JL,

I know it is a long way between now and the birth, the GF may decide to tell her parents. She would have to admit that she and Sam are more than just friends who study together. She is the youngest child and her siblings have all done very well, I think she is just so ashamed of herself.

You are right that I want to take this challenge off of Sam if I can, and if it is the right thing to do. He went through alot during the A and years after and he never complained or acted out. I need to do this for him if it will help. I must admit that the years of parenting are scary, but I know myself. Once, I settle in with the baby it will just become part of me like the rest of the children. For a big tough guy, I really love babies.

I would never let the girls stay for me or to help with the baby. They know how I feel about parents putting obligations on their children, so even if they want to help they will never offer.

Why? WHY??

You raced to take challenges away from your wife, and the end result was NOT a grateful, appreciative, secure wife, was it? You can attribute that to your wife's character issues if you like, but not until you've asked yourself some deep questions about the effect it has on a person to have all their challenges solved for them by somebody else.

Your son is an adult, who made the adult decision to engage in sexual relations with his girlfriend, and now faces the adult consequence of doing that. Taking away the adult responsibility from him does him no favours. It's for HIM and his girlfriend to work out how to deal with the crisis they've got themselves into. Having you race in to remove the difficulties from them is not good for either of them in the long run.

Supporting someone while they struggled through painful things is healthy. Taking the painful thing away so they don't have to deal with it is not healthy. Which course do you think you're taking?

But now that you've suggested that you adopt the child, it would be very difficult to change your mind and disappoint your son. It seem to me a great shame that you didn't give it more thought, and perhaps come here to get soundings before you made the offer to your son.

The girlfriend's fear of telling her parents is understandable. But it's not honest, and it's not wise, and you as the elder statesman in all this should not be supporting her in a soap-opera attempt at concealment. She's a scared adolescent; you're not. Supporting her while she summons up the courage to tell her parents is healthy; helping her to make a panicked attempt to cover it up is not.

6, step back and let these young people sort themselves out. If they come up with a plan that requires assistance from you, let them approach you with their plan. DON'T TAKE OVER.

WE all know how shiny your superhero cape is, but sometimes people need to break their leg just to learn to ride the bike, yes?

TA

Honesty has to be number one here.

You already know how dishonesty feels.

Do you really want to be part of keeping those other grandparents from their grandchild?

Based on how you've handled yourself here and having read your posts I'm pretty sure you already know the answers.

TA,

I would like the GF to talk to her parents and I will try to accomplish that over the next few months. If not then we still have time for her to do it as more time passes.

I am wracked with guilt over the stuff Sam had to endure during the A. I know it was not all my fault but I feel it none the less. Here are my concerns.

1) I don't want to take his child from him, but I want him to still get to be a doctor.

2) I don't want him to marry because they got pregnant. That did not work out that well for me, or my now motherless children.

I'm going to try to encourage Sam to take on as much of this as he can, but let him know that I am there if it all really hits the fan. Just from our discussion this afternoon I think he is not looking for me to raise the child, as much as help for the next 5 - 7 years. He keeps calling the baby his son, but we don't know the gender. He is going to switch his med school choice away from Harvard to JH because it is much closer to home. If JH doesn't take him he can go locally, the school is not a big name but his scores and GPA will get him in for sure. He may pick local anyway, since he could live at home and actually raise his child day to day.

I want him to be responsible and to grow up, honestly he is usually very mature. This is going to be so difficult, but he is really actually happy for the first time in a long time. He is going to tell his grandparents tomorrow, himself without me.

I am trying to hang up the cape, but you are right that racing to the rescue is always my first reaction.

6,

Some excellent points have been made. I think your son and the mother of his child need to do some real thinking about all of this. You know I am a good bit older than you, and as I think back on it, I know as many women who have abandoned their families to chase: med school, other men, life, fantasy, etc. as I know men that have. IN fact, I actually can think of more women that have done this.

