Well it's done. I talked to my H last night and told him that i think we should go our separate ways after our DS graduates and he just said okay.

OKAY? That's it?? Wow,, how are you doing??
When does your DS graduate?

I am a TOTAL mess (thanks for asking). Our DS graduates at the end of May 2009.

he says "okay," I am hoping that it means he thinks he has 6 or 7 months to prove himself to you.

I'm joining this thread late, but if you are the WS, then yes, you have given up your right to be friendly to the opposite sex if it bothers your spouse. It has been proven by the A that the line of friendliness gets blurred and crossed. Friendliness is no longer an option.

Please excuse me for my odd post. This is my first post and it's in response to the question posted earlier about drawing the line in the sand as to what is acceptable and what is not. The line actually becomes quite clear and firm.

Again, I apologize for my odd post. I see that this post has already stated exactly what I meant. I totally agree.

SC,

I have just finished reading ALL the post, and I am so sorry! You are a strong, beautiful woman. I wish you all the best.

My goodness i guess my H just thought i was upset or something because he just continues to talk like i did not tell him that we are going to go our separate ways.

I am not sure how to deal with it, i do not want to keep telling him everyday but maybe that is what i need to do to get through to him, i dunno

I have a suggestion.
"deal with it" legally
do not discuss - act
do not tell him the same thing over and over and over - that just makes you look silly

Go see an attorney.
Let your attorney "discuss" the separation via legal filings.

In the meantime, be pleasant. Why not? Being ugly just makes you feel bad.

When H brings up anything about the marriage - stop him by doing this:
hold your hand up in the air as if you were stopping traffic and say "STOP"
then say "That topic is being handled by my attorney... Now, would you like more coffee?" (nice as you please)

If your H says "I want to work on the marriage - give him the Harley phone number ... and don't do anything else.

If H is serious - he'll do the heavy lifting.

It seems you both are playing a game of "chicken" .... let H know you are serious by your actions - no more words - he clearly does not believe one thing you say - so don't waste your breath

Pep i know this is very good advice. I however do not plan on doing anything "legally" regarding the marriage. If he wants to once we have gone our separate ways then he can.

I just no longer want to be with him. I can not take his "ignoring" my feelings any more.

I can say that i have not mentioned it again, but i have hinted to the fact that i am serious. Like he has asked me if i would marry him again and i just did not respond even though he was looking right at me and i was looking right at him (so he knew i heard what he said), i basically just changed the subject and did not give him an answer.

I did the same thing with another question he asked which was "are we alright" (meaning the marriage). I just did not answer him.

I am still pleasant to him, we still are doing things together (including going on vacation next month). I just am so angry every day about things that he does that i feel are "ignoring" my feelings. So my plan has not changed except for the fact that i wish it were sooner because i am tired of being ANGRY all the time. That has never been my personality but it seems to be NOW and i do not like it one bit!!!!!

Still_Crazy - no one here can tell you what to do. You have ignored advice given to you to help you with your situation and your perceptions, and you have ignored them or refused to DO them.

This "latest" is just "more of the same" sort of NOT dealing with or confronting problems. You seem to think that it is "easier" to just do what you want to do and then shift the blame, or responsibility, for REAL action onto your husband.

Of course, you CAN do that, but the end result will always be the same, you will NOT recover your marriage and BUILD (means it takes work on the part of both of you to accomplish what you are trying to build) the sort of marriage that you both would like have.

You, on the other hand, continue to "wish" that your husband would simply "know" or "read your mind."

It doesn't work that way. Earlier in the thread, I think it was Pepperband who gave you some very good advice, you were advised to TALK specifically about this issue that you have a problem with, and you NEVER had that conversation. NOW you have spun this problem up to a point at which YOU think there is "no hope" and as a result YOU have chosen to leave, thinking along the same lines of "thought pattern" that most Wayward Spouses use to "justify" their decision to abandon the marriage and seek "happiness" elsewhere.



The BIG announcement. Now he has to read your mind again. You WANT him to simply "accept" whatever you want, and now that he has done just what you want him to do, "he just said okay," you are MAD that he simply DID accept what you said with no "further discussion".



Of course YOU don't plan on doing anything. You JUST TOLD HIM in the preceding quotation that the "marriage is over" and you want a DIVORCE. That IS what "go our separate ways" MEANS.

You are playing games and trolling for sympathy and support from the other members of MB, but you will not be getting such sympathy and support from me anyway.

You are using "brinksmanship" and "ultimatums" to "enable you to do whatever you want to do," which you CAN do, but that is NOT how someone works on recovering their marriage and WORKING towards rebuilding a "good marriage" that you BOTH want to have.




