Mine too. In fact, she admires me for having the grace and fortitude to fight for our family. She is NOW thankful for every little thing I did and tried to do save her and our family. Her actions AND my actions torture her today whereas I have no regrets having done Plan A.

Mrs. W has been a great empathetic former wayward spouse. We are fortunate she cheated before I did. Our marriage was in the tank and it was only a matter of time. I would have been a horrible WH and she a horrible BW. It really worked out for the best. April 2005 was both the worst and best month of my life...for different reasons.

Mr. Wondering

Mark,

You are a very wise man. Thanks for your input.

I realize that I can only state at this point what I am willing to accept. You never know how you will react to a gun being pointed in your face until it happens. Reality paints a different picture than your imagination does. I have learned this from a combination of postings.

Thanks to all who have responded, even those who kind of took a poke at me. It was appreciated. I have been cheated on once, only by a girlfriend and I guess I base my action at that time to how I would react now. I realize that I have to re-think my position based on all the people who spoke from experience and my situation is different in being married with children than it was with just having a girlfriend.

I will state again that I mean no harm to those Plan A'ing. It does take strength to save a marriage and only one person looks to be trying to save it.
I feel empathy towards the husbands and wives trying to save their marriage with a foggy spouse.

May your strength continue.
Thanks to all once again and I apologize for acting above the law.
This could in deed one day happen to me.

Shaken,

Now that you're here, reading all of the material available, you are aware that marriage takes work, and that it requires caring for. That's one definition of the word "husband" - to care for - and you know now that you must "husband" your marriage.

That puts you ahead of the curve, compared to most people. Most people just don't realize this. They just don't realize what is required to safeguard and nurture a marriage.

No Love Busting. Meet your wife's Emotional Needs. And let her into your life, really into your life... listen to her, recognize that she is on your side. Take her advice and don't be afraid to allow her to influence you. Treat her as the valued partner that she is.

If you do all of that, your odds of winding up in a situation where you have to use Plan A are greatly reduced.

To win my wife back, I did about half of a Plan A - I stopped Love Busting and worked to meet whatever ENs she would let me meet. I didn't have to use the "stick" part of Plan A as there was no affair... but discovering she no longer loved me and working to win bac her love showed me how wrong I was to take her for granted.

You are fortunate indeed to have come here before any kind of affair cropped up in your own life. So... take all of the material and information here... and run with it.

(Mrs. W, thanks for the kind words. My wife has never posted here, but she looks in from time to time. She's not really into internet message boards... but I sometimes describe to her situations I read about here, and she usually has some good advice to pass along...)

This is so true. I was the last person that everyone thought would have an affair yet I did. Everyone is vulnerable- isn't that what Harley says?

Wow, that is a great post.

Thank you Cuth. I will be using the principles to the best of my ability.

Mark, my now ex has a long history of infidelity. She was an OW in tow marriages, I came to find out. She has cheated on at least 2 past boyfriends, bounced a load of checks, stole money from our kids school tuition fund to use in her affair(s) and was extremely abusive throughout our marriage.
So, I don't think there was much I could have done.
But, on the issue of being logical, right, strong, etc., if I had a choice, I'd prefer to adhere to those qualities while still being married. I'm all for meeting needs, but also for accountability and consequences. People do not change without them. And, someone that resorts to cheating as a coping mechanism vs communicating and working on issues, clearly needs to change.
While in this fog, seems the WS is very reluctant to own his or her responsibilityand theydo further damage to the marriage with some pretty abusive behavior.
Not much one can do if the WS will not face this stuff and get help. You have to move on and cannot wait indefinitely. It's very painful, the loss of a dream, but the alternative seems worse.
I'mall for saving something that can be saved.But, in many cases, it is beyond help due to the WS's issues.

I was just reading thru this thread and OMG Mark what u said was unbelievable. Just shows how brave BS' are. I alway thought of myself as not strong, a wimp. But I could just say dont let the door hit u on the a** on the way out. I could be a doormat, its so much easier to just let my WH have his way and come over whenever he wants to see his son. Have a pretend family while he carries on w OW. I would actually be easier than Plan B. Its so hard not to talk to him. to be his friend would be great.

I think plan A and Plan B take alot of courage. WS dont even know.

Mark and others. Great posts. Thanks OP for a great topic. I am about 8 weeks into plan A. There is NC all this time and I can see some very subtle changes here and there...keep in mind, it can take upto six months in case of WWs to get out of the fog. Still a LONG way to go. But in the scheme of things, even if takes six months, i am not too concerned. The reason, our marraige was over with from my WW's standpoint anyway the last several years so what is another six months ?