I realize this doesn't fit the stereotype, but it is true, and many of these women are physcians. Sam is making a good choice to NOT marry this girl. But, they both need to really address all of this as the child is born.

Your offer is generous, but it may be harmful. From what you have said of Sam, he sounds a great deal like you, a man that helps people and loves family, hence his reaction to his mother and her behaviors. I know you realize that he would probably give up his dream of med school for this child hence your offer.

Yet he has to make these decisions as has been pointed out to you. My feeling go slow, let them talk. You have offered some other options, and I suspect Sam will come up with other options as well. You/he mentioned choices of schools for one.

I personally think that both of these kids will come to regret putting this child up for adoption for the simple reason that they COULD have reared this child, as they will both have college degrees. That is a far cry from someone who feels they could not offer a child a decent life. They would regret it becaue they put themselves before their child, that is my bet.

You are offering an option, actually many options. Let them think about it.

God Bless,

JL

PS: Of course I would love to see your ex's face when she comes back, if ever or her mother tells her YOU are going to raise her grandchild. I guess maybe it won't make much difference, she appears to have been an indiffernt mother anyway.

One thing you need to be clear on: you did nothing to hurt your son. That was his mom's doing. Your wife was , most likely, disordred and you did the best you could. The disordred spin your reality. They are masters of manipulation,deflection and they wear you down insidiously. You should have no guilt over this.
Your kids were fortunate to have had you as a dad, shielding them from your wife.
I am in no position to advise you on this adoption thing. Regardless of whether you adopt or assist, this baby will be lucky to have you around.

6, will having a child outside of marriage keep him out of medical school?

As a grandparent to TWO children born to my daughter who is not married, I can relate. I jumped right in and "helped" and my daughter who is just now getting her life together is very grateful that I have stuck with her and supported her.

If you do this, you WILL get weary. As your own children get older, you'll start thinking about the things YOU want to do. Being a co-parent to a grandchild (for lack of a better word) may cause you to put many things on hold.

I personally don't believe you should adopt your grandchild. If your son is man enough to want this child, then he should be man enough to learn how to raise this child, and to make personal sacrifices for him/her-- like you have for him. If it means working 10X harder for his dream, then so be it.

What has gone on in his childhood happened. Things could have been different but they weren't. They are what they are. Holding on to any guilt serves NO purpose and only delays the maturing that your children need to experience.

Grandchildren are to ENJOY and to SPOIL. Being a co-parent colors that relationship. I promise you it does.

Oh, and the GFs parents, definitely need to be told. This is their grandchild too. I would be LIVID and HURT if my child kept something this big from me. They can get past HOW she got pregnant and WHEN she got pregnant, but they shouldn't have to miss the joy of their grandchild if that's what they choose. It's their decision, no one elses and it's wrong for their daughter OR you to make it for them.

Congratulations on your grandchild! They ARE a joy and continual blessing and soooo much different from raising your own children.

P.S. I also have 2 1/2 other grandchildren (will be 5 in all) and I love them all more than anything in the world!

6, What are you thinking here?

This is your son's resposibility here NOT YOURS.

You are advocating a falsehood here until the child " is able to handle the truth."

In your time on this forum have you learned nothing about how honesty is always the solution to the problem?

I don't get your position at all?

All blessings,
Jerry

My best friend from childhood got married too early, had a baby and ended up divorced from her husband. Her (divorced-single) mom took custody of her son so she could go back to school.

They all lived in the same town for a while and then my friend joined the army. She moved to Germany, met a German soldier and they got married. Moved back to America, had two kids.

They moved back to town with her mom and son for a while and then moved to Colorado. About a year later, her mom moved there also, with her first born son.

Her son always understood the circumstances of her letting her mom have custody. When they were in Colorado, he moved in with my friend and his brother and sister. When he turned 18 he went to find his father in Louisiana--his father never paid much attention to him.

He is a well-adjusted young man now. My friend's mom relished the joy of being able to raise him since she didn't have any more children after she had my friend.

