Erich, just stick to your plan and avoid the naysayers who know nothing about Plan A. The point of Plan A is to meet your wandering spouses needs. Dr. Harley has saved one or two marriages in his 35 year career and I believe he knows what he is talking about.

Zelmo, which books have you read about Plan A?

I thought the point of plan A was to meet your spouse's most important emotional needs? For my wife, this would include financial support.

In the book "Surviving an Affair," Dr. Harley uses the example of Sue and Jon and if I remember correctly, Jon's ability to meet Sue's emotional need for financial support during the affair is one of the things that ultimately made Sue decide to return to Jon.

But meeting my wife's EN for financial support does not mean I have to give her money for just ANYTHING. I'm only giving her enough to pay for groceries and necessities, and things for our kids. Property tax is a necessity I would say.

Erich, you are exactly correct. These folks don't have the slightest idea what they are talking about and won't be able to cite anywhere that Dr Harley says to NOT MEET the EN of financial support in Plan A.

Keep in mind that Dr. Harley is a clinical psychologist with 35 years experience and he has saved one or two marriages over his career.

****edit****

Erich, you need to read up on BPD in my opinion. I would bet my [censored] that Plan A does not work with those folks.
And, when it was going on with me, I made many of the mistakes I think you are making. Good job on the exposure and keeping calm and civil. But, the subsidizing won't get you anywhere, IMO.

Zelmo, in other words, you can't produce a single Harley source that says that financial support should be EXCLUDED in Plan A because you have never even picked up a Marriage Builders book.

Can I suggest that you read the books before you commence advising others who come here to learn about Marriage Builders? Your contradictory advice is nothing more than a distraction on this man's thread.

Keep that in mind, Erich, and stick to your plan of attack. Dr. Harley very much DOES advocate meeting the EN for financial support in Plan A. What he does not advocate is financing the AFFAIR. That is a very different thing.

Zelmo, I would point out that this man is here to learn about MARRIAGE BUILDERS and giving him advice about something which you know nothing is not helpful at all. The advice you are giving CONTRADICTS Marriage Builders and it makes it hard for the rest of us to help this man when you keep arguing about something which you know nothing.

Folks - let's stick to offering advice to the poster please and avoid the distractions.

Erich, don't worry, I am not going anywhere! I am sorry for the distraction on your thread and hope we can get back to business. You are on the right track and are doing great! I suspect there was lots of lovebusting between them today.

You asked earlier if exposure causes the affairees to become closer. Yes, it does initially. Sort of like the people on sinking Titantic who gathered together to try and save the sinking ship. Pretty soon they were fighting over lifeboats before the ship sank! That is what is happening to your WW and her OM. The ship is sinking.

And if your W plans on meeting with her OM this weekend, you will need to launch a MAJOR NUKE, so I would get ready. Just don't bring it up, hopefully the OM will dump her again and he can be the bad guy.

Erichh, you understand Plan A *perfectly*. You absolutely SHOULD strive to meet your WW's top ENs. As ML said, this makes it very hard for her to demonize you in her mind. Also, when you expose, if her friends/family ask "Does he hit you? Does he run around on you? Are you hungry or wanting for anything?" she'll have to admit that you're doing your part in the M. Finally, if you have to go to Plan B, she will be left with the best possible impression of you. That will make Plan B much more effective.

Meeting her EN for Financial Support, as you already know, does NOT mean paying her credit card bill (so she can go to restaurants with OM, buy cute clothes for his benefit, buy him gifts, etc.). It also, as you know, does not mean paying for her internet service so she can chat him up. It DOES mean taking care of household and children's needs.

You have a very good understanding of Plan A.
I just wanted to reassure you that you're absolutely doing the right thing here. If you're in doubt, please call the Harleys.

WW was filling out some forms this morning in her room as I was leaving for work. The forms looked like job apps possibly... I'm in the dark right now without any key monitors on her computer.... Working on that..

How about just barging in and saying, "I need the computer and I'm going to use it now"?

