I am a HUGE fan of interventions. I believe it is one of the only times in a person's life that everyone is totally honest with you. And who doesn't need that? Someone who has made a mistake - their only salvation is to learn total humility and accept their own faults. What better way to get there, than to face your entire family telling you they will be there for you if you would only just own up to your mistakes?

ETA: After reading the thoughts on the other thread you started, I want to add that, when I envision an intervention, it is done in a loving manner, not a controversial one. As in 'honey, we are worried for you. We want you to be happy but we've had experience with this - ask Aunt Phyllis about her affair - and from what we can see, it only leads to you being alone and miserable and wondering why you threw away your marriage for a guy who won't stay with you. Can we talk about what's going on with you?'

Something like that. You don't want her to feel attacked, you want her to feel loved.

Good job Scared1 with the exposing! Now do you see how she is sending out different messages! I haven't read your new thread on intervention yet, but I agree with Catperson's response.

You still need to confront the gym people. Don't worry about it so much. Just do it.

Do I do it while she and OM are at the gym, or after they've left? If you think she'll be mad about exposing to family members, this one will be huge. Besides, I wouldn't be surprised if they all already know.

I'm still trying to figure out how to expose to OM's boss and OM's daughter. I don't know how to reach them.

The folks at the gym probably know your WW and OM are "a couple". They probably DON'T know that WW is married to a man who is trying to end the affair, become a better husband, and recover the marriage.

If you blow this wide open in public (at the gym) I'd be surprised if your WW ever thought an A might be a good idea again (once she's out of the fog, of course).

Personally I'd expose right after they leave... make a big sign or something and give it a good 24 hours of visibility before they know it's there. Put your wife's pic on it (and pic of OM if you have one) because folks might know their faces but not their names.

OR... you might go to the gym and make an announcement while WW and OM are there. Of course, you'll need to make the announcement and then politely leave, lest you get hauled away by the police for disturbing the peace.

You know OM's name and where he lives, right? Call his home phone when you know he's at the gym - maybe his DD will answer. You can also look at intelius and for about $50 you can get info such as who he's lived with recently. He may be married.

Expose while they are not there. You do not want to get into any kind of ugly public confrontation. Even if you are a peaceful sort of guy, you don't know what he's like. The best way to tell them is calmly, and make sure you let them know that you are really interested in recovering your marriage, that you still love her. Ask for advise (whether you want it or not) - people LOVE to give advise and will more likely empathize with your situation and, ultimately, take your side.

I mentioned wayward anger on your other thread. Note - it is actually a GOOD sign when she's angry about exposure. It means you hit the right spot. Though she will blame you - she may even say things like "I was considering reconcilliation but now you've ruined it!" What she is really angry about is that you have actually done something that makes it more difficult for her to continue her affair. You have made a hit on the battleship! Remember that when she goes off on you - anger = success at this stage! It will give you strength.

That's pretty bold and I don't know if I could do it. Besides, if I put up a sign, someone will quickly take it down. This is one that I'm finding very hard to do or to handle. I have sent a text to one of the folks at the gym asking him to give me a call. It's a start.


I know the guy's name (can be spelled more than one way) and my WW said the town he lives in, but I cannot obtain a listing for him. All I have is a cell phone number, and when I do a reverse search, it doesn't give me any info. I want to find his DD and expose to her. Maybe get a hold of a yearbook and look for the name? I know a friend / client who has a son in that school district, but I don't think I want to tell him about my situation. What is intelius? I'm not familiar with it, and if I'm not sure of the spelling, it may be worthless.

Well, I got a little more info about OM. Yes, he is divorced and lives in an apartment, but I cannot get the address or home number .... yet. He just dumped his girlfriend a month or so ago - probably for my WW. I did find out where he works - he's an oil burner service guy. I called the company and spoke with his boss and told him about the A. He said there's nothing he can do about what OM does in his personal life, but I made sure to mention that my WW frequently visits and meets with him in afternoons (with one specific date & time), as well as text messaging back and forth all day - during company time. They have a GPS on each vehicle, so they know where everyone is at all the time. He will look into it and figure out how to speak to OM about it. My only concern at this time is my WW finding out that I'm watching cell phone records for texts and phone calls. This just made me feel good, but my heart is still pounding. I'd love to see him get fired, but that probably won't happen.

