In my case OW was also a BS so perhaps she had checked out of her M due to her H's A. My FWH was a cake eater and never intended to leave me.

However, when it comes to recovery I think it depends on the personalities of the spouses and the level of remorse soon after D-day.

Yes, I agree and that is my experience as well.

As to whether a WS seeks reconciliation, Dr. Pittman says they almost always do (or at least put out "feelers"). It just seems that there is more resistance to overcome usually with a WW because they have foggily convinced themselves that their "M was over" beforehand. A WH, on the other hand, is more likely to have been impetuously foolish at the outset and later realize that his marriage/family still has a lot of value for him. Men tend to be more logical when the fog clears just enough to offer a moment of semi-clarity; women tend to be more emotional in the same circumstance and have therefore less motivation to recover their love for the BH. Just read some posts here on MB...it is easy to see who wants to cake-eat and who believes is is 'hopeless'.

My WW wrote me while we were separated (and before I even knew of the A): "I know it is up to me to move us away from here [limbo--I didn't want the D]...one way or the other, and I'm struggling with that". Well, women "think with their hearts" so you know where that went ---> to the OM. I'm sure she is too "invested" to admit a mistake at this point, although I know she regrets it now.

Interesting thing is, Women's Day magazine surveyed their female subscribers who had chosen to file for D (most of whom were in romantic affairs and "had lost their love for their husbands and fallen in love with another OM") 3 years afterwards....85% of these women regretted at that point their decision to not stay in the M and "work it out". Every woman I have talked to in 'real life' has told me that "we women want to believe our feelings despite any evidence to the contrary" in a relationship.

The grass is rarely greener in the long run which brings me to the next post....

There are far more important SIMILARITIES than differences between WWs and WHs with regard to romantic affairs (RA).
[same sources as above, Dr. Pittman, et al...]
For both genders:

RAs are equally destructive and indefensible
The fantasy escape motivations are the same
The process and insane illogicality are the same
The lies, denials, rationalizations ("the fog") apply equally
The affair-partners involved are equally unsuitable/incompatible mates
The compromises and sacrifices made are equally egregrious
The chance of long-term "success and happiness" in a RA is equally very poor
The chance of eventual regret is equally high
The "in love high" wears off in 2-3 years max for both genders
BHs & BWs are equally forgiving and desiring of reconciliation (no matter what they said or how they felt before the A)

Great topic here are my thoughts on it having had to deal with a WW.

Dr. Harley says in his opinion that a BH should Plan "A" for up to 6 months with his WW which is double the time for a BW with her WH.

JMHO but I think there is a huge difference and perception regarding men and women. Here is how my WW thought:

1. She could have sex with OM and if divorced she could have him.
2. She could get the house and I would be out.
3. She gets the kids and I would be gone.
4. OM could move right in and her life would not change.
5. She could get Alimony
6. She could get Child Support
7. She gets my 401k

In her mind she could cheat and she could get my money and home and assets and the OM. So knowing that why should she have remorse when she does not fear it like a man would.

Now I did have opportunities to cheat when we were married. I never did cheat on her but here is what always went thru my mind if I would have cheated.

1. I would lose my kids.
2. I would lose my home.
3. I may have to pay Alimony and Child Support
4. Lose at least 1/2 of all assets ( At least).

Those were my thoughts. I think with the way people are conditioned a WH has a lot to lose if they cheat and after caught they do not end things and show remorse. My now XW ( I had phone conversations and emails ) indicated that she could get it all and dump me. I simply don't think most men think that is a reality for them.

My mom was a WW also. From seeing her I found out how not playing hardball with a WW is a big mistake. She was vindictive and nasty. My poor dad suffered at her hands but it did teach me a lesson.

In my opinion begging and pleading and negotiating with a WW is a big mistake. I would have thought that if I cheated in my marrige I would lose everything and be entitled to nothing. My wife thought the exact opposite, she was entitled to everything I had worked my whole life for and she was also entitled to sleeping with another dude.

I threw her out and filed for divorce. This was a woman that would not back down from anything and acted like she did not care about me. As soon as I threw her out and filed she changed. She begged me not do divorce her and started acting like a human again. If I would have tried to Plan A it just would have been weakness in her eyes. Proof that there are no consequences.