IF this is true, then stop playing games with him and with us. FILE for divorce.

He is NOT "ignoring" your feelings, he is "being his normal self that he has always been" and you KNOW it because you have admitted it previously.

"I cannot take his "ignoring" my feelings any more." Oh give me a break! That IS the very reasoning that MANY Wayward Spouses use to "justify" their doing something that is very destructive to the marriage.

So don't "blame him" for the divorce, it is what YOU want ("I just no longer want to be with him").




Oh ya, keep HINTING. DON'T say it and don't discuss it. Too uncomfortable for you. Just REQUIRE him to be a "mind reader."




He asks you an "open ended" question to try to engage you in discussion and you "ignore him." Rather than engage in disscusssion, you revert to the "silent treatment" and expect him to KNOW what is really in your mind and/or bothering you.




Whoopee do! You are "still pleasant to him," all the time keeping to yourself what you are planning on doing and still refusing to actually DO the hard work of discussion and working through perceived and/or real problems.

No wonder you are "ANGRY all the time."

People who can't read minds DO make us angry because they simply "should know."


Enjoy the divorced life and all that it brings with it. It should be interesting in the future to see how "family" gatherings go and who gets the "visits" from the kids and grandkids, all because you WON'T do the "unpleasant thing" of actually working through issues because you are "just too tired" of "trying" anymore. Seems to me that you have been "barely trying" and just "wishing" it were different.

Like most "wishes," they seldom are achieved without effort.

Good luck in the future!

You know what FH, pretty much not one word in your post is correct. I have told my H EVERYTHING that bothers me, he KNOWS my feelings on all the matters that i have posted about.

What good is just saying them over and over going to do. His "feelings" are different than mine how is just talking about my feeling supposed to change his. He does not beleive ANY of the things he does is WRONG, he ALWAYS tells me that it is MY PERCEPTION and that "I NEED TO CHANGE MY PERCEPTION HE DOES NOT NEED TO CHANGE HIS ACTIONS.

Also if you were to ask my H who is taking "blame" for the divorce he would tell you that "I AM" which i have also told my kids that it is MY FAULT.

And quite frankly i do not WANT simpathy from ANYONE and expecially not you. I have never found any of your posts to be helpful to me, you just claim to be this righeous person, yet if anyone does not agree with you then they are "unchristian like". So as far as i am concerned you need not bother to post to me EVER again.

And i really do not care what you think as the only feelings i care about our my childrens.

And just because i do not choose to do anything "legally" does not mean anything. It means just that. I am choosing not to file for divorce or legal separation.

Oh my goodness you just do not know how upset this post makes me. This is such a huge DJ. How do you know ANYTHING about my life other than the few typed words i put out here.

And i did not even ask for yours or anyone else's help for that matter help. Although i like hearing what others have tried that has worked to see if it would work for me.

You still have ABSOLOUTELY no idea what i have said to my H and what i have not. Please do not EVER post to me again.

SC

"marry him again and i just did not respond even though he was looking right at me and i was looking right at him (so he knew i heard what he said), i basically just changed the subject and did not give him an answer.
I did the same thing with another question he asked which was "are we alright" (meaning the marriage). I just did not answer him."

Yes you are still crazy. Still playing your crazy games.

Just as foggy as any WS. Justifying why you do not have to answer him.

A direct question deserves an answer. What is the point of being polite. Being passive agressive.

Ok Road, then you tell me what you would have done.

As Pep stated earlier what is the point in saying it over and over. He KNOWS my feelings, nothing has changed since the last time i TOLD him my feelings. He still believes it is my PERCEPTION and that he should not HAVE TO CHANGE.

We actually discussed things again this weekend and i appologized to him for having those "perceptions" but i told him they were there and i did not know how to change them. His response was to "just let them go", not "what can i do to help change those perceptions", just "let them go".

To me that is saying ONCE AGAIN that he does not care about my feelings. As long as he is happy everyone should be happy.

Whether any of you think it or not i have tried to change these perceptions for 25 years, they just got worse instead of better because my H does not see any thing WRONG with his actions.

So i feel we are at an empass.

I don't. All I, or any of us on MB, have to "go on" IS what you decide to post and/or "dole out" to us. IF you are truly "upset" over what you perceive as some misunderstanding, then why don't you POST what is "really going on in your life" that you are basing your ultimatums upon?



THAT is very clear. You are going to do whatever you want to do regardless of what anyone says, and you are simply wasting the time of folks who would TRY to help you save your marriage and "fix" the problems that you perceive in your marriage.

