bf,

Just checking up on you. Things seem quiet, and that is GOOD.

I've been following Tully's story too. I think you're misinterpreting her WH's attempts to contact her, though. She has taken control of herself (and therefore, to an extent, the relationship) and her WH does NOT like it. So he is trying to CONTROL things himself by intruding, enrolling mutual friends and family in his manipulations. It is NOT that he is any closer to coming out of the fog than your WH. He's just using avenues that he thinks are open to him to manipulate her into going back to him while he keeps his OW.

I don't think you'd want that kind of pressure. Try to enjoy the relative lack of drama. I do feel for Tully...nobody is LETTING her have a dark, quiet Plan B.

Things are just simmering differently for your WH, and it isn't better or worse.

Just keep on keeping on.

Right Here Waiting

Thanks, RTW, I need to hear that -- thats why I post here! I want to say I know this or that, but I still feel like I know nothing and I used to be so smart (could that be one of my lessons? A little humility, please??)
Anyway, it is easier without the drama, but I'm not so patient, either.
I am trying to focus on the holidays and the kids -- any ideas out there on how to really make this year special (without spending tons of cash -- since I may be a single mom at some point)? I've already decided to put up lots of holiday lights and decor early, get an extra tree for outside (for the birds), really celebrate Advent, make oodles of cookies and volunteer a few places with the kids. Taking any and all suggestions -- I may even start a new thread!
Taking all support, hugs and suggestions!
BF439

I have one!!

There is a really easy clay you can make with cornstarch. I have the recipe around here somewhere. Then you cut out shapes with your Christmas cookie cutters, make a little hole at the top for an ornament hanger and air dry or bake them dry. Then paint them using poster paints or acrylic paints.

It's really fun! We used to do this with my Mom when we were younger nearly every year!

You can seal the ornaments with an acrylic sealer, too, so they'll keep for a really long time!

Charlotte

Thats a great one! Post the recipe when you find it! I thought I'd have them do paper chains, a la Elf (the movie) all over one room -- they would love that and the little one can make them, too!
Also, the tree outside for the birds I thought I'd do peanut butter and bird seed pinecone ornaments.
Keep sending ideas -- I think we could all use them this year!
BF439

Okay, I will!!

Elf...

I'm not a big Will Farrell (sp?) fan but I did like that movie. I think the scene in the mail room is SO HILARIOUS!! My Mom is a mail carrier for the USPS, though, so that might contribute to my LMAO over that!!

Yeah, that's a great idea!! And the bird one, too! I think I'll do that one as well.

Charlotte

Yeah, and Bob Newhart with his deadpan expression:

And Will Farrell's tights:

He sure has done a lot of movies where he wears tights or really tight pants. Is there something insidious behind that?

WH just dropped off the youngest two kids and all it took was me to overhear one comment from my son about all the things WH got at MIL's for his new apartment. Why do I even bother with anything??!!!
It seems like everyone is totally ok with everything he's doing! Oh, you are cheating on your wife and don't think you love her? How about a microwave for your new bachelor pad??
And then he sends DS11 into the house for the old vacuum...
Every step toward his new apartment just seals that we will never reconcile and I feel like I never got a chance to save my marriage and family..
Just so sad right now...
BF439

No time to be sad. You need to start planning a wonderful Christmas.

One of our best was when my sons' dad was out of work and had a heart attack. We had NO money. I volunteered wrapping and delivering presents to needy kids and took my sons along. It made for a memorable Christmas.

We did cookies and candy, cheap decorating, and enlisted all of our friends to put together a bag for a homeless person. All the neighborhood donated things - flashlights, blankets, radios, canned ham, snacks, etc. On Christmas day we drove around town, found a homeless guy, and gave it to him. It really brought home the meaning of the season. And by the way, we continue this tradition to this day.

Also there are usually Christmas pagents at churches that are free, music at shopping centers, volunteering at homeless shelters, taking a plate to a homebound neighbor, visiting nursing homes, caroling at hospitals, billions of things.