By being aggresive I saved my assets and kids. She was free to go with the OM but now did not want to. I feel sorry for her in some ways but in others she got what she deserved.

Think about it this way. In my opinion a WW would act differently if in their mind they were looking at the following:

1. No custody of their kids
2. Pay child support to their husband
3. Maybe even Alimony
4. She would lose the house.

Statistics show that women file for divorce at around 2/3 of the time. They also walk out of marriages at a much higher rate than men. I am sure they are unhappy in the marriage and they take steps to stop the pain. There is a reason why it is not 50/50 for the percentages. Men and Women are different and the women do not fear the courts as much as men do.

I just think there is a different fear when a WW or a WH is discovered. I just think a WH feels he has more to lose so I think they are easier to turn from the dark side. IMHO any spouse that does not stop right away and make ammends is not worth having regardless of being a WW or WH.

On top of that I usually find WW's to be much more entitled. They feel that they should get the house, custody of the kids, spousal support and child support, and move OM into the house to play "new daddy" while the BH still has to accomodate her (for the sake of the kids) and fund her lifestyle. They will also make up false claims of abuse to get what they want if the BH fails to accomodate her. I think entitled WW's are far worse to deal with. A BH usually accepts that he has to move out and will lose custody and a boatload of money in a divorce, and generally, that is why they usually try and keep the marriage going (and have the OW as well).

yep.

Interesting topic. My WstbxH carried on the A for some time before asking me for a D - which was also before d-day. The only reason it happened was because OWH found out and threw OW out. According to WstbxH OW's M was over long ago and she was already in the process of leaving OWH. OWH told me he was blindsided. So there you have it.

I also want to comment on this:

WstbxH thought pretty much the same way. Before d-day (he asked for the divorce first) he had all but convinced me to move out of the house. OW had already registered her DD7 in the local school. WstbxH was going to have her move in with her daughter and tell me that they just met and fell in love since d-day. Oh - about 7 days would have elapsed between when he asked me for a divorce and when this was supposed to occur. It's okay though - he was going to let me stay until I found a place. :RollieEyes: Oh, and I was going to pay him spousal support AND I was going to take all of the debts, including the one on his truck which he was keeping AND I was going to pay DS's tuition all on my own. AND my paycheck was going to continue being deposited in his bank.

Ya, so these specific things work for either WW or WH. These:
Were closer to how I thought, though they aren't the reason I never had an affair. I never cheated for the same reason I don't rob banks. It's simply wrong.

These were my FWH's words:
"I made up my mind that we were never going to be happy. So I was going to leave."

His A was an EA then it turned PA. Some men also think that their M is over and they check out too.

ITA.

IMHO, they are not completely different. Yes, there are some differences that can be generalized, but I think most times, in the end, being a WW or WH is not the defining characteristic, but rather its the nature of the individual and the circumstances of the A.

I think the popular idea around here lately is that BH's should not follow Dr. H's advice when dealing with WW's. No plan A or B, just upon discovery tell them if it doesn't end, the M is over, and if they fail to comply within a very short amount of time, then divorce them. The idea being that a)women respond to this, because it is the only way a women will respect a man and women fall in love with people they respect b) if they don't comply right away, they were likely never going to, and c) this will make things easier on the BH since his WW will either get "in line" right away or the BH is free to move on and pursue happiness elsewhere without any significant additional emotional damage.

I personally don't fully agree with points A and B. I think point C is probably correct, but making it easier on the BH most likely comes with the cost of ending some M's that otherwise could have been successfully recovered.

First off i am stating that i am speaking in general when i say this so don't give me too many :twobyfour: . IMHO the differences that have been mentioned in this thread similar to this one have nothing to do with being WAYWARD. They are men and women differences.

Generally speaking most men DO NOT have to have an emotional attachment to a woman to have sex with her. Most women on the other hand DO need to have an emotional attachment with a guy before having sex with him.

The betrayed part just sucks regardless of the gender!!!!

