Erich, you were absolutely right to ask her to take her affair conversations out of the house. Tolerating her affair conversations in front of you and the kids conveys the message that this is ok. Asking her to take it outside inserts reality into her sleazy affair and shows her how inappropriate and hurtful her affair conversations are. You did the right thing. it caused conflict in her affair and that is exactly what you are supposed to do.

I removed her from my credit cards and we don't have any joint accounts. She is very frugal so she might be able to pull off living in section-8 and living off of food stamps and child support from other dads. That was her situation before I met her.

I've been doing my best to meet her emotional needs for a month and a half now and it seemed to make her be nicer to me but that was it. She still kept up the A and I've been reading here that you cannot save the marriage while the A is going on.

Do you think that by meeting her ENs and avoiding LBs that I can win her back from this A if the A doesn't end from the exposure?

It may take a combination of many things. You want to use a stick on her affair and a carrot on your wife. It is usually the stick that kills the affair and the carrot that attracts her back into the marriage once the affair crumbles.

You have the right idea about exposing to the OM's family. I really do wonder if he isn't married, though. do you know his full name and city? if you have his phone # you can do a reverse look up on www.anywho.com. Take the name and go look it up in intellius.com to see if there are any family names listed. If you can then get his home phone # from directory assistance, you could call his house and see if a wife answers.

Do you know what he does? How old he is?

check this out, Erich:

The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A by Pepperband


The carrot of Plan A

Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.

Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.

Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.

Stop lovebusting behaviors.

Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.

Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.

Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.

Offering forgiveness and understanding.


The stick of Plan A

Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

Not apologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financal security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Plan A is both a *carrot* and a *stick*.

He is 29 and I know the city he lives in.

I found him at Intellius.com. It found the names of a lot of relatives including the sister that I already emailed. Hmm, this is a lot cheaper than hiring a PI. It even has his job info. I think I'll go ahead and buy this. I just hope he has good parents. I'm worried that he may just see me as a crazed desparate idiot and feel that my wife is even more justified in thinking that I'm a delusional person...

Jeez, dude. Your 31 year old wife is lining up Hubby number FOUR.

That has to give you some pause.

Maybe she has some issues, huh?

Anyway, if it were me, and it was, I would go straight to the OM and tell him I'm going to put him in a freaking wheelchair if he came around my W. I did it in a sudden call so no taping and no written record.

He believed me.

Oh brother... I don't know if I can do this any more..

I had to work a few ours today. When I got home WW was on the phone with OM. While she was on the phone I asked her "Would you like it if I brought drugs into our house?" She said "Drugs are illegal!" and I said "Adultery is a lot worse." and then she hung up the phone with her OM. Then a few minutes later she was talking online with OM. I disconnected our router. She got ticked, but wouldn't you know it, there is an unsecured wireless network next door so she can use the internet anyway.

The bad news is that I don't think I can do anything to stop her from talking to him in our house without throwing her computer out the window. The good news is, we don't have to pay for internet anymore...

Exposure seems to be doing no good. WW and OM feel an even stronger bond now and they both trash talk me. Now my wife is telling him that I've gotten physical with her in the past (physical abuse) and other lies. I can't believe how delusional she has become. She is off in la-la land. She is way lost in her fantasy world. I'm starting to think that the only thing that will snap her out of it is to divorce her and let her experience real life with OM..

I just don't want to go through a fierce legal battle for our little boy. Guess that's life.

Hmm, it's a roller coaster ride. I think the fantasy aspect of WWs affair is officially over. Check out this recent chat convo between WW and OM (I think I bleeped all the swear words) :