First when I read Plan A here I absolutely loved it. I was one of those BSs who chose to go with Plan A as opposed to kicking my WW out.

I took Plan A as something for me and something for my WW. In my case, improve/change my behavior, shun all LBs and start meeting her ENs. For her standpoint, absolute NC with OM. She saw me hurt like hell during this period and also change my behavior - making her even more confused...in a nice way for me !

The effort on me meeting her emotional needs is ongoing but at this point, she still has strong feelings for OM and i know it is going to take time for her to register/recognize my attempts. That's where i think patience plays such a huge role. Someone posted Dr Harley's comments about the need for not acting in your instincts. This is so true. I feel i have become much more calm and matured in handling this whole affair.

By the way, my xWW does not think i am a loser or a whimp for acting the way i am. She just did not expect it! Yes i still do a bit of crying and feel stupid but then i am a very emotional person. I dont think that makes me look like a whimp or makes me any less strong. I admit it, it is extremely hard especially knowing that my WW's love deposits right now stands at bankcruptcy. Sometimes i wonder how long i can do this..pretty much on my own...

Look at it this way, if i had kicked her out and not implemented Plan A there would be so many questions out there..it would have driven me nuts. She would never known the other side of me or the new me. At the same it gives me the opportunity to see if she is truely remorseful and NEVER again think about having an affair in her life again. And i want her to say that.

I also feel, like other posted said, that i took her and our marriage granted for too long and want us to use this opportunity (every crisis is an opportunity, right ?) to fall in love all over again. I want us both to aspire for much more than what we had...I want her back on her own...but on my terms or rather on our terms.

I have tremendous respect for all the great books out there. (Dr Harley and many others). From all indications, Plan A, if implemented properly and both BS and WS making changes in their behavior, working through this tough times and meeting each other's needs, there is high possibility that they can get back together. At some point you got to believe something and work towards it. And Plan A, if done well, is a great starting point.

You know, my WW has been BRUTAL to me since July of this year. If you want brutal, how about asking for a divorce 3 days after I got a vasectomy?

Anyways, plan A is tough, tough, tough. There are times that I am so angry with her. Then, there is an opening - we are on the fast track to divorce because the OM keeps telling her there is no other choice. A few days ago we negotiated shared custody for the kids - up until then she tried every trick in the book to keep me from seeing the kids. She thought every other weekend was too much. In fact, the OM told her if I didn't see the kids, she would get so much child support from me she wouldn't have to work.

So, we negotiated the custody with my MIL as the mediator. While the discussion was divorce talk, it was like we were a family again. Afterwards, MIL said she saw W for the first time in 5 months. Now SHE is fighting just as hard as me! My CONSISTENT actions over the last few months have made a HUGE impression on her family.

Anyways, to me, the anger is just a coping mechanism. Reality is when W calls me (and not WW fogbabble) I still melt with every word. It's those small moments that make the possible future with a good plan A worth it.

I don't think any plan can "make" you look like a wimp or not. I tend to think looking like a wimp is a function of how well one executes their chosen plan, as opposed to which plan they choose. However, choosing the "right/wrong" plan can make executing it easier/harder.

I would imagine for most BH's its not directly a fear of women, its a fear of messing up.

I think a lot men who have been married for a while gauge whether they are doing the "right" thing based on how happy their wives are. Works pretty well prior to d-day when your WW isn't cheating on you. But as part of the A, they use that against you and its difficult to retrain yourself into understanding that your WW being PO'd is not a good indicator of whether you are doing the right thing.

I think that is a key thing to understand about plan A. If one things the WW being "happy" is an indication of successfully executing plan A, they are likely being a wimp. Once the BH accepts that his WW will not be happy during plan A, I think it gets easier to avoid being a doormat.

This is one of the many insightful posts on this thread. I hope that Plan A'ing spouses are taking this in. It has definitely been an eye opener for me.

Messing up = stopping family from being destroyed ? Alteast in my case..


correct. Hence plan A is all the more powerful. You MUST change and do your part in fixing the marriage right away/unconditionally. And make your ws realise what blunders they have committed among many others such as realising that affair was their creation and that bad marriage and affair were/are two different things.


good one. I think folks here call it WS coming out of the fog ?. I have not seen it yet in my case, so i dont know except my WS is remorseful but not breaking yet. I want her to do it on her own. Isnt that when you both embark on a new phase of life ? Recommittment, vows taken all over again ?