I wish I had found this site a month and a half ago. I'm a 37 year old man separated from my 33 year old wife and we have on Stepson (10) and a son (4). My wife told me one night late October that she had fallen out of love with me and we should separate, she needed space etc. After 2 days I panicked and bugged her like crazy, eventually going to another state for a week to stay with my parents. I freaked out while there and flew back unexpectantly to try and fix our marriage. My first question to her was are you having an affair, which I didn't expect a yes to, but I got one. Everything went downhill from there. I said we would divorce, took her phone and found out who the guy was. After a couple of days I told her I couldn't live with her in the house and I needed her to move out as soon as possible. Within a day she found an apartment and moved in within a couple of days. After a couple more days, I called her and said I wanted to slow down, stop making decisions and could we just consider this a separation. The bad thing is we both work at the same place and so does the OM. In the last month and a half the affair has been exposed, Not by me but by rumor, etc and I have no idea if they are still seeing each other. I had initially agreed that we would split time with our children alternating every 3 days. Last Friday I told my stepson that I loved him very much, but he could no longer stay living with me because of the situation between his mother and I. I've been with him since he was 4 and it hurts bad. I then emailed this to his mother indicating it would be the last day he stayed with me. I think she freaked at that and finally told me she wanted a divorce and there was no interest in rekindling our marriage. I still get my 4 yr old son every 3 days now and hopefully with mediation will keep him. I really want our marriage to work, but at this point, supposedly she has no interest at all in saving our marriage, even though she knows I want to change and make it work desperately. Supposedly she will file the paperwork, I just don't know when and we never talk about anything except things related to the kids. I feel devastated, am not sleeping well at all, and can't bear to think of life going on without her. Is there any saving this? I've acted very desparate at times with emails mostly, finally having told her she was right in our last email and that I will always love her and respect her. I had a lot of problems with her over the last several years and said terrible things about our son that I wish I could take back. I just don't know what to do, or if things are hopeless. They seem that way.

I forgot to mention we were married for 5 yrs. She was married twice before in abusive relationships. I was recently diagnosed with depression and she says now that I've started getting help she felt comfortable leaving and wanted to run for a long time now.

"She was married twice before in abusive relationships."

Yes I believe that. And, if you go back and talk with WW's ex's you will find she was the one that was abusive.

She was never abusive to me. The first marriage her husband basically flaunted the fact that he cheated on her on a regular basis. The second husband was outrageously controlling and emotionally abusive. I know how to get in contact with her last husband, but I have no idea about the first. What would I ask him? He still talks to her because he gets visitation occasionally like Christmas, etc, with their son.

"She was never abusive to me"

Being a WW is not abusive?

"The first marriage her husband basically flaunted..."

How do you know this? From a lying cheating WW? Or from H1?

"The second husband was outrageously controlling..."

How do you know this? From a lying cheating WW? Or from H2?

"I know how to get in contact with her last husband, but I have no idea about the first."

Why not ask H2 if he has contact info on H1?

What would I ask him?

Ask both of them for the truth why their marriages with here failed. You'll get their side of the story. To compare with your WW's version. Some where you will find the truth.

An important question is to find out if WW dated H2 while still married to H1. Ask both. Then compare their answers.

I guess I'll try that. Hopefully H2 will be open to talking. I've got his number.

And yes...All that information is from WW.

I would like to suggest that, if you want her back (though I'm not quite sure why, as she is most likely a serial cheater given her messed up background), you need to run your OWN exposure. Exposure by anyone else but you is pointless and ineffective (if it's even true; I doubt it, coming from her). You call up her parents, your parents, his wife, his parents (yes, even old parents), everyone's friends, and you send a certified exposure letter to the CEO of HR and cc a couple other important people there (so no one can bury the issue) about it and asking them what they intend to do about it.

She will be furious, but she is already leaving you anyway. At least this way, you have a chance of getting her out of the fog and wanting to come home.

Gather your list of people and numbers, write your letter and send it, then call all the people - today. Otherwise, you are wasting your time here.

I really don't believe she is a serial cheater, but I didn't believe she would cheat anyway so who knows. Either way it doesn't matter, I want her back because I love her..Period. I realize where I messed up and want to fix myself and make good decisions going forward. She tried to fix our marriage for a long time and I ignored it and withdrew.

