I have asked her what she was doing and she is planning on Christmas shopping on sat. Dec. 6. The concert is sun. Dec. 7. I have noticed a ticket purchase for one ticket. The ticket is not for me. It is not my kind of music. It is in a night clup with several different bands playing dance music, rap, etc. I am sure she is planning on going with her toxic freind that she gets drunk with or maybe her sister or maybe even OM1 or OM2. By the way OM1 lives in the town where the concert is being held. (Interesting). The PI knows the DJ that is hosting the concert and has been told that the DJ will let him in the concert with his survellance equipment.

I am documenting everything. Look at my previous post as to what is going on now. It seems to be something different with her all of the time. I am not going to watch her squirm, I am going to give her enough rope to hang herself. i already know that if D is imenent I more than likely will not loose in court because to the shild endagerment with the DWI.

So, did you ask her what she was doing on Sunday?

I'm with LG - plan something for the family and make it a BIG DEAL for that day. Make sure it runs past the time of the concert, or that everyone's tired by the time you return home so that attending the concert is out of the question. And hide the ticket when the day arrives. Put it in one of her dresses, or another location that's in "her" space. If she actually is gaslighting you, it might be fun to turn the tables for awhile (evil grin).

Hogfan, I'm still not understanding your GOAL here. What is your GOAL - to recover your M, or to get a D on the best terms possible for you? What is it that you actually want?

I am looking for enoguh evidence to have a nuclear confrontation with my W and nuclear exposure to everyone involved in what used to be our lives together. Then see where it goes from there.

I think you need to set yourself a clear long-term goal rather than "playing it by ear" as far as your M is concerned. Your life and your children's lives will be affected by the decisions you make, so those decisions need to be driven by that long-term goal.

So yes, plan for exposure, but that exposure should be only part of a much larger plan for your M, i.e. whether you want to save it, or to D on the best possible terms for yourself and your kids.

You need a better goal than "see where it goes from there".

You have been given advice to expose, but you're stalling.
It's been explained to you why early exposure is important, but you ignore the advice.

You've been told you should be in Plan A, meeting her ENs, and avoiding LBS, but you had excuses as to why you could not (did not want to) do that.

You've been asked what your goal is, divorce or reconciliation, and you've vacillated on that.

You are going to find yourself divorced and wondering what happened if you don't set some goals and follow some plans. You have a lot of experienced people putting a lot of time into helping you, and you're making one excuse or argument after another. Why is that? Why are you so strongly resisting the advice and suggestions that have been given to you?

I am not ignoring any adive and not trying to make any excuses. I just do not feel like I have the prrof that I need to expose and be believed. I do want to reconcile, but I am not sure that she is willing. I guess my biggest fear is this is the 2nd OM that I know about, how can you trust that there will not be a 3rd, 4th? How do you believe in someone that has betrayed you twice, and will in no way go NC or palce opposite sex friends on the backburner and put her kids and H first. I am in the second one. Maybe I over reacted over the first one, but I do feel that this one is full blown with all of the hiding and secrets. I love my wife and my kids, and I do more than anything in theis world want to fix this, but how do you trust after the second go around.

hogfan, in order to wake your wife up, it will be important to create as much conflict as possible in her affair. That means asking her to take her affair conversations out of your home, confronting the OM, exposing the affair. Tell her you can't continue to live like this and about how disrespectful and painful it is.

But you can't continue to procrastinate action while waiting for this or for that. You don't need to catch them in the act to know that her behavior is killing your marriage and to ask her to stop. Her "friendship" with other men is unacceptable and is hurting your marriage. Ask her to STOP NOW because you cannot live like that.

If she refuses to stop, then start making plans to separate. I suspect that is what it will take with your wife.

But, hogfan, you are dragging your feet while your wife gets more and more enboldened and her affair gets more entrenched. You are ENABLING your wife by doing nothing.

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There WILL BE a 3rd and a 4th if you don't start doing something. Doing nothing has led you to this place. She has no reason to stop, hogfan.

Tell her that her affairs are very painful to you and your marriage cannot survive her "friendships" with these men. It doesn't matter if she wants to call it a BALONEY SANDWICH, don't let her divert you with bullcrap over definitions just tell you cant live like that.

Then go see the OM and tell him to stop. If he doesn't, you will have him dragged into court to give testimony under oath about his affair with your wife.

You're getting the cart before the horse. You're focused on reconciliation and trust before the A has ended.
Right now you'll see better results if you:
Expose the A
Meet her ENs
Avoid LBs

Don't worry about whether she wants to reconcile. Don't worry about how you can trust her in the future - it's going to be HER job to earn back your trust; the onus is not on you to freely give trust where it is not deserved.

hogfan, do everything in your power to kill the affair. Until that happens this train is not going forward.