I'm doing better than I was earlier, but having some trouble with WH communicating through kids.
DD12 wanted to go to a movie with me and WH, through her, offered to watch the two younger kids. I felt completely torn. The kids are welcome to talk to him as much as they want (or as much as he calls them, which is very little), but I hate having them ask me questions while he's on the phone to them. Maybe today was just a wrinkle, because otherwise we haven't had reason (kids or finances) to talk. Like I said earlier, just feeling a little sad, so seeing everything through poo-glasses. I think I'll send the link to the thread about the intermediary role to my intermediary, just to ensure she's got the info.
Blah!!! I hate what my life is and I hate that WH has put us all here so he can have sex!
BTW -- remember he hit on a friend two weeks after full disclosure and responded (and posted on) Craigslist personals, too in the past few months. this does not seem like most WH in the postings here or is it just because I was able to get into email and have more details than most? Gawd, he really sounds like a winner! Really, he was considered quite a catch at one point! Honest!
Let me know your thoughts!
BF439

Me: 38 BS
WH: 40
together 15; married 13
Kids: 12,11 and 4
D-day: 6/30/08 and again 10/25/08
In plan B and its not fun....

WH says that affair is not reason for him leaving and he has also seemed to be interested in other "experiences." Also, he has not seen OW for a month, but has had electronic contact (and phone maybe). Is he still fogged-up or could he really not love me and the affair have nothing to do with it?
Thoughts? Blustery opinions? All considered!
BF439

Me: 38 BS
WH: 40
together 15; married 13
Kids: 12,11 and 4
D-day: 6/30/08 and again 10/25/08
In plan B and its not fun....

Rule #1 for BS to remember:

Until extraordinary precautions are taken on the part of a WS to restore their marriage, if their lips are moving or their fingers moving on a keyboard, any and all forms of communication must be considered LIES.

Their deception is so thick that they even believe their own lies, their re-write of history, and so forth.

He's lying, lying lying!

You're in Plan B so you need to find better filters. Instruct your children that they are not the intermediary, and take that burden off their shoulders pronto - and have your intermediary instruct him as to future message conveyance.

Thanks KaylaAndy,
I think I know in my heart that the affair has impacted everything and nothing will change until he commits to ending it and fully owning his transgression. He still justifies it in some way by saying that he wasn't in love with me and I feel like he believes that as long as he ends the marriage it adds "weight" to his argument.
Its that circular argument from WH -- the affair has nothing to do with it; but now that we are separated, why not be with her? And what I desire is for him to end his contact with her and then see how he feels about the marriage. I think this whole time he has only counted it as an affair when they were sleeping together, so the time "off" this summer when we were working on our marriage did not count.
I think the above is my biggest task -- to stop worrying and thinking about what he thinks and does! ARRGGHHH!! I have given him the letter and I need to work on me!!!! We need an emoticon for pulling our hair out!


I sent a copy of the letter to my intermdiary and a link to MelodyLane's post about the intermediary. I need to work on how to keep the kids out of the middle since they'll talk to him on the phone and then ask me questions. They feel put in the middle and I'm trying to figure out how to get them out of it.
BF439

Be out of the room while your children are on the phone. Shampooing your hair works really well- "can't answer right now son, sorry!"

If he passes a message through your children during visitation, "son - don't want to talk about that right now - can you help me put these decorations on the tree?

Then later, set them down and chat about how things are changing and you don't want them in the middle. You've given their father complete instructions so that they don't have to feel like they are conveying dad's anger and frustration through them, and you're not going to do that to them. You are a safe place for them to talk and deal with their frustrations, but they don't have to tell their father anything about how you are feeling, just how they are feeling if they want to.

Clear lines of communication. Clear boundaries for your children to follow.

Ok, shampoo hair. Got it! I think I can do that!
Honestly, I just need to get the hang of not having him in my life, but there is a part of me that doesn't want to let go because I'm afraid I'll never have him back or that I'll stop wanting him.
This morning, though, I had a nice solid flash of, "no matter what he was, what he is is not what I want." I need to just hang on to that and then think about the me I want to be...
BF439

WH used the intermediary for the first time today and she did good -- she only passed on the information. It was a request to pick up a couple of things.
On another note, WH's father, who has never had much to do with me, sent his Christmas letter with the yearly check for us and he wrote it to me?!! I did not expect that and it will really be helpful to give the kids a nice Christmas! I wonder why he did not send it to WH (WH borrowed money from his dad to be able to afford apartment).
Oh, well, it was a nice suprise...
Just a few flashes of anger throughout the day as I thought about how much WH has lied and hurt everyone and how selfish his actions have been. Nothing new with that, but sometimes it hits me like a train and I am just knocked over flat all over again! I guess my mindset is that if my actions hurt everyone important in my life, I'd stop doing it, but, hey, that's just me...
BF439

[quote=bestfriend439]WH says that affair is not reason for him leaving and he has also seemed to be interested in other "experiences." Also, he has not seen OW for a month, but has had electronic contact (and phone maybe). Is he still fogged-up or could he really not love me and the affair have nothing to do with it?
Thoughts? Blustery opinions? All considered!
BF439

I'd call it fog, but it's really horse manure.