I visited the gym after my WW left and had the chance to speak with 3 folks - 2 of which I knew, and the 3rd who is a friend of the OM. Yes, they have recently become aware of them as being a "couple" and none of them approve. In fact, they have said so to WW and OM on separate occasions and just don't talk about it anymore because it makes them feel uncomfortable.

I just received the SAA book and have almost finished it. The Jon & Sue scenario seems to match mine very well, except that my WW has not expressed any desire to leave the OM. In fact, she's even said if her relationship with OM doesn't work out, she still wants a D. I think that may be beacuse of my outbursts.

Things have cooled down a bit after I apologized for my outbursts, etc. We seem to be more civil and are talking, but I can tell you that WW is NOT receptive to my satisfying ENs. She simply said she does NOT want me to do nice things.

Back to the SAA book. Would it be a good or bad idea to suggest that WW read certain parts of the book - most notably chapters 1, 2, and 8. They basically demonstrate that she is in exactly the same situatiuon, but also shows hope for recovery of our marriage on the back end. Anybody's thoughts? As an alternative, how about a letter to her essentially describing my understanding of not providing her emotional needs and my dedication to do so in the future?

Great work again on exposure!

I'm not the right person to answer your question about letting her read SAA. On the one hand, people have been advised not to try and educate their WS's, which she might perceive this as. On the other hand, it could help her to see that you still want your marriage. Hopefully a vet will have the answer.

Hi scared, I wouldn't suggest asking her to read anything. You can leave the book laying around, though, and hope she picks it up.

The most critical opportunities I see here would be:

1. STOP LOVEBUSTING and start working on attracting your W back

2. expose to the OM's parents

Lovebusting helps the OM, so everytime you feel an urge to lovebust her, remember that you are making the OM look good. If you stop it, you will cause her to have second thoughts about the affair. And I do not mean stop standing up against the affair.

The crap she is spewing about it not being the affair and she would have left anyway is classic fogbabble designed to say: I am not leaving because of my affair. BULLCRAP. You should be telling everyone that she is leaving EXACTLY because of that.

She has been telling people the typical fogbabble:

"Jon and I just fell out of love and have decided to get divorced. I have met a new man!" <squeek!>

when the real truth is:

"I met a man at the gym and am having a sleazy adulterous affair.."

She has been busy spreading around the former, and it is your job to spread the truth. Tell them: my wife is having an affair. there were no plans to get a divorce until she began her affair. Point out to them that the answer to a bad marriage is to work to turn it around, not to have an affair!

About your MIL, tell her for me that 95% of affairs crumble within 2 years. Of the small percentage that make it to marriage, there is an 80% divorce rate. Your marriage has a 50% chance of making it, though. TELL HER THIS. And tell her the answer to a bad marriage is TO TURN IT AROUND, not to destroy the marriage and her grandchildrens family. Tell her that on MB many marriages are saved if they follow this program and ASK FOR HER HELP IN SAVING YOUR MARRIAGE AND YOUR CHILDREN'S FAMILY. ASK FOR HER ADVICE in acheiving this.

There is no future with the OM because he will be eternally hated by your children for breaking up their family. I would be

I think she can be a great help if she understands that you have a PLAN to save this marriage and understands that your wife is reacting 100% to her addiction to the OM. If he were not here, she would not be leaving. She is about as rational as a falling down drunk.

Having spent alot of time reading the forums and reading through the SAA book, it's all coming alot clearer to me. During the course of our M, I was simply guilty of complacency and knew nothing of Dr. Harley's concepts regarding the Love Bank, Love Busters, and emotional needs. And her being "unhappy for many years" is probably due to the fact the she is experiencing that elation in the midst of her A, feelings that she hasn't felt for a while. I'm also really beginning to see the similarity between the A and a drug addiction.



The WW has brain washed my MIL into thinking there's absolutely no shot at reconciliation, and the MIL (who loves me very much) thinks that I shouldn't hold out hope .... at least for a long time. However, she does understand alot of this because I have discussed alot of this with her. I haven't spoke to her in several days (I used to call her daily), so I was planning to call her today. In fact, part of my conversation was to tell her that I'm starting to feel sorry for her daughter. All of her friends, family, and loved ones know and none of them approve of it, including all the folks from the gym (all but one, of course). In fact, the folks at the gym have noticed that she has changed alot lately, is not talkative, and they seem to avoid her a little and feel awkward talking to her. I have a feeling that some sort of reality will be setting in soon and she runs the risk of becoming depressed.

