|
|
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,880
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,880 |
For what it's worth, TC9, if I was given an ultimatim when I was in the throes of my affair, I would have walked out the door. And my OM was married with kids and 2,000 miles away so I would not have been walking into OM's arms -- just away from my H and very likely forever. As it is, since I confessed (so my situation is different than yours) and my H and I are working together to find each other and our ENs, we have re-connected in a way that we haven't had in 8 years since our son was born. When I was in my affair, I was sure I was in the affair because my marriage was broken and not worth keeping anyway. I was terribly unahappy, my H didn't give a rat's backside about me (so I thought), and I deserved something better. Call it the fog or whatever. But if the man who I perceived as being the one who was causing my unhappiness told me to pick between him and the one I did perceive as making me happy... I would not have picked my H. I (mistakenly) saw H as being a cause of all my problems, not the solution. Why would I pick the problem and not what I thought was the fix? I would have left my H.
Anyway... My H and I are in very early stages of recovery and it's possible we may not make it. But we're trying and I'm hopeful. My experience is not gospel. It's just mine. What I've learned from the MB practices is helping me tremendously and I wanted to encourage you to stay the path you're on with Steve and MB. Just my 2-cents. No solution is going to work for everyone. Most times the OM is not 2,000 miles away. The OM is nearby, and the WW is sleeping with him on a regular basis. Once a WW is busted, the ultimatum should be delivered. If the WW "walks out the door", then out the door is exactly where she should be. Any wife who would continue to see the OM...to rub her husband's face in it like that...should find herself tossed out on her posterior. The BH would probably be better off, anyway, in both the short and long-term.
Divorced
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,414
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,414 |
Krazy,
My thoughts EXACTLY, and if you've ever taken the time to read Looking4's story, you will see that it fits your hypothesis perfectly.
Plan A, etc. may be a good option for BW/WH situations, but strong, decisive ACTION is almost always the best tactic in BH/WW cases. WW's are a completely different animal, and should be treated differently by this site.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,153
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,153 |
For what it's worth, TC9, if I was given an ultimatim when I was in the throes of my affair, I would have walked out the door. Personally, I would have let you walk. In my mind you would not have been worth the trouble. I don't mean you personally Looking4 since I don't know you. I'm referring to ANY wayward. I'm with Krazy and Myrev. Toss her TC. A man should not have to take seconds on his wife.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 |
p.s. in my last marriage - 20 year marriage - I told my H to GET OUT. He said "OK." [yippee!!] And didn't look back. He was happy that he didn't have to be the bad guy and was free to move out and resume his affair in peace! YIPPEE!
He is still with his OW to this day. I did the OW a huge favor - I handed her my H on a silver platter and justified my H's demonization of ME all in the same fell swoop.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,153
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,153 |
[ When you give people ultimatums it only works if you have something to bring to the bargain table. I'l be**edit***if I bargained for my marriage! You want to talk about future resentment? In my opinion unrecoverable.
Last edited by JustUss; 12/04/08 03:20 PM. Reason: tos
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,222
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,222 |
The problem with Steve's advice is usually based on saving your marriage at all costs. This is usually for fathers who don't want to break up their family for their kids' sakes. You don't have any. Your WW won't leave you as long as you play dumb and allow her to continue her affair. Eventually her affair will die out and you will have the opportunity to be the one to fill her love bank. But why would you want to do this? After having to endure this for another 6 months to a year, would you even be willing to reconcile by the time her affair dies out?
My question to you is this: Why do you still want to salvage your marriage with this woman? Because you love her is just not a good enough excuse. There are plenty of women out there in the world that you can love that will love you back. This woman has cheated on you just months after marrying you and has zero remorse about it. This woman does not share your values. Are you sure you want her to be the woman that raises your children? You need to think about this long and hard before you blidly follow Steve's advice. While it may better your chances at the survival of your marriage, is that really the type of marriage that you want to live with?
Jim BS - 32 (me) FWW - 33 Married 8/31/03 No kids (but 3 cats) D-Days - 8/25/06 (EA), 11/3/06 (PA) NC agreed to - 11/8/06 NC broken - 11/28/06, 12/16/06, 1/18/07, 1/26/07, 1/27/07 Status - In Recovery Jim's Story
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,816
Administrator Member
|
|
Administrator Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,816 |
This member is here to learn about Marriage Builders!!
