let those messages through but like all BS early in to Plan B, it is nice to know that at least she is thinking about things and it is having an affect

Shaken,
You are right, one of the big things with her returning home would be facing my family and our mutual friends, she has pretty much gone to ground

braeworth, what I want for you is a restored marriage. That may not ever happen, but the things I am telling you are the MOST LIKELY to bring that result. That is in the best interest of your DD. Protecting your wife from the consequences of her actions is VERY UNLIKELY to bring that result, rather it will help her stay out longer to pursue her affair.

This Christmas should be HORRIBLE for your wife and you would be foolhardy to ease her pain in any way, when it is that very PAIN that is necessary to wake her up. It is that horrible pain that will create conflict in her affair. Being isolated and without her DD on Christmas day will make her have second thoughts about her affair. It will cause the affair to CRUMBLE when she sees how there is no future in it and how she is marginalized like a PARIAH. YOU CANNOT INTERFERE IN THIS, BRAEWORTH!!

It might be hard for your DD to be without her mother on C Day, but it will be harder in the long run to lose her mother to her adulterous affair. You have to look at the big picture, braeworth.

The best thing for your W would be to spend her Christmas day without her H and DD, all alone in the OM's lonely apartment, FEELING GUILTY, thinking about the huge sacrifices she made for her affair. This will also cause her EXPECTATIONS of the OM to go way up to compensate her for what she has sacrificed. THIS IS WHAT YOU WANT!! You do not want to interfere in that in any way because this is what will destroy her affair.

When the pain of her adultery is greater than coming home is when she will have second thoughts. Don't throw away this opportunity, b; look at the big picture and be STRATEGIC. You are looking at this from a SHORT TERM, EMOTIONAL viewpoint and missing a GREAT OPPORTUNITY.

Brae,

How about you suggest that your and DD will be attending Church services on Christmas morning, and you would love to have her attend these services on Christmas morning.

That should give you a pretty good barometer for how much guilt she is carrying. If she is very guilty, chances are she won't want to attend services.

Most WS's won't set foot in a church, for fear the roof will fall in on their head. (Yep, just a friend.)

JMHO,

All Blessings,
Jerry

Hey Jerry, I like your idea, but did you know he is in plan B? He is not supposed to see his wife.

Thanks again Mel, thanks for taking the time to help. As I said you have made some great points and given me a lot to think about. I have been fairly tough on WW but looks like I need to get tougher

oops,.

OK, but is there any exception on Christmas day, with kids involved, for a "truce" if you will??

Sorry if I'm wrong.

All Blessings,
Jerry

The only exception for holidays is that you would want to be DARKER, if that is possible, in order to give the WS the greatest EFFECT possible. Holidays are a GREAT OPPORTUNITY to ruin affairs because the WS will miss her family the most. Without a family "fix" the WS is left all alone with the consequences of her choices.

If you give her the family fix she will miss all that. He doesn't want to do anything to ease her pain, when it is that very pain that will wake her up and bring her home. Allowing a holiday exception is to enable the affair and ease her guilt, which is NOT in his DD's best interest or for the good of his marriage.