People HAVE told you what "worked" in their marriages, but you HAVE NOT applied any of those things TO your marriage. You just "like the sound of words" and DON'T like actually taking ACTION that might make you feel "uncomfortable." You prefer complaining about the "problems" and running away from the problems rather than taking the "hard and risky" approach of actually confronting the issues and attempting to work through by applying SOLUTIONS.

People, like me, have been the "Betrayed Spouse" and HAVE worked through recovery, even through the times when they, AND ME, have "felt like throwing in the towel."

But YOU don't want the "voices of experience," you just want sympathy. Fine, we DO sympathize with you, because we have "been there." But we also don't "buy into" enabling you use excuses for cratering your marriage because you haven't found your husband to "be all that you want him to be" without actually WORKING to achieve that goal.



You are correct, NONE of us has any idea of what you may have said to your husband. All we have is what you decide to share by way of posting.

As for posting to you in the future, why should I waste my time on someone who obviously DOES NOT want any help?

MEDC had it right a long time ago in your thread...you make mountains out of molehills and don't address the problems. You make, at best, simple little statements to your husband, but you DON'T take the time and effort to actually work through your perceived problems.

And you telling me to "not post to you" is just the latest example of how you react to things "you perceive that you don't like."

But to your original question, "What if the BS can never "get over it", in your case the answer is for you "to go get a Divorce." It's YOUR choice even though your husband ended his affair almost 2 years ago and has been "Trying" but not to your "satisfaction." So leave rather than work through the recovery process and its "ups and downs."

SC, have you ever heard the phrase; "If at first you don't succeed, try, try, again?"

NO ONE works through recovery to achieve a recovered marriage without trying again and again. The TWO of you are on "different wavelengths" and until the differences are understood, you will always be that way.

It is NOT that your husband "does not care about your feelings."

It is that he does not understand them.

That is TYPICAL of former Wayward Spouses and most often comes out in the form of "Why don't you just get over it?"

It takes a lot of work to get to the "lightbulb moment" when they finally DO "get it" themselves and what the depth of harm is that they have done to their Betrayed Spouse.

And it is NOT always easy emotionally TO have those discussions, especially over and over again UNTIL it finally DOES "sink in" and they begin to "see" their actions through YOUR eyes.


You said: We actually discussed things again this weekend and i appologized to him for having those "perceptions" but i told him they were there and i did not know how to change them.

If YOU don't know the "how to," HOW do you expect him to know it?

THAT "how to" is precisely what folks have been trying to get across to you so that you CAN KNOW what needs to be done to achieve the goal you desire.

But, of course, we can't possibly know what we are talking about.

We have NOT learned those "lessons" through experience and the "school" of having "been there, done that."

People WILL continue to try to help you, but only if you actually want HELP and not just sympathy.

So tell me FH what you would do if your WS has told you over and over again that they do not think they are doing anything wrong and that YOU just need to deal with it.

There is NO CHANGING my H's mind on these issues. He feels he does nothing WRONG and i feel that his friendliness and his IB are WRONG for our M. How do you discuss that? How do you enthusiastically agree on something that you both see SO DIFFERENTLY? (These issues have been 25 years long and still he does not agree that he should not be talking to other women the way he does or hanging out with people who have had affairs on their wives)

And this is something (friendliness and his IB) that i will not put up with anymore. I have told him and told him and told him more different ways than i can count. It always get the same response (as it has been for 25 years), you are crazy, i am just a friendly person. Or we do not know that he is having an affair.

I can tell you that i have been through a lot in the last two years and none of has been good.

1. My dpeartment was done away with (i was the only person who got to keep my job out of 25 positions talk about feeling guilty) (Dec 2006)

2. D-Day and all that follows (Jan 2007)

3. My H having to have part of his lung removed (Feb 2007)

4. Filed bankruptcy because of my H being out of work so long after his surgery. (Aug 2007)

5 My H's company was bought out and we did not know if he was keeping his job (Jan 2008)

6. H kept his job but did not want to stay at his company because so many people knew about the (because he allowed OW to annouce that they were "an item") so he took a job making $3 per hour less than he was making (May 2008)

7. H got hit in the face with a foul ball at our DSs baseball game and crushed his cheekbone (surgery with 3 plates in his cheek to correct fractures) (June 2008)

8. Had reorged in our bankruptcy to keep our house but because of H taking the pay cut could not afford the reorg payment so we changed the reorg to surrender our home (July 2008)

9. H HATES new job and wishes he would have stayed at other company and is looking for other employment daily (May 2008-present)

In case I forget and post to you in the future - please remind me of this.
I realize you were writing "to" FH, but this is clearly your position here on MB, and I intend to respect your position and never post any advice to you ever again.

I bid you adieu and wish you the very best.

Pep