StillCrazy,

One more point. It seems that many WW's try to minimize the sex aspect of the affair. This seems very strange to guys when we spend our whole adult lives having women tell us that sex is meaningful and they will only do it when there is emotion and meaning attached to it. Then when the WW is cheating suddenly we are not supposed to focus on the sex.

So in an upside down sort of way, men use the sex in the affair as a way of measuring how committed the cheating wife was to the OM.

Well said, 6yr.

Interesting thread and thank you all for the respectful discussion. The above quote is definitely true as a general rule. To quote Dr. Pittman from Beyond Betrayal: Life After Infidelity...

"Men are able to approach sex more casually than women, a factor not only of the patriarchal double standard but also of the difference between having genitals on the outside and having them on the inside. Getting laid for all the wrong reasons is a lot less dangerous than falling in love with all the wrong people.

Men who get caught screwing around are more likely to be honest about the sex than women. Men will confess the full sexual details, even if they are vague about the emotions. Women on the other hand will confess to total consuming love and suicidal desire to die with some man, while insisting no sex ever took place. I would believe that if I'd ever seen a man describe the affair as so consumingly intense from the waist up and so chaste from the waist down. I assume these women are lying to me about what they know they did or did not do, while I assume that the men really are honest about the genital ups and downs—and honestly confused about the emotional ones."



I agree. Men are more likely to have a pure "sexual fling" affair than women are. Both genders are easily capable of having a romantic affair in which the WS "falls in love with the OP" (and "out of love" with the BS) and the relationship goes from aquaintance-->EA-->PA. Yes, the BS part is equally hurtful and devastating for either a husband or a wife.

And once again i think you are saying the same thing here. You are using the knowledge that the WW had "sex" with the OM to determine how committed she was to him.

As i stated in my previous post most women DO NOT have sex until they are emotionally involved. Therefore if she went as far as having a PA with the OM then more than likely she has already had an emotional attahment before it goes that far.

Because i also think that just as many WHs try to minimize the emotonal aspects of the A. This is strange to females as well if the A lasted long because we wonder "if it was just sex" then why did you keep going back.

I also think that after the A it is different for both genders (BH vs BW). This is also speaking generally but i think most BH get hung up on the "sex" part and most betrayed wifes get hung up on he "emotional" part.

Just because we look at "relationships" in general differntly as a gender.

I'm not sure I agree with the idea that women are not , sometimes, just as attracted by the physical part. I think we are programmed to believe this for societal reasons. But, things seem to have changed dramatically these days. I have seen and heard many women acting as predators. Look at the "cougar" thing going on these days. I think it is tougher for a woman to admit that it was all about sex, because of societal disapproval.

Very, very good point. There is no biological reason for women to need an emotional attachment to enjoy sex. It's all about fear of being percieved as a sl_t.

This is changing rapidly as time passes. Apparently, I was born about 20 years too soon.

Double yep. My ExW in two years has blown through(pun intended) the house,several $100k's of cash and at least 4 engaged and or married men and has now found herself alone. My early Xmas present from her is yet another lawsuit trying to extort more $'s that she feels entitled to even though during the D trial she admitted that I paid for 95% of her education and lifestyle.

The most interesting fact that has been relayed to me is that even though "I am the love of her life" she couldn't reconcile because she knew I would never put her back on my pedestal. And she needed to be thought of in that way to stay with any man.

Too bad waywards don't come with a caution label : Warning this product will require constant ego stroking.

Heck I would settle for the label being a yellow post-it on the forehead at first contact.

Great obsevartion. My WW is, i believe going through this right now even after two months. I dont think it is never take me back in my case but a) why does he want me back b) i dont deserve him c) still have strong feelings towards the OM.

I also agree with other point made earlier, that my wife had affair thinking that marriage was over. Or alteast that is how she justified it. In fact when she admitted to the affair, she said, the affair had nothing to do with her thinking about our marriage. She said later that she had selfish motive in admitting to the affair...hoping that i would kick her out making it easy for her to get together with OM. Alteast she was honest !

The good thing going in our case is that she is still in NC but she is not ready (or not OVERTLY ready as you say) to make any kind of committments yet to our marriage. But then we have a long way to go, right ?