As far as her running off on weekends to be with OM, get a digital voice recorder, "Have a conversation with her about her needing to stay with you and parent that day, and then when she leaves to go be with OM and sticks you with the kids, document that she is w/ OM via a GPS or PI or credit card receipts, etc. Do this several times. Then, when you file divorce, you have documented proof that your WW abandoned you and the kids for OM, and you are in a much better position for custody. I would speak with a lawyer today. It is my opinion that this woman is not marriage material, and your marriage probably cannot be saved, so it is imperative to secure as much custody as possible. Otherwise, this horrible woman will raise your children by herself and whatever loser she is with at the time. Protect your children and their futures.

Exposure is working.
The adultery is under duress. The romance is gone. Instead of lovey-dovey sexy talk they're trash talking. It's NO LONGER just a secret romance - now it's trouble and worries and stress ....
OM is secretely wondering .... "Hmmmmmmmmmm? Is she really worth all this? I mean, WOW, 3 kids by 3 different husbands and I'd have to deal with all her X husbands .... Is she worth this?"

Are you certain you want to save this M given your WW's history? Or are you just so hopelessly and desperately in love with her that you can't see any bad in her?

Maybe Plan A is about paying for your WW's A through meeting her need for FS, but it's a very thin line. Just remember that Plan A only works 15% of the time so you want to be sure that in the end you can still walk away with you self respect.

Another thing, Dr Harley himself has said that he personally would never do Plan A, never mind pay for the A.

I don't believe Steve and Jennifer say this....

Can't speak for Steve or Jennifer but Dr Harley has definitely said it. Also I counseled with Steve and he never spoke of Plan A or Plan B.

I've noticed from other threads however that Jennifer focuses very much on Plan A & B.

I would advise anyone to speak with STEVE

Dr. Harley AND STEVE AND JENNIFER tell clients to meet the WS's needs in Plan A, that includes meeting the need of financial security. The only exclusion I have heard Dr Harley mention, and this was on the radio, was not financing the affair. I can't even remember the specifics, but I believe it revolved around paying for WW's apartment. He advised against that.

Steve most certainly DOES talk about Plan A and Plan B and routinely helps clients enact them. I know of cases where he refers to Plan A as "YOUR PLAN." [Mimi comes to mind] But he very much does advocate plan A.

But when a WS is living at home, then the BS should continue to meet the FS need just like any other need.

The fact that Dr Harley might choose to divorce rather than do Plan A is irrelevant. Many ppl DO choose to do try and save their marriages and do choose to do Plan A.

p.s. I am another one who could not do Plan A. That does not mean it is not a good plan for others. It is just not a plan for ME.

I agree plan A & B are the best tools to save a M from infidelity. And if the M fails they are the best chance to save yourself. I'm just saying that its a very fine line meeting a WW's need for FS and financing the A.

Not saying Steve doesn't advocate Plan A, he just never spoke in terms of it with me.

I do think that Steve and Jennifer have different approaches though and would advise anyone to speak with Steve.

Jennifer's advice on sending love letters to WS while in Plan B seems like a complete contradiction to me.

Vladie - Dr Harley INVENTED Plan A and Plan B. I *think* he supports their use!

He doesn't say the TERMS Plan A and Plan B, but he advocates their ELEMENTS and helps clients meet needs, avoid lovebusters and expose the affair. He USES Plan A and Plan B, but doesn't use the term "PLAN A" for whatever reason. [I believe he does use the term "Plan B"]


It DEPENDS. I think they are both very good. Jennifer has been a GREAT HELP to several people here. I believe tst and SMB have had enormous success with her. She was RIGHT for their situation. FRom my, admittedly, SECOND HAND VIEW, I think Steve is effective in CRISIS situations with a reluctant spouse.


Steve has also told people to do this. It is recommended once in a VERY GREAT WHILE, in LONG Plan Bs, and is done at his direction.

Of course he supports them! I just said he wouldn't use them to save his M from infidelity. Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm 100% he did say that