Thank you for the encouragement, Imagine and M2B. (And everyone else.)

My H still has no desire to read here or post here. The EN questionnaire still sits unanswered on his desk. He's working through all of this his own way.

We've had bad days and good days, but I've been concerned more often then not. I have to keep reminding myself to give it time. At over 6 weeks we're still early in this process. But here's what's happening.

H has become more detatched since Saturday, being quiet and spending more time alone. We did have SF last night, but afterward we got into a long discussion until 3:30am that got heated at times. (I worked very hard not to LB but was not perfect.) This was the first time this week that we have really talked at all. Otherwise, every communicaiton about our relationship has been via email or IM. Up until this last weekend, we've been emailing and IM-ing yes, but we've also been having in-depth, hours-long talks in-person. I've told H I need the real conversations too, to see his face, eyes, and body language, but he said he can't look at me when he talks about some of this stuff. ??? We have been talking in-person for the previous 5 weeks so I'm worried this is a sign of pulling further away. I'm trying to honor his wishes for written communication, but it's difficult as emails and IMs can be misinterpretted.

Monday night I sent him an email that talked about everything on my mind. I listed 18 things I am specifically sorry for, I thanked him for all he does for our family, I thanked him for his concern for me, I shared my concerns for him, I asked him to consider filling out the EN form, I told about the anger I have for OM (he had been asking me about it), I recognized what a blessing he and our children are to me, and other points. He responded to what I thought was a well-thought and well-intended email very angrily, tearing my message apart and telling me what I am "really" thinking. It instantly made me defensive and feeling like WTF?

I guess my point is that it was suggested here that I Plan A, even though I am the cheater. I have been doing that. But he's not. He's detatching, LBing, and doing things that frustrate the heck out of me. I do want this M to work. I'm being nice, looking good, telling him what he means to me, having SF, thanking him for all he does, taking care of the house and family, saying I'm sorry, answering his questions, practicing RH, making time for us... In the meantime, it's like he's going back to how he was. Oh, it's not as bad as it was and he is being kind sometimes, but he's employing bad habits again that he had worked so hard in recent months to control. He's being passive aggressive, he's not listening to me, he's not encouraging nor joining family activities as much any more, and he's keeping to himself.

We had planned on attending a event at our kids' school tonight. Two days ago H IMs me that he's "going out" instead. I asked him to do what and he said, "To go out." When our DS learned H wouldn't be joining the rest of us, our DS asked H why. H said he was going out but refused to say with whom, where, or for how long. Only that he's leaving at 5:00 and is going to have dinner some where. So I'm practicing RH, being completely transparant, and letting H know where I am at all times. H isn't doing the same.

This morning H was sweet and we did SF. Then shortly afterward he thanked me for the SF last night and today, then added that he knows after some time, later on today the resentment is going to come back full force and he doesn't think he'll get over the resentment he has. I said I understand. He left the bed and hasn't talked to me face-to-face since this morning, despite both of us sitting here in the same house for the last 6 hours.

L4,

I think you should tell your husband when he slips back into old behaviors, since those behaviors helped you to justify your A and since if he does them enough you won't love him anymore.

I also think he needs more time to think about this. The more time you spend the less likely he is to leave and go to plan D. I am sorry this is so difficult for both of you. I have been thinking about this and I would probably not be able to get past a pre Marriage betrayal that was hidden from me through the marriage ceremony and vows. Maybe you should talk to him about how you feel about that.

Hi L4,

I don't post much but I still read your thread and pray for you, your H and family.


I know you've heard it said before but you can't control anyone but yourself. As you vent your frustrations here, learn how to improve yourself, make the adjustments needed for your own recovery, you may gradually discover your H becoming curious about what/how/where you're learning and he may eventually begin to ask questions.

It will take time. Be patient. And when it does happen, be careful to answer only what he asks. It's easy to overload our loved ones in our exuberance to get results too quickly. At least it was for us.

Keep focused L4 and you'll be amazed when your self-improvements speak louder than any words you may say.

Ace

I'm not going to read the whole thread, sorry, but as a BH 4 months past D-day, I can tell you it is a horribly life changing piece of news to hear if he loves you. To me, the worst thing he will ever have to deal with in his life aside from the death of a child. My life will never be the same, and I have a knife in my heart most of the day.

Six weeks is nothing, hon. I still have a gaping chest wound. You have to just listen and apologize every day I guess.

I always knew it was wrong. But the smack upside the head came one morning in May. A few weeks before I had called OM asking if I should extend my lay-over in his home town when I was flying on business. He said absolutely so I did. The night before I was to return home from a conference I called him. OM's wife was out of town. We talked for four hours into the wee morning. Eight hours later, I landed in his town and called. I asked if he was coming and he said no, reasoning that he should really get some work done. My stopover was something we had known about for three weeks. His wife was out of town, no one was home (he worked from home), he's the manager of his department and could come and go as he pleased... No one would have had any suspicions. Just a few hours earlier he was being sexually explicit with me and telling me he loved me. Now standing in an airport an hour away from him, he couldn't make it. In fact, when I said, "Thanks for being with me last night," his only response was, "Ya. It was fun." He had the opportunity to be with me exclusively and physically -- something he said he was always fantasizing about -- and he dismissed me. I sat in the airport for three hours and had my "epiphany" that I would never be a priority even when his wife and family weren't around. His needs would always come first. Virtual sex on his terms, talk to me when he could, be with me only when he wanted to be. I had lost my integrity, I was lying to my H and many around me, I had guilt upon guilt upon guilt, and I was risking my job, my M, and my family for a man who couldn’t take a couple of hours to see me when we had no idea when the next chance might be. It was my "A-ha" moment.