How do you do all of those things when the W is still in the A if that it really is. How do you do those things when the W is so distant towards you and acts like you do not want to exist. How do you do those things when you know/expect what could be going on for the second time. She told me after the first OM that she was trying to rebuild my trust, and now look. I can show you numerous emails from my wife about how she would never do this again. She told me that some of this is my fault because I never dropped talking about OM1, that I kept bringing up all the time and hanging it over her head. The problem I had/have is that she never understood what a slap in the face it was that she was at work with OM1 all day every day, and never established NC. She claims that she did not talk to him for 4 months, but we all know that is hog wash. When OM2 showed up all of the signs and actions that she showed with OM1 showed up. That is how I caught it. She told me that she has known OM2 for a year and he is like a brother to her, but she did not start texting him until September and that is also when she started hiding it and changing passwords. She claims she changed passswords and locked her phone because I was snooping and invading her privacy. I always thoguth marriage was an open book with no secrets/privacy. Everything was to be shared. I guess this hurts so much because of how comitted I have been to my W. I do not believe that she is comitted any longer or interested in making our marriage stronger than before. She is the one that quit counseling and not a week later this started with OM2. The counseling we were attending used a lot of the same concepts onthis site. She claims she quit because the counselor was telling her to limit her conversations with OM and to not let them get personal, and that no one is going to tell her who she can talk to, for how long, and about what. so she quit. I feel like when she quit she quit on the family/marriage. I can show you where after OM1 where she asked me what I needed and one of the things was she had to quit working where she is. A year later she is still there.

hogfan, we told you what to do. Instead of listening to us - people who have saved our marriages - you are listening to the fogbabble "claims" of a falling down drunk. I DON'T KNOW WHY...

Don't allow her to have her affair conversations in your house, expose the affair and go have a come-to-Jesus with the OM. Go scare him to death and give him motivation to stop. Tell him he will be dragged into court to give testimony about his affair and his texts will be subpoenaed. CAll his wife over and over again, every time he contacts your wife again. Expose at work by complaining to her bosses. Go file for legal separation on the grounds of adultery. But you have to do SOMETHING. You can't just sit there.

You just suck it up and DO IT.
You meet her top ENs.
You spend time with her.
You expose the A.
You eliminate your LBs.
You make it hard for her to continue the A.

YOU control ALL of the above. It matters not a whit whether your W is in an A or not. You just man up, grit your teeth, and do it.

You guys never recovered.

If you had, you'd have more than emails with empty promises. You'd have shared cellphone accounts and plenty of time spent together every week. You'd know her top ENs and how she likes them met (and you'd be meeting them). She'd understand that you had to talk and talk and talk about the affair until it lost its poisonous grip on you. She'd understand how important it is that she never have contact with OM ever in her life, and she'd enforce that herself, voluntarily, out of a desire to have a happy M with you. She'd understand healthy boundaries in a marriage and how to enforce them.

But you guys never properly recovered. This time you've got Marriage Builders and you can properly recover. But first you have to end the A.

That means:
Expose
Meet ENs
Avoid LBs

So, when are you going to start?

All of this is a meaningless diversion. What she "claims" is about as relevant as the rantings of a falling down drunk. Your W is high on the addiction of an affair[s] and instead of taking steps to save your marriage, you are hanging on the words of a DRUNK. You will get NOWHERE FAST doing this. We are trying to tell you to ignore her babblings and start TAKING ACTION to save your marriage.

Please stop wasting your time - and ours - by typing out fogbabble. You have a marriage to save.

Tell the truth. You're just afraid that if you expose, she will be MAD at you, aren't you? You're afraid it will make her pack up and leave.

So in the meantime you sacrifice yourself to get yourself (with wife), and all you have left is a carcass.

Quit worrying about making her mad. You have two choices:

(1)Let her have as many affairs as she wants, as long as she continues to live with you, which will make her hate you. Which will end in divorce or suicide.

(2) Man up and tell her this will stop now by exposing the affair and letting her experience her own consequences - and maybe get your marriage back.

Those are your options. Which one makes more sense?

I appreciate all of the replies. You all make it sound so easy. I want to expose now, and to OM wife again, but what do i expose with. I really have no proof yet. besides them texting, and OM in the vehicle with my W. I do want to save my marriage, and I will expose. Hoping to get the proof that I feel I need to do the exposing in a few days. I want the OMW to work with me on this and for that to happen she will have to believe that what I have is not innocent liek she seems to think it is now. Yes, I want to save my marriage rather than D, and I know spending time toghether is improtant. That is one of my top EN, but when I mention spending some time together or that we do not spend any together, she comes back with we do not have to spend all of our time together. Some days I feel like I am fighting a winless battle.

melodylane - I can tell the OM all of that stuff. But OM has the same cell phone service that my W has (at&t), and you can get the details of how many texts, but you can not actually get the texts themselves. at&t does not record text messages, they do not use a server to record and keep them. I have already called and asked them about it.

And how would the OM know this? Do you plan on telling him? What in the world ARE YOU THINKING?

hogfan, you don't need any more evidence than what you have to talk to the OMW. You have enough as it is. Your W and this man are having an affair which is evidenced by incessant texts and by meetings in the car. You have every right to demand they stop. This is an infringement on your marriage and you need to put a stop to it, NO MATTER WHAT THE AFFAIREES CALL IT. It does not matter if they call it a DOG FART, it is disrespectful and needs to STOP.

Stop dithering around under the guise of "waiting for more evidence" to take action!