As far as exposure, it's already known at our work. We work at the same place, and it's exposed by various things. Me..rumors,etc. Her boss asked her and the guy (both work on the same team) twice if they were having an affair and they both lied and said no each time. The company policy is that there is no official policy on people dating each other, but since they were on the same team it created a conflict of interest. Once they were confronted, had they said yes, they would have just split them up to different areas and no harm done. But now, managers are on the look out and if they find anything they will fire one if not both of them. They have already split them up to different offices. I have no proof of anything anyway, but I did approach our division manager and told him I knew of the affair. They basically can't do anything without proof, but the word is out at work, and she's told her mother and sister, and two close friends know about it.

You're being chicken. Go back and read the list of people you're supposed to expose to. Do you believe MB will work, or not? If you do, then you have to follow the formula to get any results.

Cheaters lie. If she told you she told her mother, assume she is lying. Talk to her mother and sister yourself. They need to hear your perspective, so they will put pressure on her to go NC with OM and restore her marriage. You need to tell all the people on the list, so that their affair starts to look as slimy as it is.

I don't care about her boss. I care about Human Resources! Bosses and division managers will cover up affairs so that their work gets done - they look out for themselves, and don't want to lose an employee! HR will STOP the affair so they don't get sued or penalized by the government. Haven't you guys ever had to take sexual harassment training?

Make the list and call today.

I'm not sure which part your talking about. Like I said I'm new to the sight and I'm not sure where everything is. What list of people should I expose to. Where on the site is the best advice for where I'm at in my situation. I kept seeing Plan A and Plan B stuff, but that sounded like it was for people that weren't separated. Ahh..I'm so confused.

There should be a button at the bottom somewhere to contact the Moderators. Ask them to move your thread over into the Infidelity section. You'll get a lot of advice from experts over there on what to do. Look at the "Most Popular Links" to the right, read the ones on affairs. Read the FAQ. Look for info on a step-by-step method to stop the affair and (maybe) get your spouse back. Not guaranteed, but better than what you're doing. The author of this site has been counseling and compiling data on affairs for decades, and he put what works into this site.

The list is anyone she knows who will put pressure on her to stop the affair, and anyone HE knows, such as a wife! Parents, siblings, cousins, aunts, uncles, friends, coworkers...anyone whose respect she wants to keep. The point is to make the affair public, so that it no longer is the sexy, loving, "perfect" thing they think it is, but rather the slimy, sneaky, cheating POS it really is.

And don't listen to anything she says right now. She is not her normal self - she's an addict.

Update.. I have asked for this to be moved to the infidelity forum and I spoke with the last ex-husband on the phone for over an hour today. Apparently she did cheat on him too, and now that I think about it, technically when we met they weren't divorced so she was cheating on him with me. She has had a lot of issues and each marriage lasted right around 5 years. There have been issues with drugs in the past, I don't know if there are now, but I can say she's lost an awful lot of weight over the last couple of months. Don't know of any way to confirm these things, but it has made me think about hiring a Private Investigator. I need to protect my kid from her if there are drugs involved (again I don't know, but I need to find out). I also spoke to several people in HR, and there is basically nothing they will do (I work for local govt.) since they have already been separated at work and no noticable effects on their work is being noticed. If I could get proof from a P.I. that the affair is still going on, I'm pretty sure I could get my division manager to take action. Also, for the record, the WW didn't tell me her mom knew about the affair, the mom of the WW told me she knew. At this point I'm not sure if any exposure tactics I can use would do any good. I have denied any limited attempts at exposure I made before to my WW in the past few weeks as well telling her it was in my best interest to protect her so my kids can eat when they are with her. My son is 4, so telling him wouldn't do much, he wouldn't understand. I guess I'm not sure what plan I should be following right now, because so much has happened. Again, like I said she said she wants a divorce and I told her she would have to file. As far as I know she's working on the papers right now, or she will keep putting it off. I know not to believe anything she says no and that she is not her normal self. I just know in my heart I want to do everything I possibly can within my power to make it through this and have a chance for a recovered, healthy marriage somewhere down the road and nothing is going to convince me otherwise right now. But I can't seem to figure out a solid plan to stick too. I think if she fills out the papers and gives them to me, I'll take them and never really fill them out or give them back to her. If she wants to schedule a visit to mediation, I'll refuse. If she decides to get an attorney, then I will get one too. That's all I have right now for a plan.

