Hey BF. I've been following your story/life and am on day 2 of my plan B.

I don't think any amount of empathy makes it ok, especially when kids are involved. I just can't look into the eyes of my 1 year old and 3 year old and feel anything but immense sadness for them. They idolise their daddy and explaining why he is not there to tuck them in is the hardest thing.

He's been gone on and off for the past 5 months so I've been dealing with this for a while. I did a sketchy plan A at best and I wonder each day if I have done enough too.

MB posters have reminded me that he has to become good enough for me and I have to become the best person I can be. There is a lot of time for reflection and what we could have all done differently.

BUT, until the WS comes back and is ready to recommit and do whatever it takes to get us back, we just need to focus on ourselves. I am reading Boundaries, Women Who Love Too Much, SAA, Book of Proverbs etc.

I plan to be the most amazing wife I can be - whether it is to my WH or to somebody new one day. I love my H, not my WH so much. Sometimes I catch a glimmer, but he's so caught up in fog that it doesn't matter. Mine wont even admit to an affair.

Sorry for the TJ. I just really feel for you and unfortunately I understand a lot of what you're going through.

Stay strong and stay dark and keep busy.

2M2Lose, thanks for the response. It helps me, too, to read the stories and posts from other BW's who are in plan B.

I woke this morning, as I usually do, thinking, "wow, this is real! He has an apartment and a futon and he's never coming back." And I know I don't know the outcome, but it feels so final right now. It has been easier to know everyday that I don't have to wonder if he'll call and how will our conversation go -- I just have to get through my day and work on myself.
One of the hard things about the "work on what he complained about before the affair," is my WH didn't really complain about a lot. He and I got along pretty well and he didn't communicate many needs. So, one of the things I'm doing is focusing on improving how I am with the kids. I figure that kind of improvement will certainly carryover to other relationships, but benefit me and the kids now.
How's this for a positive thought: today I will be the best me that I can be...
BF439

I guess I had an ok day. My doctor gave me a new prescription for the anxiety symptoms and the difficulty I have sleeping (thanks for the idea RHW -- I am on anti-depressants, but the nervous energy and thoughts make it hard to function). That seemed to help a little. I'm not crying as much as I was initially, but I still seem to struggle with focusing on what I have to do to live my life. Work is the worst. My brain wanders and I log on to MB to read similar stories. It makes me feel like there is hope, but then I start thinking about the differences in my situation and then the doubt starts. Here's my latest:
I believe that knowing my WH, who is a planner, that early in the affair he planned to leave me, but he wasn't sure how. So, we separated financial responsibilities (I used to do all the money and he finally he took over the bills -- started a new checking), he got the kids new cell phones so he could always reach them; he quit his job so he could continue with her without consequence. Also, he told me about the affair all on his own (which I have not seen examples of here on MB) and then did the "right" things to heal, but it did not "work." Of course, he never broke contact with her -- that was never really the goal. I think the goal was to put on a show for her, me, everyone that he did all he could, but that he just doesn't love me, so he leaves.
So, it makes me totally believe that he has been fully intent on leaving me and fully willing to give up anything I offer him, so Plan B will have no impact on him. There has got to be some fog in there, but because he has an apartment and sounds so sure, I still doubt that he would ever say to me, "I made a mistake." He really has never said that in this whole process, except that he should have told me that he wasn't in love with me sooner.
For those of you who have read my threads, what do you think? I am working on staying Super dark, but I'm doubting how long I should do this, comparing his patterns to typical WS's. I don't want to prolong this for myself and wake up one day with D papers on my doorstep.
I don't know... Dark B is good, tho...
BestFriend439

"I'm from planet awesome!" (working on believing this...)

It's inspirational

I'm going to try and pick this one up today too.

So just found out that WH left his recycling here after picking up the kids because they must not have it at his new apartment!!!! How unbelievably disrectful. Would you like to leave your trash? Or is is just that you need our house to allow you to still seem green to your left-wing-home-wrecking B'????
Man, that p!sses me off and I was already on edge tonight!!!
BF439
Later...
Wow, that was harsh for some recycling; let me clean that up some.
Ms. Impatient-can't-beleive-this-hasn't-changed-yet. He lives now 5 minutes away so he can be the "best dad he can be," which if you know about his earlier email, he could not be a good dad to the kids if he stayed with me.
Anyway, I might take a break tomorrow from MB to see if that helps me not focus to much on the crazy world of WS's....
BF

Hello BF, you posted on my thread so I popped in here to catch up on your story. So many things are similar. Your WH is different from mine in that mine is not a planner, in fact I think he put on blinkers so that he could focus on the selfish pleasure from the A and not look to the future at all but he has said lots of those hurful things your WH has said.