My friend is forever thankful to her mom for making the sacrifice for her so she could make a decent living and take care of her family.

I don't think it's always a bad situation for a grandparent to raise their grandkids. Sometimes it might be, but not always.

Good luck to you and your family and if you do decide to raise your grandchild...good for you!! That will be one lucky kid!! Especially since you are someone who loves children so much. Not all dads do. Sometimes children are just accessories or forgotten tokens sitting in a corner. That won't happen to this child.

Charlotte

Thanks for the support,

Sam did a good job talking to his grandparents, they are supportive. He has called his GF several times, she is adamant about just giving up the baby and never looking back. Right now Sam is thinking he would like to go to med school locally, live at home and do as much as he can to raise his baby. Still processing on that, he would have alot of help, it would be cheaper for me, and I would get to make sure the baby was doing ok.

6YL,

IMHO, it is his GFs call, it is she who will gain the baby weight, it is she who is risking her health having the baby, it is she who feeds the baby in her womb and finally goes through the pain of labor.

On top of that her dreams of a white wedding are vanished and she knows that having another mans child in her life reduces her value in the competition for mates. By saying that I assume your son and this girl are becoming distant and will not likely marry and raise a family together.

I know it may seem sexist, but even today the cost of bearing a child fall unequally on the woman.

Your son is giving up HARVARD medical school too!

To sum it up adoption is a great option, as otherwise the child will have at best a reluctant Mother, or no Mother at all.

God Bless
NJ

If I understand correctly:

Sam's girlfriend is pregnant and Sam and his girlfriend both recognize Sam as the father of the baby.

Sam's GF wants to carry the baby to term, but does not want to raise the baby, or have any contact with the baby after the birth.

Sam and the GF are not remaining in a relationship with each other. They intend to go their separate ways.

Sam wants to keep the baby, but does not feel able to fully provide care for the baby for the next several years.

You are willing to step in and help out over the next few years.

Sam wants to go to medical school locally so he can keep custody of the baby.

This seems all reasonable to me and has probably happened a few times. But what state do you live in? Can you make this happen? In NYS, I don't think the GF could simply have her own parental rights terminated. In NYS, the GF might be looking for both her and Sam's parental rights to be terminated so the baby could be adopted. States probably vary widely on the procedures related to custody, termination of parental rights, child support, etc.

Lake,

We live in VA, so both parents have individual rights. GF and Sam will not stay together and Sam wants to keep the baby. So I think we are in the clear in that she can just terminate her rights. Since Sam is the Bio dad he has many more rights than a simple adoptive parent, including child support which he will waive.

I know it will be tough to give up Harvard but he has not been accepted yet, and he is cut from the same cloth as me so I doubt he could just go on there and leave his baby to someone else.

6YL,

As an OC this is/was an important issue in my life, who is going to be the Mother figure to this child? Aren't you putting this child in the same Motherless situation your kids were in?

Are you planning to tell the child who her/his mother is?

Thoughtfully
NJ

What would you suggest? I'm curious. (Since the mother doesn't want anything to do with the child, let's assume that continues and she gives up her parental rights.)

A lot of people don't have both parents and I didn't have my real father in my life for most of it-and when he WAS there it was a situation similar to 6's wife. Thanks to the love and support of my Mom, (who reminds me of 6 a lot regarding children), my siblings and I have turned out pretty darn good.

Just sayin'.

Charlotte

Added: I'm sure that 6 and his son will be able to handle the question when it comes up. But someday 6's son might decide to get married so the child may end up having a mother someday after all.

6, have you really thought through the dynamics of this? The possibilities?

1. I'm assuming that daytime care of the baby will not be yours, as you'll be at work? What happens if the baby is born with a disability or illness that requires round-the-clock care? It's one thing to leave your children in the care of a third party when they're normal and healthy, quite another if they need constant specialist attention. What are your contingency plans for that situation?