WR,

Buddy, this is sad, disgusting, and pathetic. I am sorry you are going through so much pain right now but, I am afraid you have brought much of it on yourself by making some very poor past decisions.

You married a drug user & serial cheater and you cheated WITH her while she was cheating ON Husband #2 (I'll wager you $100,000 that she also cheated on H#1 no matter what excuses she makes). I find your claim "now that I think about it, technically when we met they weren't divorced so she was cheating on him with me" to be really self-serving and ludicrous. You mean you didn't know she was still legally married when you two started gettting involved??? I have to call "BS" on you there...you did know, didn't you?? At the very least, you knew before you M her!

Now, she is cheating on H#3 (you). Some marriages shouldn't be saved because they never should have been entered into in the first place. Like all affair-marriages, yours fits into that category. Your W has no idea or what real love and commitment are. Marriage is nothing but a 5-year social arrangement to her. This is tough love here, WR, but frankly you should end this relationship right now and take away some very serious and valueable lessons.

Don't cheat on anyone or with anyone and...
Don't ever marry someone who would cheat to be with you!

SDCWman,

Thanks for the reply, but I need to clarify a couple of things. I just found out they weren't divorced, I didn't know at the time they were still married. According to the ex, he was waiting for the papers and ready for the divorce, she just left that part out. I never would have gotten involved had I known they weren't divorced. He was in Minnesota and we were in Florida and I guess they handled all of the paperwork and filing by mail. Second, the drug thing is just a suspicion. At a good point in our marriage she confessed experimenting years ago, but quit. I never once suspected it during our marriage at any time, I just think it may be a new possibility because of the sudden weight loss, and I'm honestly not sure about that part. Some of that guess may have been influenced by my discussion with her 2nd husband too, who referenced the drugs being used about the time she had already confessed to me. Let me be very clear, during our time together married she has been the consumate loving mother and a loving wife as well whom I made the very unfortunate mistake of ignoring, being emotionally hurtful to and many other mistakes that she just got tired of taking. I completely understand my own many faults that allowed our marriage to get to this point and she was a wonderful woman. Right now, she is just in the fog thing and I need to figure out the best possible tactics to use since the Plan A, Plan B thing does not seem to fit our situation perfectly. Regardless of her past mistakes, there is a good, loving wife in there and the same for me too. If it is recoverable, I want to do it.

moving to GQ11 at request of thread starter.

WR,

You love this woman and want to restore your M--those are noble sentiments. I understand.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt in believing that you were truly "in the dark" regarding her marital status when you first met and later developed your R (as implausible as it sounds). I'll also presume that the "drug thing" is not an issue as well. However, even with that, consider the following:

Your W has been M 3 times already
Her previous 2 M's only lasted ~ 5 yrs. each
She cheated on AT LEAST 1 of her 2 prior H's
She lied to you about cheating with you on her 2nd H
She therefore entered into your R & M under DECEIT
[Note: it is a pretty safe bet that that is not the only lie she has told you about her past marriages/husbands]
Now, like clockwork, she is lying and cheating on you in her 3rd M after ~ 5 yrs.

You are free to do whatever you see fit. If you want to try and salvage this, then read up on Plans A & B and implement them. Expect a difficult road ahead and I wish you the best of luck.

I am a big advocate of MARRIAGE, believe me. But, you may want to consider just how much effort you are willing to put into this. There are a lot of red flags here which make a solid recovery very, very difficult. Sorry, but your W is a serial marry-er, liar, and adulterer who cannot seem to sustain a true commitment beyond 5 years. You may want to re-evaluate if she is truly the person you thought (and hoped) she was or if you were just seeing things through rose-colored glasses. Sadly, some people make wonderful lovers but very poor partners.

Well, if that is the case, I will have to accept it when we divorce, but for now, I'm following my heart. If I stand by and do nothing I will always wonder if I did everything I could to salvage our marriage and keep our family together. I've read up on plans A and B, but I'm not sure which plan I should be implementing. Here is a summary of the sequence of events so far and I've screwed up a lot of the steps I should have done in the beginning, especially with the exposure..etc. Everyone at work and much of her family knows. About the only people that don't know are my sons (S10 and S4).