I just wanted to say that WHs tend to mix up the state of the M and the fact of having an A as if they are in some way connected because it makes them feel less guilty. Just like you, I know that I wasn't a perfect wife, that we didn't have a perfect M and that there are lots of things I/we could do to make it better (but that said, whose M is perfect?) However, it is never, ever OK to have an A! Even if you or I had had a nervous breakdown, refused sex to him for years and nagged him day and night then it still wouldn't have been OK for him to have an A. There are only 3 honourable ways forward if the M was bad (and I am fairly convinced it wasn't and that he is rewriting history to ensure that he doesn't have to acknowledge to himself that he has behaved like a POS)
- try to sort out the problems by talking, having MC, involving other people etc
- accept that the problems are temporary or cannot be resolved and shut up and put up with them
- explain that the M is no longer tolerable and ask for a separation or divorce.
Having an A is never an honourable response so you are not to blame in any way.

And by the way, the grass is always greener. My WH is trying to get in touch with me but I think his efforts are totally focused on the children. I'm not hearing any remorse or concern or love for me. He is also claiming that that A is over and he wants back into our M except that the man who wants to come back is so unbearable to me that I can't be with him. However that's hard to explain to the children (who he keeps telling that it's me who is keeping them away from their home and friends) and to family and friends. One of the problems is that people who don't understand MB principles don't seem to see that the WH is a totally different person from the H (almost to a Jeckyll and Hyde degree) Being happy with the children and showing them love and patience right now is not easy as we are all coping with our issues but I am trying my best.

And finally I just wanted to say that I think you did a wonderful Plan A, much better than mine, and that I think he will realise one day that he would be crazy to let an intelligent, strong, good, fun person like you go but I really hope he realises that before it's too late.

thank you, tully, its so nice to have some words of encouragement from another mom whose WH has apparently gone off the deep end.
What I have really appreciated from your posts is how WH has to meet your conditions for you to be interested in recovering the M, rather than just going back because he wants you there (without change on his part). I also took a lot of comfort in that he doesn't seem to show much remorse, like my WH. That has to be part of the fog! My WH used to be the one to end fights first -- he couldn't stand for us to be in a fight and now he seems to not care at all what he'd done to me and the kids.
That is so screwed up -- it can not be part of rational decision making!!
I hope things are beautiful there in Ireland and I hope that you get some joy from being home during this difficult time.
Keep posting and hang in there!

BF439

Ok, this is why we stay dark!! All I did was check some past on-line credit card statements. Statements that used to come by paper, but by the time WH had them all set up electronically, I did not see them anymore, and there they are. Receipts for local restaurants -- too much for one person for lunch (so he treated her) and just enough for dinner (so they went out for dinner).
Some of them were my favorite places.
Are all WH such pigs or are they just so umimaginative that they take their girlfriends to the same places their wives like? Let alone the rage I feel about him spending any of our money on her!
But, now I'm in Plan B, so I can't even share this with him -- not that he would get it any way. So, I post it here...
I'm going to go get in cozy jammies and snuggle my kids and forget about this for the night!
On another note: Do you think its too early to put up a live tree? We really want to get one up this weekend, but I'm afraid it won't make it. Opinions?
BF439

Ok, made it through another day. Two weeks, PB this Tuesday. Going dark gives some hope, but more than anything it gives us some control and sense of perspective about this whole situation.
Plan B is hard, but once we go there, there is some peace for ourselves...
Hang in there everyone... (thinking about you all tonight, tully, idey58, 2M2L, and, of course, T2L!!!)
BF439

BF,

Ouch. I know that hurt.

I found the same thing...charges for dinner, drinks, flowers, jewelry, sex shops... I wasn't in Plan B at the time, in fact, much of it was before D-Day. Each time I confronted, he lied. Your H is still an active wayward, so confronting him now, in Plan B, wouldn't do you any good, either.

So, yes, while wayward, they are unimaginative, hurtful pigs who squander the family fortune on their wayward pleasures. That's why we must at some point shift our efforts to protecting ourselves when Plan A doesn't work.

Have you protected yourself and the kids financially? Shifted half of your assets to an account in your name? That would, at least, protect some of it. It's what my lawyer advised me to do right after D-Day, and I did it.

((((bf))))

Right Here Waiting

Oh, about the live tree. Depends on where you live. When we lived in the North, the trees were fresher and lasted longer. When we lived in the Southern states, they were already half dead by the time they made it to the sales lots.