My FWH wanted other "experiences" too. Felt "stifled" in the M and finally "got up the nerve" to put his own "needs" first. Translate: Leave me (with the sorry excuse that he'd gotten a job offer out of town) and go act like a bachelor.

He's buried the love, and it's all your fault, his reasoning goes. He actually thinks the love is gone and there's no getting it back. You showed him a darned good Plan A, and in Plan B he'll eventually have to deal with that. Also, as long as OW is so much as a blip on the radar screen, she will look better. No baggage there, you see. Just give it time.

And, hey, if you're IN Plan B, you shouldn't even know any of this stuff! You need to go darker, girl.

Right Here Waiting

I know -- this is not new information, just a constant rehashing of what he's said. The worst being, "I no longer love you as a wife or lover." That's the one that pops into my head in the middle of the night...Pretty harsh from the guy everyone thought was "such a great guy!"

On the phone to WH family members -- not hearing any new information just a complete indulgence into WH-world and lots of crying and WTF happened -- kind of questions. Apparently family consensus is that WH is ill, but there is nothing I can do about it... I know that part, but still so much grief about what I've lost...

Need to just collect myself...Not feeling powerful or dark, just pitiful...
I'll post more later...
BF439

I'm feeling better today, but still struggling with focusing on WH. Here's one of my struggles: what was the underlying issue that caused the affair? Not the marital, but, the issues that WH is dealing with. The reason I even focus on that is if his choices are about a mental health issue do I have more empathy? Would having empathy help me with my anger so I can move forward on my healing? I guess part of what I'm looking for is some answer for how my wonderful partner and best friend has become the person who has hurt me the most...
Maybe I'm overthinking-- I tend to do that. I also know I can't talk with WH's family about him. That's not dark and it's too much info on both sides.
BF439

I was always teased in high school. Had to wear hand me downs, never had a haircut, looked like a bag lady, and you know how cruel teenagers can be. After a couple years of that, I just noticed somehow that, when they did something mean to me or someone else, they had this little look of desperation on their faces. As in 'Look, guys, aren't I cool to have made her look like a chump? Aren't I cool? Aren't I?'

I realized then that we all need something, and it's a matter of upbringing and personality on how we go about achieving it. Some of us take the high ground; some take the low. But the former can look themselves in the mirror.

So, yes, I learned to have empathy for the people who hurt me. Then it didn't hurt nearly as much; in fact, I was able to pity them. Who had the better life? Sure wasn't them, in their misery.

Its a lot easier to think about empathy when I don't feel like my heart is being ripped open every day by WH. Since initial exposure was in June 08 and I guess I tried a Plan A at that time (not perfectly, but pretty good for not knowing much about affairs then) so it makes sense how ready I felt for Plan B. Especially after learning full disclosure in October and realizing how much I had been lied to all summer.
Annyywayyyy, the space is good and I have been looking forward to the little things I enjoy about the holidays (Christmas cards, the kids holiday picture (got the Christmas sweaters today :)), planning cookies to bake).
So, if being empathetic without showing that to him, I guess that's good for me. I think were I was before, I was trying to heal myself, my marriage and be empathetic to WH. Now I know I can't take care of him. That's hard after looking after someone for 13 years out of nowhere. And its not been so bad taking care of me and the kids and just being...
I've also foung idey58's thread helpful -- especially about her WS wishiing her peace and cr@p! It reminds me of my previously evolved WH and his "feminist" lover who like to couch all their actions in their liberal bullsh!t and are in complete fog. It just reminds me that everyone or every persuasion is capable of an affair and they simply twist their ideology to make it all ok.
Ok, off my soapbox for now! Hope everyone is having a great night -- I'm going to go shave my legs!
BF439