It would be appreciated if you would show some respect for that purpose. This is Marriage Builders, after all.
JustUss
Administrator/Moderator
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 9,574 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 9,574 Likes: 1 |
Deleted my post, I liked how JustUss said it better
Last edited by ears_open; 12/04/08 03:30 PM.
Me 40, OD 18 and YD 13
Married 15 years, Divorced 10/2010
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,880
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,880 |
I think Dr. Harley could really help with the aftermath of the affair in this case...should the WW decide to give it an honest try. I'd have tried him by now, but I can't afford him. 
Divorced
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,222
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,222 |
Also, if I were you, this is what I would do.
1) I would tell her that my spidey sense is telling me that she is still in contact w/ OM, and that she needs to start looking for another job.
2) I would alert OMW that your WW and OM are still in contact and discussing sexually explicit subjects. Tell her that you have your sources.
3) I would go into her email and block both OM's email addresses.
4) I would give your WW about another month or two to find another job, and if she refuses, then I would file for D and tell her she needs to find somewhere else to live (or move out myself if you are just renting).
All the while you should be doing plan A until you do plan D.
Jim BS - 32 (me) FWW - 33 Married 8/31/03 No kids (but 3 cats) D-Days - 8/25/06 (EA), 11/3/06 (PA) NC agreed to - 11/8/06 NC broken - 11/28/06, 12/16/06, 1/18/07, 1/26/07, 1/27/07 Status - In Recovery Jim's Story
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,399
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,399 |
Personally, I would have let you walk. And I would deserve that, iam. I have zero expectation that my H needs to try to save our marriage after what I did. Zero. But if my H is willing to try (he's on the fence, changing his mind every day), I'm at the battle station. In the case of TC9, it sounds like he wants to try to save his marriage. I was just giving the perspective of a betrayer. Whether TC9 chooses to stay or go, is up to him. Whatever methods he uses, is also up to him. For me, an ultimatim would have not given him the results he wants if indeed he wants to keep the relationship. But that's me based on my circumstances at the time of my PA. My H's and my experience may have no relation to what TC9 and his W are facing. If TC9 decdides to toss her as you suggest, than even the ultimatim isn't needed. (Sorry for the T/J, TC9,)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,880
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,880 |
Trying to manipulate him?
Can you give me one reason why I would do such a thing?
There isn't any money to be had on my end. I gain nothing no matter what he chooses to do.
I'm not suggesting plan B. That would imply that I advocate taking the WS back at some point. I do not. An ultimatum is an ultimatum, or it's hot air.
I don't need to trash anyone to "justify my actions".
I'm in a situation that generally (I'm guessing) ends in divorce 99% of the time, well before the 2.5 year mark.
I have lived it. I'm living it right now. I gave the ultimatum, and it worked. Will it work for everyone? Depends. Are you willing to let your WS continue to sleep with OP for a few more weeks or months while you try to "make the marriage an attractive place to be"? If so, great. Give Plan A a try. Many people have had success with it.
Me, I'm not that patient.
Divorced
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 279
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 279 |
I would tell her that my spidey sense is telling me that she is still in contact w/ OM I've been doing this the last few days. I would alert OMW that your WW and OM are still in contact and discussing sexually explicit subjects. Tell her that you have your sources. Steve H recommended against this because the OMW will confront the OM, he will tell my WW, and that will be a huge LB, which will work against Plan A which is all about avoiding LBs. I would go into her email and block both OM's email addresses. This would give away my source of information driving the A further underground. They still have the ability to see each other around work, so not emailing would not prevent contact, it would only take away my only source of information. Also, doing this is another huge LB. I would give your WW about another month or two to find another job, and if she refuses, then I would file for D and tell her she needs to find somewhere else to live (or move out myself if you are just renting). We'd have to move to another state for her to find another job, her industry is an extremely small one. tell her she needs to find somewhere else to live (or move out myself if you are just renting) Unfortunately we have a mortgage.
Me, BH - 26
WW - 27
d-day - 10/28/08
d-day 2 - 12/15/08
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,880
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,880 |
Whatever you decide to do, you need to re-prioritize.
How important is your marriage to you?
I would've dropped my job like a bad habit and moved to another state if that's what it took.
If your W cares one bit about your marriage, and maybe she doesn't, she'll agree.
Any marriage in which one spouse places career above family is doomed to fail, anyway.
As far as the mortgage goes, remember that there is no debtor's prison.