Good to hear from you, RHW! I do have a separate account, but I haven't really done anything differently re: finances. I track our accounts on-line, but WH is still doing the bills, and he picked up part-time work to pay for his apartment. Any money he's spent has been pretty minimal, but it hurts regardless.

This may become more of an issue if he finds he can't afford the apartment as he thinks he can. We absolutely cannot afford two households without him working more.

During Plan A, I actually offered to find extra work, too, since he was so worried about finances, but the reality is that there is no way I could do that! I already work full-time, take the majority of the childcare and have the whole house to take care of. He only has two of the kids two nights a week and Saturday. When would I be able to work??

This has got to be part of his wayward fog -- does he really think he's helping by taking 2 of 3 kids twice a week?
Even if he does not want to come back, will he ever come out of this selfish fog, because it is really tiring to deal with such a selfish person! Not once since this whole thing started has he asked what do I want; what do the kids want? Its all been what does he want and what does he believe is best for everyone.

Anyway, DD12 and I are going to go get the tree today (I live in the North and I can get a really fresh one) and then shop for her to get some new clothes, so we are looking forward to our day! I find I cope pretty well by staying focused on building my life without him. Maybe he'll get healthy, but if not, I don't want him around anyway. Is that a pretty good Plan B attitude? I hope so!
Wow, long post.....
BF439

Yes. "Fake it 'til you make it!"

It be's true!

Charlotte

Hello, bf,

I was referring to joint savings accounts, CD's etc. That's what I sought to protect. And I DID. First, I moved half the amounts, a few weeks after D-Day, when I realized confronting him was NOT going to end the A. Moved the rest a few months later when things were even worse between us and I was fairly sure we'd end up D'd. By then, I was out of a job and not likely to find another that good in my field. I was also OLD enough to be concerned for my financial future and figured if he wasn't even willing to protect our M vows, how much could I trust him with anything else?

As long as your WH is still taking care of the needs you and the kids have, I can see why you're not concerned. But be aware, that could change over time, especially if money gets tight, and the OW might have something to do with that...

As for your question, will he ever come out of the selfish fog? Not till he gets away entirely from OW, and probably for a while afterwards. Nobody can tell you when that will happen, but your being in Plan B can only help move that time along. Patience. And living your life, which it sounds like you're doing.

Have a good time trimming the tree with the kids.

Blessings,

Right Here Waiting

Update:
WH still using the IM dutifully, since from his report, he doesn't want me at all anyway, so its no biggie. Anyway, he was going to take my son's old dresser and get him a new one, but now he'd like to have it and have me give DS11 his dresser from our bedroom set. That just pissed me off. I just responded with, when he gets a replacement dresser, he can have DS11's old one.
None of us are going to go without our current stuff because of his decision to leave. I don't know if I can do that, but he left the marital home and until the court says otherwise, the marital stuff stays here.
He also wants the kids again tomorrow night and, quit frankly, I'm torn about that too. I really don't want him to have them at all and if he is going to take them for weekend visits, I don't know why he can't take them two nights in a row!
It pisses me off because I feel like he's trying to be the best single dad around and in the meantime, there is this complete denial that his selfishness is causing all this pain!! Mine and the kids and its like well I'm with the kids so its ok (that's his mom wanting him to be with the kids) and I feel like he will never come to the realization of what he's lost. Does that make sense??
I don't know how I feel, but I am tired of all this; angry that he has done this; I miss my kids and I don't want them gone at all. Can I do that? Can I just say no to overnights?
Not feeling great or rational -- please help!
BF439

I would say no to anything you don't want right now. Make him fight for every little scrap! Part of PB is protecting you, part is showing him what misery he's got to look forward to for being a selfish jerk. Let him fight for visitation. And I'm really proud of you for not giving him the dresser! Women are so conditioned to be nice and not confrontational, so that's a very good step!

Thanks, Catperson! He did not try to get the dresser, so I guess he got the message.

I am trying to focus on turning the tables in my head. Instead of lamenting that my WH has done this to me, I say, wow, he doesn't deserve me! I just have to hang on to those moments, because they are not the norm right now...

Here's another thought: I really struggle with the stink of rejection I feel like I carry, because of his fog-babble that says, essentially, that he had an affair because he was not in love with me (which he "knew" but did not realize until the affair "jarred him from complacency,") but this came to me with such peaceful clarity today. People have an affair, not because there is something wrong with their marriage or because they are not "in love" with their spouse, but because there is something wrong with them.
There are so many limitless choices for a spouse that is not "in love" or who is not having EN met, that an affair is clearly one of the most selfish choices a person can make and absolutely a reflection of their character.
I know some of this if obvious to veterans, but for those of us still very raw, its almost like some of the my own fog is slowly lifting, for me to even think these thoughts...
I did not cause this; it is not my fault that my husband decided to sleep with another woman and lie for months on end; and it is not my fault that he has left me. I really got no chance to save my marriage so I guess I can keep working on just saving my sanity!
BTW -- my tree looks beautiful, as do all my Christmas decorations!
BF439

Hey, you're ahead of me! We did get our outside lights done. Always tomorrow, lol...