2. Are you planning to formally adopt the baby? If so, what happens to Sam's rights? Most parents who have their babies adopted, do so in the knowledge that they will have no further say in that child's future, and quite probably little or no contact. If the baby is adopted by you, Sam's position becomes difficult, both practically and emotionally. How will you deal with that?

3. If you don't adopt, but stand in as parent until Sam is able to care for the baby himself, how will you prepare for and manage the handover? Remember, the child will have known one family, one father figure and one environment for, what...five, six years by the time Sam is through college and the necessary steps to becoming a fully fledged doctor. Sam's likely to be living in a different town from you, unless he can find a job nearby, I would think. The child will be moved away from his/her 'siblings', his 'daddy', his little friends and his school. He'll be moving in with a young father whose working hours are unlikely to be care-friendly. How will that work?

4. Sam has, by all accounts, grown up in a rather abnormal environment with an oddly disassociated mother, a variety of third-party carers, and a huge level of over-functioning by his father. He may feel that's the norm, and see nothing odd about inserting his child into a replicated environment, with a disassociated (or totally absent) mother, a variety of third-party carers, and an even more over-functioning 'father' figure. Do you think this is a cycle that should be perpetrated?

5. Sam has already repeated, almost to the letter, your own life events. That's what tends to happen in families where the cycle isn't recognised and interrupted. I know you see this, and feel that by taking on the baby, you will be sparing Sam from making the same mistake in marrying the wrong woman and treading the same path as you. But are you really breaking the pattern? Sam is still eagerly taking the responsibility away from his girlfriend, and will still be left with an uncomfortable and life-constricting problem that's likely to affect his future relationships and children.

6yearsleft (and you may want to reconsider that name, as it proved a little inaccurate, by about 5.8 years - sorry to be pointed, but it DOES highlight your impetuosity), your intentions are clearly excellent; you have a big heart...but I question your judgement. Which wouldn't matter a jot, except for the fact that this whole situation involves an innocent, vulnerable child whose future ought to be paramount. Have you considered whether having the child adopted by others might be in his/her best interests?


I know you want what's best for Sam, but don't forget that it's actually much more important to do what's best FOR THE BABY.

TA

Hey,

A very dear friend of mine was in Sam's position. He himself was adopted, and so he felt very strongly about having someone who was actually related to him finally. His GF did not want the baby but she was willing to carry it to term and relinquish her parental rights to my friend the father. He raised the baby together with his parents (his adoptive parents). So at the beginning I believe he moved back in with his parents. They shared parenting responsibilities, like his parents would do the after-school stuff (for instance) until my friend got off work; or if my friend had to be out of town or his work wasn't conducive to having a child alone, his parents would be the primary caregivers for awhile. The boy grew up at all times knowing the truth, who was what; and since it was how he grew up, it seemed natural to him.

Last year my friend died suddenly. The grandparents (my friend's parents) are now the primary caregivers. They had to go back to the birth mother to again get her to sign over parental rights to them. (The child at all times was aware that he had a birth mother who lived elsewhere.)

I would strongly urge you to be honest at all times about who is mommy, daddy, papa, etc. (IMHO "Papa" is a great name for a grandfather who may have for of a parenting role.) If the baby is exposed to the truth from before s/he can talk, it will never seem odd, it will never be a shock. It will just be all the more people around who love him/her.

You may want to be specific about parental rights in case of various things, God forbid.

Thanks for the advice,

We are still trying to work out what would be best all around. I can assure that we will button up everything on the legal side once we get it done.

Hi Six,
You are fortunate in that you have resources and options to make this all work. These situations happen all the time where the mother of the baby decides to keep the baby and the maternal side of the family helps out. In this instance, it is just the paternal side of the family that is "stepping forward."

Sounds like you and Sam both had the same feelings at about the same time; You both wanted to step forward and take care of this new memeber of the family. Congratulations and the Best to All of You.

FWIW, I think you should confirm that the baby IS your son's own by a DNA test prior to committing to any sort of custodial arrangement.