I agree with both the writer and with lifeschoice. I think that romantic affairs can hit in even happy marriages and that the OP is not in any particular way "better." But, just like individuals, affairs will have some variations, that will not follow the script. What I have found so much peace from this site is that there is enough of a script that all the affairs follow that it reinforces that the affair is about the WS's failings -- not about the BS.
BF439

Originally Posted By: SDCWman[quote=Tabby1]
[Back to your original question]
Since virtually every WS feels (as you did as well) that they have irreversibly "fallen out of love" with their S and the M is irretrievably "hopeless", one must wonder...

Why did you not just leave your S and get a D to be on your own?
Why did you stay in a M that was so miserable?
Why did you not find happiness as a single person if you couldn't have it in your M?
Why did you not express these sentiments LOUD & CLEAR to your S BEFORE?

ANSWER: Because none of the justifications are anything more than PARTLY TRUE and the A is a fantasy escape excuse for leaving the M rather than dealing with problems in a healthy and productive way.

These hit so close to home for me. I don't think WH has asked these yet and that just says to me that he's got to be in a deep fog or something. We went from him confessing (I had no clue, because nothing changed except he spent less time at home), him wanting to work on marriage ("I love you, I married you...") to him having doubts and it wasn't getting better (of course he was in contact and seeing her) to "I'm not in love with you, I don't think I ever loved you," to "we are over." That whole process can only make sense if put into context with fog. Otherwise, how does one explain that he loved me and wanted to work on the marriage at initial exposure and then evolved to a point where he never loved me and our marriage was awful.
The fog speak has hurt me more than I think even his actions. I can almost deal with the personal failing of him being with someone else, but to take away the reality of my marriage to justify his choices is devastating. I've probably said this all in previous posts, but its still helpful to get that out once in awhile. I hope the FWS's who read this post think about the above statement -- its not just the affair to apologize for; its also all the words that came after and the scars they caused.
I hope WH is thinking about some of those posted questions, because really, do you throw away a marriage because an affair "woke me up from complacency." Isn't complacent a word for satisfied? Happy, even?
BF439

Yes, my WstbxH said all of these. I nevery actually said any of these, though I believe I did recognize that I was not "in" romantic love in the sense. In Frank Pittman's article, he says that romantic affairs happen to people who are depressed. I wasn't depressed and I was actually very happy with life. I was disappointed that my marriage wasn't what I had envisioned it to be but I had come to accept it. He had other qualities and all ENs that could be fulfilled in other ways, were (recreational companionship, conversation, admiration, respect etc through work, hobbies). I actually worked very hard to come to that place. I didn't know about MB, so instead of focusing on my M, I focused on myself. Probably how I created the environment that enabled the A in the first place - but I was still blindsided as I thought we were happy.


These are the questions I continue to fail to understand. I actually contemplated separation and D earlier on, but then I found my own way. My M really wasn't miserable - it just wasn't fulfilling. How do you go from that, to sleeping with someone else?

See this was something I always knew all along. I didn't choose NOT to have an affair because it wasn't a choice on the table. I could have chosen D, but instead I tried to make the situation so I would be happy in my M. I was successful, but I failed to ensure that he was also happy in the M. But that doesn't excuse him, because obviously there are other solutions out there other than cheating.

Interesting you would feel the need to defend your affair partner.

Your children in your eyes may not have been neglected but an affair is an abusive assault on their family that could well have shattered their security and limited their life's choices.

Your affair may well have been an aberation of your character but why are you getting so hung up over what this man says? His views would mirrir the experiences of many here so why dismiss him like that?


Well it makes perfect sense to many BS's here. His view certainly makes perfect sense to me.

Did you really mean to imply OM affaired up and take a shot at his betrayed wife, your victim, like this?

LC,

I stated some very demonstrable generalities and used words like "usually", "commonly", and "often" as qualifiers; certainly exceptions exist as ANYONE, no matter what their "station in life", can potentially get involved in an A as a WS or an OP if their boundaries are not vigorously defended. [I hope we can all agree that having an A under ANY circumstances is ALWAYS WRONG.]

Secondly, those generalizations are often applicable to THE OP in the affair relationship and when present serve, as Dr. Pittman wrote, to ACCENTUATE the "opposites attract", "forbidden fruit" addictiveness. The more "different" the affair partner is, the more common it is for the WS to attach added value to the A's "newness" and "freshness" as compared to the M. Certainly, rescue fantasies (in either direction) play a role here. [I realize in a co-adulterous situation that a WS is also an OP at the same time, so the picture becomes muddied.]

Although I stand by what I wrote (having researched it and SEEN it in real life in sadly multiple occurrences), I am sorry if you found it personally insulting. Of course, it was not directed at anyone in particular or intended as a "put-down".