But you are so right. Turn that stinkin' thinkin' off!

You're EXACTLY right! His affair has NOTHING to do with you. You are a beautiful, desirable woman and a wonderful mother who has a lot going for her. This was a biggie for me during my husband's affair... the perceived rejection. What I know NOW is that it wasn't about me. It was something broken in him. He even admits that now.

What he SAYS while he's in an affair is meaningless and is like a baby gibbering. What is the biggest characteristic of a baby? They want what they want when they want it and never think about anyone else.

Hang in there and when those despairing thoughts of what he's said and done come into your mind, picture a big red STOP sign or picture a toddler speaking those hateful words. You're doing great.

It helps so much to have you guys respond to my posts!! Thank you! Sometimes I feel like I'm just posting all the self-pity and negative thoughts here, because I feel like I have to be strong for kids and family (don't want to run down WH -- what if he comes out of fog and wants to recover M and I've spewed all my negative crap to everyone we know?? My mom won't be able to move on, that's for sure!)

Anyway, I appreciate the on-going reinforcement that I am dealing with the aftermath of an affair, whatever that will eventually mean. A lot of times I feel like the people in my day to day, who have no experience with affairs, just see a marriage gone south (even though they don't get that since he and I got along so well... Hmmmm... ;))

But, when I read posts here and post my thoughts I get so much support. Thank you, thank you all.

I'm 100times stronger than I was even a month ago!
to all, an especially princessmeggy, whose story was one of the first ones I read and realized I was not unique and I was not alone and there is hope.
Take care all!
Tomorrow I think we'll go to the zoo; see the "wildlights" and try to get that awesome Christmas picture of the kids!
signing off from planet awesome,
BF439

Here is a GREAT post(below) from Pepperband, its simply MARVELOUS!.....

Looking back ... I can see I worked myself through a very awkward "plan A" .... although I never heard of plan A until years into recovery and I started poking around this site. Looking back ... I can see my efforts to become differentiated ... although I did not read Schnarch's "Passionate Marriage " until years into recovery.
Plan A is very much complementary to Schnarch's ideas of differentiation. Developing a positive identity within the context of a marriage struggling to overcome infidelity. Developing a strong sense of self-worth that is valid both within and outside the boundaries of the marriage.

I can NOW see plan A as a path to greater self worth and NOT necessarily as a plan to "win back" the heart and mind of the infidel ... although that might happen. It is a plan to differentiate myself and identify myself as a worthy person apart from the circumstances of the marriage relationship. Plan A'ers are not like doormats to wipe your feet upon and to mis-use .... more like a *welcome home* sign... if both persons choose to re-inter the marriage! Plan A says : "I can hold onto my better self under the worst of circumstances".

Schnarch says: "We develop a contingent identity based on a 'self-in-relationship'. Because our identity depends on the relationship, we may demand that our partner doesn't change so that our identity won't either."

Then ... comes the grenade of infidelity tossed into the marriage and the entire fusion of identities is blown apart! The aftermath of the grenade then boils down to this question ....

WHO THE HECK AM I ... AND ... WHO THE HECK ARE YOU?

And, asking this question to the *fogged-in* infidel is pointless. They got INTO the affair because they were lost to themselves, and went searching for a new self .... and, INSTEAD of differentiating themselves ... they fused identity to yet another relationship ... actually moving away from a healthy differentiated view of their self-worth ----> I am wonderful because my affair partner thinks so.

Plan A says and demonstrates to OURSELVES: I am not some weak pathetic person deserving to be abandoned or cheated. I am demonstrating decent and loving behaviour. I am worthy of love and devotion. ... If the infidel notices .... double bonus points. If not, I become better differentiated along the way ... and I can see my strengths despite terrible and hurtful circumstances.

Once I become more fully differentiated and have stable and accurate self-worth (after the grenade) ... I am then in the position to identify
healthy choices. I can honestly say that I will be a sensational woman within this marriage... or after this marriage terminates.

I think I finally understand what I went through. I understand that I am the better woman for it. I understand my spouse is the better man for it.

That is a powerful message to myself. The anxiety that floods the betrayed spouse is the perceived loss of identity . Self worth and a differentiated identity is the harvest of plan A .