Tonight will be interesting. She will be at her family's house (it's an annual thing, but I've been uninvited since the exposure last week to those family members). It will be very awkward for her and I wonder if anybody will say anything. WW has already told me not to speak with them anymore, and that if her one cousin (the family member who is in counselling, was a BW, and suggested an intervention) brings it up again, she will "disown" her. At this point, it seems that the only support she's getting are from those divorced "friends", and I wonder how good of friends they really are at this point.

When she tells you not to speak to her family, remind her that they are your family too. That's one of the major differences between marriage and other relationships. You marry the person and you also marry their family. When you cheat on your spouse, you also cheat on your entire family - kids, extended family, in-laws and EVERYONE.

And yes, it seems she has a bunch of affair-cheerleaders for friends. They are toxic.

Do you know that all waywards say this? do you want to know why? Part of it is the comparison to the affair euphoria, but the main purpose is to justify the adultery. The wayward reasoning is that: my marriage was unhappy "for years", therefore, I am entitled to an affair.

But lets examine the logic here. First off, most BS' can produce evidence that the WS was happy via cards, specific incidents, etc. More importantly, if a marriage is bad, the logical solution is to work to turn it around. NOT to have an affair.

I agree that you should continue to speak to all the family members about her ADULTERY whereever you see an opportunity. AND tell your MIL the statistics I gave you and explain to her that her D's affair has a 95% chance of crumbling and if it did make it, her DD would be miserable living with a man in a relationship that is based on thoughtlessness and deceit. Her life would be a life of hell and she would be wise to help her D out of this mess. Bring your MIL the book, Surviving an Affair. And most importantly, ASK FOR HER HELP!!

Tabby is right, these are not "friends." A real "friend" wants the BEST for his friend, not the WORST. They are phonies who would hand a suicide a gun just so they would be liked. Gutless weasels! Phonies who won't tell her the truth because they don't care enough to take a RISK. THEY DON'T CARE! They are FAKES!

And I will add her "family" to this same category. Show me a family member who says "I just want her to be happy" while she is doing something self destructive and I will show you someone who DOES NOT CARE.

"I just want her to be happy" when used to justify wrong doing = I DON'T CARE.

How about that!

You are trying to save your family, your marriage. It is your duty and the noble thing to do, remember that. She is trying to destroy her family and her marriage for the simple pleasure of another man’s company and sex. She may say it is for her happiness but if that were the case why didn’t she make even the smallest effort to first try and save her marriage and family instead of lifting her skirt?

You have given your wife much to think about. Her brain is spinning as she tries to rationalize her sordid love affair. Her fog will likely give her the rationalization she needs to continue the affair, at least for now. But know this; your actions have caused a “chink” in the armor. The sun does not shine as it did a week ago.

Next up, have the OM investigated. See if there are any skeletons in his closet. Who knows what you may find. Perhaps he has a felony conviction in his past or a hidden mountain of debt. Your wife’s view of him is greatly based on the background that he provided to her and if you can unearth a few lies…

You also need to expose to the OM's ex-wife. Very important as she will provide you a picture of their failed marriage. She may additionally have influence that none of us can see. So expose there too.

My parting words, your wife lost her way and that in this life even good people do bad things. She is not outside of forgiveness but the road back is long and you are helping her to take her first steps. As you have been informed there is only one way to do that, KILL THE AFFAIR.

Keep your chin up,

Mr. G

scared, here is what i would tell her mother. Give her those statistics on affairs and tell her the answer to a bad marriage is to turn it around, not to have an affair. Then bring up one of your wife's weasel "friends" and tell your MIL this:

There are many former cheaters who have recovered their marriages when the affair crashed.[several are on Marriage Builders] When they sobered up from the intoxication of the affair and recovered their marriages, they did not remember KINDLY the "friends" who enabled them to be bad. In fact, they realized they were not real "friends" at all, but an enabling enemy.