10:23 PM JamesEdward: what I say to you...is make money, enroll your kids into school (if you have no alternative) and leave....its not as difficult as you are making it. I feel like maybe somehow you dont want to leave. Its really simple...Time consuming maybe, but simple. Ive been in a failed relationship where I was stuck with my two kids.... I worked my [censored] off and dealt withthe bulls@%# until she gave me that final straw a YEAR later. Im not stupid, Im human and so are you. We all have to do things we dont like at some point in our lives. Ive offered all I have to you. If you dont want what little I can give then what do you want? Im only trying to be a friend to you. Im begining to feel like Im just convenient.
me: HEY!
10:24 PM why do you think that i dont know about working?
duh
5 minutes
10:29 PM me: and if i started someplace TOMORROW.... it would still take me a bit to save up for a place...places are expensive.....im NOT stupid! i know what it takes!!!! so yes.....i know, work, thats a duh!....i know my options....I AM WORKING ON IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THAT IS NOT MY POINT! i dont know how to tell you....and maybe you dont want to hear it...but he is being so.....watching every move i make...being such a f@#%ing a#@hole. and then being all sweetness.....i dont now how to explain....ive shoved all this s@#$ away for too too long....there is more of course....no one can understand unless they see for themselves........im miserable! i know it will take time! i knwo!!!! but you asked...and i told you....and you said what you said...thats why i didnt want to tell you.....i want to f@#^ing die! ok, so maybe you think i am a loser...but THAT IS HOW I FEEL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
10:31 PM JamesEdward: No I think no such thing...that is why I want you to talk to me
I will be here for you, but you have to take advantage of our friendship
otherwise its pointless
10:32 PM that is what friends are for , for lack of a better cliche
10:34 PM me: like what????? talk to you???? i tried! you know what else...i want to leave this place and him sooooooooooooo F^$&ING BAD!....that i started thinking suicidal s#%$.....i dont know.....at least it would be over. thats all i thought about for those dark 2 years...ok, so im a huge loser...KILL ME! please!!!!!! i hate this....i [censored] hate this...and what's worse???? you think im full of [censored]! you think i dont want to leave!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Okay, maybe someone else has mentioned this. But, your wife has been married three times, had a prior A and has actually been arrested twice for domestic violence, right? And, if you know this much, I'd bet it is the tip of the iceberg. Her parents suggesting you go for custody is a big tip off. Have you considered whether she has Borderline Personality Disorder or even NPD? She sounds really disordered, perhaps even sociopathic. Start reading up on the cluster B personality disorders. They are really bad news.

OHMIGOSH, this is beautiful! Your pressure on the affair has them LOVEBUSTING each other! This is beautiful! Your exposure and pressure has made the MORTAL ENEMY: REALITY, arrive on the scene!

See, she gets on there and harps about how evil you are, and he pressures her EVEN MORE to leave. She does not want to do that so she will start running out of excuses and will begin to avoid him. It will also become obvious that he is a dud because he is not helping her financially! One of her top needs is financial support and he offers nothing. That becomes more and more apparent.

If you continue to Plan A to the best of your ability you will look better and better in CONTRAST to the alternative of giving up her safe home, her financial support, etc.

So, this is your perfect opportunity. She is fighting with the OM now so you step up to the plate with your Plan A carrot. Kill her with kindness! YES, pay for her car repairs. He is the bad guy, you are the good guy. You are the loving husband who steps up to the plate and takes care of her FS and he is just the bum on the internet who is pushing her to go support herself, AN IDEA SHE HATES!

The contrast is wonderful! You support her, he does not! He continually pushes her to go to work. You do not! LOVEBUSTER!

If you don't pay for her car repair, that will give her COVER for not getting a job and moving out. SHE DOES NOT WANT TO GET A JOB so when her car is fixed and she still doesn't put her money where her mouth is, they will fight even more.

Tread very carefully right now because the affairees are in freefall. YOU HAVE THE AFFAIR ON THE ROPES. When your enemy is destroying himself, you don't want to interfere. Got it?

I am just loving this! You are in a good position, Erich!

Can you get her back into your bedroom? What about sexual relations? Sleeping apart like this has enabled her to emotionally DETACH from you.

Erich, you know not to fight with her, right? If she crosses a boundary, you don't fight, you politely and firmly assert your boundary. "Please take your affair conversation out of the home of me and the children. that does not belong here." Be a broken record and be a PEST, but be respectful and do not fight with her.

Is she speaking to the OM on a landline? If she is, you can get a digital phone tap from Radio Shack and stick it on an out of the way jack in the basement, garage and tape their phone calls. It makes for great evidence!

What was this you said earlier???

Yeah, guess I spoke too soon. These lovebirds are going to crash and burn. BTW, OM has offered to help her financially. I don't know how financially well-off he is but here is what he wrote in a recent email:

"and I'm not rich, but I gotcho back sista. Money is one of the easiest things to obtain in this life."

He's a commercial cable installer and has a house and two kids. I don't know if he owns his home or rents. I know he's complained about his phone always being broke. I don't think he can have very much money.

After their little LB chat last night, she left the house in her broken down car (brakes need to be replaced badly) and drove around from 1am to 5am. She said in her chat that she was going to call him on her cell phone.