Hopefully, I am mis-reading you here, but it almost sounded like you were defending your former OM and the A by stating that "he is a doctor" (as though an advanced degree makes what he did any less disgusting) and that "you never neglected your children in way, shape, or form". One would be hard pressed to come up with a more damaging and ruinous "neglect" of children than to subject them to adultery and all the deleterious common after-effects...divorce and the loss of loving and stable 2-parent family intimacy.

So glad to hear that you and your H have recovered and avoided that disaster...

I never stopped loving my H during my A. I also think that the generalisations about who has A's and who they have them with are very far off the mark. Ludicrously off the mark.

I also don't think LC was "defending" the OM. Just stating facts. I could do the same as LC and I wouldn't be defending the OM either, just refuting the generalisations put forward.

And I'm 100% sure most BS's would disagree with you.

That's as maybe BigK, but I can only say what I know. I never stopped loving my H and none of those generalisations fit at all.

No doubt they are as ludicrously off the mark for you as most BS's will find your comments about their spouses affair partners perhaps?

Ok, I was speaking for myself. It really is neither here nor there what the A partner was like. A's suck no matter who or what or where. We (FWSs) made the choice to have an A. That is really all that matters. There are no justifications and no caveats. So the OM was none of those things in the generalisations. He still cheated on his wife and I cheated on my H.

I would wonder the following (and perhaps LC is the exception to this):

If "you" (as the WS) were emotionally well-adjusted and SINGLE, would "the OP" be someone with whom you would want to pursue and indulge in a romantic relationship? Esp. if the OP is married?

My guess is that, in the vast majority of circumstances, the honest answer would be NO!!!

Well, I went out with the OM from when I was 13 to when I was 18. My A with him happened 30 years later.

So maybe my situation is weird too.

I almost feel you are forcing me into a position to defend myself and I refuse to defend the indefensible. It sucked, it was wrong and I regret it every day.

More from Dr. Pittman:

"I have cleaned up more affairs than a squad of motel chambermaids. Infidelity is a very messy hobby. It is not an effective way to find a new mate or a new life.

It is not a safe treatment for depression, boredom, imperfect marriage, or inadequate gender splendor. And it certainly does not impress the rest of us. It does not work for women any better than it does for men. It does excite the senses and the imaginations of those who merely hear the tales of lives and deaths for love, who melt at the sound of liebestods or country songs of love gone wrong.

I think I've gotten more from infidelity as an observer than all the participants I've seen. Infidelity is a spectator sport like shark feeding or bull fighting—that is, great for those innocent bystanders who are careful not to get their feet, or whatever, wet. For the greatest enjoyment of infidelity, I recommend you observe from a safe physical and emotional distance and avoid any suicidal impulse to become a participant."

I find it hard to believe that someone can claim to "never stopped loving" their spouse during their A. TRUE love is an intimate sense of respect and empathy and value and honor for and with another person. The essence of adultery requires selfish entitlement, resentment, disrespect for another's feelings, and devalueing & dishonoring them in the process.

I'm afraid I find this contention to be "ludicrously off the mark" in itself.

Funny - I totally agree. One of my wife's foggiest ever statements shortly after she came back home was that she and he wondered what would happen if his wife and I were dead. As you can imagine that thought was not well received.

I very much doubt most affairees would consider their affair partner a suitable mate were they single. Affairs do weird things to people for sure. Without the secrecy, there is nothing there!

Ok, BigK, you totally agree. How do you explain my situation then? The OM was someone I would have married if I hadn't decided that life with him would have been "boring". I didn't want to marry an engineer. I thought he put other things above me so I broke up with him.

I DID love my H throughout the A. I could never bring myself to say the "L" word to the OM. It would have meant that I didn't love my H and I knew that I did.

"The essence of adultery requires selfish entitlement, resentment, disrespect for another's feelings, and devalueing & dishonoring them in the process."

I didn't resent my H, I didn't feel entitled to have an A but I disrespected his feelings and I dishonoured and devalued him.

Yes, BigK, I must agree. My xWW very foggily told me that she WOULD have chosen to be with her OM under "normal" circumstances. I can GUARENTEE you that this is NOT TRUE. I say this not merely from conjecture but with firm evidence from her own mouth and actions and values amply demonstrated for many years beforehand.

Affairs do crazy things to people. Sane people act insanely. Sensible people act insensensibly. Upright and moral people act depravedly and immorally. People with standards sell out and sacrifice everything they have and believe in. Caring and sensitive people callously and wantonly inflict unimaginable pain upon all who love them. There is nothing remotely noble or honorable about it at all...

Jen,

With the greatest respect I can muster, let me say that YOUR SPECIFIC SITUATION is not the "norm"

It's NOT all about YOU Jen.

Despite this NOT fitting your specific UNIQUE circumstances, you only have to read on MB for 5 minutes to see how it fits with most peoples experiences.