You are exactly right. The apostle Paul murdered Christians and had an amazing transformation and was forgiven by God. He was changed from the inside out. Many cheaters were changed from the inside out. Many alcoholics are changed from the inside out. People can and do change if they want it bad enough.

Thanks Melody! BS's (like me) come here looking for advice and support. We click on the post title closest to our situation looking for even small glimpses that it can be achieved and it's a real blessing to have people like you making a stand for hope and change!

Who here would try/want to save their M if their WS was jumping into bed with every Tom Richard and Harry they could find???????

That is clearly obvious (is that redundant?). But it is also time-consuming. So I am just curious what is the underlying motivation. I find evangelism of any kind interesting because it says something about human nature. Crusades, Spanish inquisition, go down the list. I am in a culture where everything falls along tribal lines. It is fascinating to see.

Least common denominator? Safety in numbers.

Well he never recovered his marriage so other people giving up validates his position.

Like if I buy a certain car, I'll try and convince you to buy the same car.

It's projection.

Actually, bad analogy.

He's wishing on you the same evil that beset his marriage. But Hey, he's done that to me too.

Safety in numbers.

Just like I bought a Chrysler Lebaron quite a few years ago - 250,000 little old ladies can't all be wrong.

I do tend to agree though. What I sense is validation or possibly even satisfaction at seeing others fail/suffer.

If true, that's a pretty bleak future.

You mean as if a tragedy had befallen ME, I would only feel validated if the same tragedy befell you so I would wish for the same tragedy on your head? Is that what you think? Surely his motivation is not so evil as that.

Sorry but I don't think "evil" is appropriate.

I believe that these wise words explain a lot:

"Sow a thought, reap an action; sow an action, reap a habit; sow a habit, reap a character; sow a character, reap a destiny."

I believe everything we do and become begins with our thoughts.

There is a lot of scientific evidence that shows that thoughts are like ruts in our mind. The more we think the same thought, the deeper the rut in our mind becomes and therefore the harder it can be to undo. But scientific evidence shows that these neuro-pathways (the ruts) can be removed and changed by repeatedly changing our thought processes enough to form new "ruts."

I think the real trick is to a) want to change bad enough and b) do the work to change those thoughts.

A lot of people who have successfully changed have relied on a higher power. Some relied on a traumatic experience.

Since one can change his thoughts, he obviously has the power to change them back again. So, just because we've changed those ruts in our mind once, doesn't mean that we can't become lax and find ourselves changing them back again. Vigilance is important.

My two cents.

I don't think his motives could possibly that evil in nature.

WOW. I think you should be more selective when you pick friends.


How very noble of you!

I'd say it is born out of pain, not evil. It takes a long time to get past this type of thinking. It is attractive as a way of dealing with something that is very confusing and hard to get past.

Okay it is remotely possible that Aphelion could simply be evil incarnate.

But I get back to why he posts. Not trying to save his M. Not able to offer any advice to people who want to try. Absolutely no logical reason for continuing to post here.

Unless.....

Deep inside he really wants help (even if he doesn;t realize it).

That's my guess anyway.

Which is why I want Aphelion to answer my question.

So burn him at the stake if you wish.

I think he just might merit better than that.

What difference does it make that he never recovered his M? Just because you lost a WW doesn't make you a failure. What kind of prize is a WW anyway?

He's not evil incarnate.

Oh please Vladie - I never said anything of the sort. That would be your own interpretation.

Oh please. More to the point, he no longer believes people can change to their core. He sees the reality that MOST people only manage their character flaws...but deep inside, they remain the same selfish and horrible creatures that rutted like pigs in the first place.

And for those that did recover their marriages...count yourselves as LUCKY. You would be in the same situation as many others here if your spouse continued ACTING out their lack of character.

There are a few people here that look down their nose at people that have not recovered their marriages. Maybe it is time to get over yourselves....and realize that you could be but a day away from another devastation.

Aph obviously is a person in pain...and he needs help. He doesn't need constant derision from those that post

It may be obvious to you and I, but it's not obvious to newbies and lurkers.

Hurting people...hurt people.

Doesn't make it right.

His posts are coherent and offer seeming logic. The motivation and history behind his recent posts are fair game to put his conclusions in context.

His "taker" is raging finally, after years of abuse, a very long term affair and the recent breach of no contact by Aph's wife. Aph's never seen repentence so he doesn't think it exists. I remain sorry for his predicament and don't really blame him for being mistaken. He's a smart guy...he'll get through this rough patch.

OR...he's just playing a game with the board since elsewhere he doesn't seem to hold the same opinions of former (and current) waywards.

Mr. Wondering

They hurt? Never my intention. I try to be non-violent.