Before she left the house, she changed her gmail password so I won't be able to read their chats anymore... She also has a password on her computer now too so I can't log in there either.

She is being so nasty right now. It's a real turn off to me and I feel my love bank account draining immensely. I'm not afraid of losing her anymore. I just don't want to lose our son. I'll still try to R if she will give it a chance though.

Meldoylane, I understand what you are saying about me fixing the car to shower her with kindness but others are telling me to stop the financial support to zap her into reality even further. But they don't know the exact recent circumstances from this thread so I'm going to lean toward what you are advising.. Thanks for the advice.

You need to find out if he is married, Erich!


Ok, I know you think this is bad, but it is really NOT. She is being made very uncomfortable in order to carry on her affair conversations. How horrible to have to drive around all night. Think how hard it is for her to have to drive around to have her affair conversations!

And I don't agree that you shouldn't pay for her car repairs. If you don't do it, then she will be using that as an excuse to not get a job. And will be able to demonize you in the bargain!

Fixing the car will open the door to all manner of new and exciting LOVEBUSTERS when the OM tries to push her to go to work.

Go download a keylogger and get it on her computer, Erich! Go get www.eblaster.com and you can get the reports emailed to you and you can get her password to gmail.

Who is paying the bill on her cellphone??

TOTALLY AGREE.

Not only is that a dream conversation for them to have after exposure, you also have the OM promising her money, which his W is just going to love to hear.

You have to lay low, lets this work. When someone is making a fool of themselves, don't interrupt!

PS: in terms of brakes, your kids ride in that car, right?

I don't think the carrot should include paying for her car repairs.This woman is not normal.She is disordered, most likely. She feels entitled and you will be feeding that.
Look at her past and what she is saying about you. Why don't you try talking to her past husbands? You will most likely see that they are decent guys who were steamrolled by a NPD or BPD.
My advice may be different if she did not have such a past which demonstrates her disorder. But, without a ton of therapy, she will not change and you will be stuck with her in her present condition. She has a history of violence and cheating. If she was a guy and yo a woman, do you think folks would be telling you to try to reconcile with this type of personality?

Sorry Zelmo, but cutting off financial support in Plan A is not part of the program and is strategically unwise in this case. He is not supposed to finance her affair, [hence protecting his bank account and removing her from the cc's] but he has a legal and moral obligation to support HER.

And secondly, his kids ride in that car.

Just let some judge find out in a legal proceeding that he wouldn't fix her brakes and she had to drive around with the kids like that.

It might feel good emotionally to punish her by cutting off ALL financial support but it is not strategically wise.

Melody, I think you are right. I wrote my response in the other thread but I do feel it is my responsibility to fix the car since my kids ride in the car and your other points are well taken as well (about removing stumbling blocks to her getting a job so I'm not demonized).

Good man, Erich!

Did you see my post about installing eblaster on her computer? You can download it on www.spectorpro.com, copy it to a disc and have it installed on her computer in under 5 minutes. It will email you the reports so you can get her password on gmail.

In the meantime, keep focusing on meeting her needs and avoiding lovebusters. if you see any opportunities to ROMANCE her, by all means do it!

How often do you take her out on dates?

OK, once again, thank you for your advice. I don't think I could go through this without everyone's help. Melody, you've been a particularly clear voice to me. Thanks for keeping up with all this and contributing your time to help me.

Here's a question that popped into my head. WW has been telling OM that all of her family supports her and thinks that I am a douche-bag. Only her little 20-year-old sister thinks what I did was un-cool, while the other 10 OR SO SIBS AND HER PARENTS think that I am RIGHT ON!!

Should I expose my WW lies to OM? I received an email yesterday from one of her older sibs stating that they know I'm a great hubby and that they will support me:

***********************************************************
Erich

I'm sorry to hear of that. Be assured that Jackie & I will certainly pray for you and your family. You're a good husband, father, and a great brother-in-law and we hope that [WW] will quickly recognize her mistake and seek help.
Again, you and your family will be in our prayers; please don't hesitate to contact us if U need anything!!

Yours Truly,
D & J Smith
(555) 555-5555
***********************************************************

I haven't received any other pledges of support IN EMAIL FORM like this one, but the others have told me over the phone that they think WW is wrong here and they will support me.

Should I forward this email to OM or just lay back for a little while and save this for later?