Your MIL has cancer, does she want her DD to remember her that way? <----don't say that

After a calm discussion with WW this morning, I am very confused and not sure whether to continue with Plan A with hopes of reconciliation or just throw in the towel for good. All I read about on this forum is how the WW continually talks about being unhappy for several years. Well, she gave me a pretty convincing argument this morning, probably one that's been well-rehearsed lately. Been married 16 years, with our first child 18 months after the wedding. She claims that she cried when she was home alone with the children and I was working or at other functions (i.e. - having drinks with someone leaving the company, etc.) and that even if I asked, I was going to do whatever I wanted anyway. She says that we have different interests (I believe she sincerely believes that, but I don't buy it completely). She says she hasn't loved me for years and now that the kids have grown more independent with their own circle of friends (ages 14 and 13) that she wants to move on with her life. She'll even pull a few skeletons from the past when I've made some grave judgment errors, once losing a job as recent as 5 years ago. I described Dr. Harley's concepts of how I understand NOW about emotional needs and that our love can be rekindled. She wants absolutely no part of it and simply doesn't want to be with me anymore and wants to move on in her life. I tell her that the kids won't be fine, and she's accusing me of being manipulative, and that she feels like I wait up for her every night she goes out. Not far from the truth on that one, I admit.

She also claims that she's been thinking about D for a while, but the A only gave her the strength to finally pull the trigger. She's even said at some point that if it wasn't him, it would have been someone else. Is that a bunch of crap, or could it be the truth?

She admits that she's in love with the OM and simply not in love with me - hasn't been for years. I don't quite believe that because we seemed to have had nice times along the way. Or, I must be so darn oblivious to what's going on around me. She never really gives me a valid reason when I ask her why she is only telling me now that it's too late, rather than several years ago when she had supposedly begun to lose the feelings for me. Her only lame excuses were that I was oblivious to her signs and/or that I'd joke it away if she ever brought something up.

In speaking with the MIL this morning, the only signs she had gotten in the past were that she may have been unhappy with certain annoying habits, thought we had different interests, and was concerned as to where our relationship would be after the kids grew up and moved out.

So ....... she seems to have a pretty convincing argument, but it also appears that all of the posts say this is common when they're in a fog. Heck, she seemed to convince me, but I don't want to give up, nor do I want to spend a bunch of time chasing a wild dream. Oh, and she signed the D papers today, so I should be getting served sometime real soon. Should I hang on or throw in the towel and cut my losses?

I understand what she means - blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, BLAH.

That is what they ALL say - right out of the Wayward manual.

Like Melody says, when she finishes her speach, tell her you are very sorry, and ask if she wants a potato chip.

It’s the same argument that every single wayward makes that is in the heat of an affair. THEY ARE ALL IDENTICAL.

She NEVER gave you a chance to be a better husband. She NEVER told you what the stakes were. And most of all, she NEVER told you that she didn’t love you any longer. Instead, she waited to have an affair partner and then tell you of these things. That dog don’t hunt.


Follow the advice of others and protect yourself financially. You are self employed; speak with your accountant to create the best possible picture for you. Protect your business. You should easily be able to make her $40K job appear to be the breadwinners.

Follow the advice and obtain HARD evidence of her illicit activities with the other man. EVERY lawyer in this great land would use such evidence in a divorce proceeding at benefit to you. So do it.

Please also take my advice and have the other man investigated.

Keep your chin up,

Mr. G

I live in PA, and I understand that divorce law is different in every state. PA is a no-fault state. I've been advised by more than one attorney that the infidelity and adultery will have NO effect on the distribution of assets or child support. It may factor into alimony and that's it. I was also told that I need not hire a PI unless I want to satisfy myself. I don't need the satisfaction. That satisfaction resulted in my last outburst, at which point she filed that day. I was told that they could subpoena folks in to testify to the relationship, and the threat of that usually causes the other party to give in. Besides, it's not like she's been hiding anything. She's been so open about it, it's disgusting. But then again, I also did alot of exposure. They were afraid to go their "normal" church last night in fear of seeing someone else I may have told. Good. I just wish my MIL didn't get dragged into the bowels of this. Supposedly, the rumor mill worked its way to her fellow employees from her job.

With all due respect Mr. G, I don't see the value in having the OM investigated. So, if I find something, now I have to admit to WW that I'm spying and I think that'll hurt the cause in the long run. Besides, it would have to be some REALLY GOOD dirt to have any effect. Heck, if you investigated me, I'm no angel. I've got several little skeletons in my closet that could probably be dug up (my WW knows them all, anyway), but I don't think any are damaging enough that would cause a WW in the fog to be affected in any way.

In exposing to the gym folks, one guy has been a long time friend of the OM. He says the OM's ex-W was a real whack job, which probably explains why OM has custody of the daughter. I don't think exposing to her would be beneficial.