1. October: Told me she no longer was in love with me and needed to separate.
2. After 2 days, I panicked and tried to beg, etc.
3. She left the house for a friends and suggested I go to my parents out of state to give her space.
4. I flew out.
5. Decided to fly back and confront her. WS admitted affair, but didn't stop it.
6. More begging on my part.
7. I made her move out.
8. WS has apartment, moved out. More begging/pushing on my part for better part of month and a half.
9. Realized step-son shouldn't be staying with me. Made her take him full-time. Still get son every 3 days
10. WS finally admitted she wanted a divorce and it wasn't a separation. Still seeing OM.
11. I told her fine, she was right, etc.
12. Haven't talked about anything since except kids related since we swap them every 3 days.
13. Found this site and began reading.

Having done all of that, I'm not sure what plan to follow. I've been working on myself like crazy. I quit smoking for over a month now, quit drinking excessive amounts of Mountain Dew that was killing me, working out, running, etc. Bought nicer clothes to be more presentable and I've been taking good care of both boys and going to counseling. All of these were complaints of hers, among other emotional things. Now, I realize when she told me she wanted a divorce and didn't want me holding on to false hope, that could be the fog talking and she may not actually follow up on it, but then again she may. I can't seem to stop the affair, so expert advice would be very much appreciated. Also, I appreciate that some of you may feel like I should move on and forget the serial cheater...etc, but I'm just trying to fix the marriage and if I'm wrong for doing so, I'm wrong. I just believe the oath I took is serious and we had a loving relationship in the past that deserves to be fought for. Everyone makes mistakes and if trying to fix this marriage is a mistake, it is one I can live with.

WR,

Your desire to restore your M and improve yourself (which you have to do FOR YOU irregardless of whether you save your M or not) is truly commendable. I do not question your motivation or honorable intentions, even though I strongly suspect that your M is sadly not worth salvaging in the long run. If you still want to try, listen up...

Realize that every BS makes mistakes and messes up, especially if they haven't found MB yet and don't implement the plan properly. I did too--BIG TIME--so don't be too hard on yourself here.

PLAN A
Plan A involves presenting an attractive package for the WS to come back to while doing everything possible to put pressure on them to end the A. The elements are:
1. Avoiding love-busters (LB) and better meeting emotional needs (EN) that were missed before
2. Improving yourself to become a better man
3. Exposing the A, without warning or threats, to EVERYONE that possibly could have influence (family, friends, work, church, school, OM's social/family/work circle, etc.) She will be angry and threaten you--ignore it completely...all bluster
4. Negotiating repectfully, lovingly, but FIRMLY to end the A. Your W must know in no uncertain terms that you will not accept/allow her to "fence-sit" or "cake-eat". Do NOT support her financially, socially, or emotionally with regard to A. Consider a LSA if possible. Protect your kids from the OM. Do not be a jerk but also do not be a whiny doormat--woman do not respect men who do not stand up to them.
[Consider the first 2 to be the "carrot" of her seeing you in a new light and the second 2 to be the "stick" of pressure on her to end the A]

Dr. Harley can advise you on how long to do this but he generally advises BHs to Plan A for ~ 6 months. Pick a date in your mind (don't tell her) and stick to it. If she hasn't ended the A COMPLETELY with NC by then, go to Plan B...

PLAN B
Send her a handwritten Plan B letter via mail (examples available here) in which you state your desire to work on your M after and ONLY after the A ends. Tell her you can and will have NC with her until she ends it and re-committs to the marriage. Then go very dark...probably for a long time.


Everything you wrote that she said is run-of-the-mill FOG. Place no stock in it and all the fog-talk that ensues afterward. You cannot end the A; only she and/or OM can...all you can do is apply subtle pressure.

Well, I just told my stepson (10) about the affair when we were together this evening before my WS picked him up. She just called about a half hour later extremely PO'd. "If there was any chance before, there isn't any now, etc.". I explained I couldn't lie for her, etc. Man that was hard, but he was about the only person who didn't know already and it is important that he know i didn't abandon him and marriage vows are important. This sure doesn't feel like it was the right thing to do at all, even though I know the exposure thing. She said I just destroyed her relationship with her son, which of course is not going to happen, but she believes that right now. Man that was hard to hear the anger in her voice. She actually used the "F" word, which I've never heard her do before.