Divorced
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 279
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 279 |
I asked steve H about plan B and he said he usually doesn't recommend it for younger people without kids. It effectively throws the WS into the OP's arms and makes it easy for them to just forget the previous few years of their lives and move on.
I guess the reason that I am so he// bent on trying to recover my M is that I don't think I could live with myself if i walked away and didn't even try. I think I would spend the rest of my like looking back and wondering if I gave up on what could have become the best thing in my life but was too weak to even try. If I put all my effort into plan A, and WW still continues to build her relationship with OM, then soon enough all of my love for her will drain away and it will be easy to walk away.
Me, BH - 26
WW - 27
d-day - 10/28/08
d-day 2 - 12/15/08
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 279
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 279 |
I would've dropped my job like a bad habit and moved to another state if that's what it took. I've told her that I was willing to do this. Her position is that since she is in the middle of a 3 year residency, she would have to start over. Not a bid deal in my opinion, but she is still in her fog, so I guess her opinion on moving is predictable.
Me, BH - 26
WW - 27
d-day - 10/28/08
d-day 2 - 12/15/08
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,510
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,510 |
This member is here to learn about Marriage Builders!!
It would be appreciated if you would show some respect for that purpose. This is Marriage Builders, after all. Without insulting anyone, I wish that the people yelling 'jump" to people here on ledges would have at least gone through counseling with Steve or Jen. I have counseled with both of them, and my marriage is better for it, despite the horror this year. I love my W to pieces, and we are together 8 years after I came here with a marriage in trouble, and we raised my kids to late teens in a happy home due to MB. Perfect and in love every moment? Definitely not, but you break up in your 40s and you are going to find out everyone out there has baggage. First off, I gave an ultimatum, so obviously I'm not against it. Short of physical violence, barely short, I can't imagine a more dramatic D-day reaction than mine. But someone tell me exactly what that ultimatum should be? I had a list of demands better than most due to my Harley reading and counseling. But if your only "ultimatum" is merely "don't contact the OP", then you are not being strong ENOUGH. There is a procedure here, and with ultimatums, you may only get one bite at the apple.
Last edited by Mike_C2; 12/04/08 03:55 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 279
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 279 |
If I did resort to an ultimatum, it would include NC with OM and that WW resign from her job.
Me, BH - 26
WW - 27
d-day - 10/28/08
d-day 2 - 12/15/08
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,510
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,510 |
I posted this elsewhere but maybe it bear repeating:
I believe Steve and Jennifer are advocates of first trying to pull the WP into a fledgling effort at marital recovery, and trying to make the BS seem to be a viable option with hope for happiness for the WS.
I would guess that 90 percent of the couples that come to them had or are having an affair. It would be nice if they could flip a switch in the first call and break up the affairs, but there is a powerful addiction there, and most affairs do not end D-day.
Some, most, BS may walk away that day. The people who are here on this board are choosing not to.
Now, if a BS got on the phone with Steve or Jennifer and said, I can't take this for one more second, I'm going to expose, tell me how, I suppose they would give advice.
But if I were Steve and Jennifer and just walked in advocating preciptate action without doing some professional information gathering and trying to find a more peaceful amicable path, I am guessing they would find themselves in court quite a bit as accessories to some violent acts.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,510
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,510 |
If I did resort to an ultimatum, it would include NC with OM and that WW resign from her job. My list included this: -- committing to the marriage -- all her email and cell passwords -- an STD test -- quitting her job -- keeping me apprised of her whereabouts every second -- sending a no contact letter to OM -- answering each and every question I asked regarding the affair truthfully, no matter how detailed or intimate -- taking a child on any shopping or errand trips -- giving me contact info on the OM and his W (and I called them) -- immediately beginning Harley therapy and reading the material -- getting on anti-deps -- apologizing to kids and me in a family meeting -- writing a what and where document and signing it for my use in a divorce case if there was any further contact She did agreed to each of the above and I let her move back home from the Comfort Inn, which, I am told, offered her little comfort.
|
|
|
Moderated by Ariel, BerlinMB, Denali, Fordude, IrishGreen, MBeliever, MBsurvivor, MBSync, McLovin, Mizar, PhoenixMB, Toujours
|
0 members (),
644
guests, and
88
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums67
Topics133,625
Posts2,323,525
Members72,045
| |
Most Online6,102
Jul 3rd, 2025
|
|
|
|