I'll do my best to keep this in mind, GH31.

I really was. It sounds ridiculous to say this especially when I know now what I know, but I genuinely thought he was the first man I could trust completely -- with my emotions, thoughts, heart, and needs. He often told me I needed to let my guard down and let him take care of me -- something I didn't do easily if at all. I eventually did give in and shared everything with the OM. (Again, as best you can when you live 2 time zones apart and are both married. Geez this was so completely F-ed up!) I no longer love the OM. I do not hate him and don’t wish anything bad for him. The one emotion regarding him that I am still grappling with is anger.

Thank you, Ace.

Hi L4, thanks for replying to my posts.


Is the reason your angry because of the way he rejected you at the airport or showed you that you weren't a priority?

Thanks very much for being open with me and excuse my aggressive question.

I hope very much that you and your husband are tracking well.

Gawd, this sounds exactly like my WW.

I hope she is getting through withdrawal. She says she still really, really misses him "as a friend". Which is just fog.

L4, I've been trying to think of ways to get my W to open up about her feelings without the subject turning to the A. Any advice?

I’m not able to post as often as the kids are having half days and I’m trying to make myself available for family and H at nights. Sorry I’m not getting back to questions as quickly as I’d like.

We had a good weekend, especially considering how rough last week was. Wanted to share with you...

Friday night H and I made eggnog, watched a movie, then had great SF. Saturday I took my son to the symphony. We came back then all four of us went bowling, out to dinner, and all watched a family movie. H stayed engaged the whole time and it was great. It snowed Saturday night and the kids wanted to go out and play at 7:30 Sunday morning. H jumped at the chance to play with them. The kids and I went to church. In the afternoon we all went sledding, had Mexican food, then my H offered to put both of the kids to bed.

Adding to it, H stated Sunday night that he sees all the work I’m doing for him, us, our family, our home, and even myself and he appreciates it. It was nice to hear that he sees that. It was a good weekend.

Last night H and I went to bed in each other’s arms and we cuddled all night. At 2 in the morning he started coming onto me. He got me all excited then abruptly stopped and said, "I can’t do this." He stopped the fondling and just hugged me.

My H has seemed unusually clingy the last few days so this morning I asked if there was anything he wanted to talk about. While I’m loving it, I’m wondering if there is more on his mind than what he’s sharing. He said that he really sees the work I’m putting in to show him how I care and he likes how I’m tending to him. But he added that he knows I’m a liar and he resents me and everything I’ve done. That I’ve ruined our family and he can’t get over that. I told him I’m sorry. He said that I should be.

I know that as recently as yesterday he’s been looking at divorce lawyer websites and ones for child custody. He didn’t tell me this but I see he was researching on our home computer from the browser history.

Last night I asked about specific Christmas plans, assuming we were spending it together based on how he’s been asking me to contact his family about meal preparations. He seemed oddly uncertain so I asked him if he wants me to go. He said he didn’t know because he doesn’t want things to be uncomfortable. Everyone knows what happened and they also know we’re still together. Shouldn’t I be able to be with him and our family? With Christmas 9 days away, I don’t know where or how I’ll be spending it.

I just got an email from H a few minutes ago. He talks about how devious and hard I was this last spring and summer. I’m reading it knowing much of it is probably true from what I’ve learned here about WW fog and how when we’re in the thick of an A, we’re tuned into only our own selfish needs. (Now here it comes…) But… Our marriage problems started years ago, not last spring. H didn’t complain to me at all about my actions until late July when I became completely detatched. Now he interprets our relationship differently. Yes, I had an affair and it puts a completely different spin on things. And an A has the biggest destructive impact on any relationship. Remember though, he didn’t know about the affair while it was happening and he refused counseling until I threatened to leave him in August. He is the one who last spring told me my problems were mine and didn’t have anything to do with him. His revisionist thinking about our marriage is baffling me. During MC in September and October he was admitting to things he knew he needed to change about himself and us. I was doing a bit of the same though admittedly not fully because I had the secret of my betrayal. (Covererd in the first posts of this thread.) Now, he sees nothing wrong with how he’s been in our relationship. I’m torn with responding to this email with the reality as I remember it, or letting it go which will imply agreeing with him. Thoughts? I don't want to jeopardize our very fragile recovery but I don't want to endorse how poorly we treated each other the last few years.

BTW... Speaking of recovery. Are my H and I in recovery if he's not 100% committed to it? I read on this site when the roles are reversed, when a BS wants recovery but a WW isn't, that it's not recovery. What does it mean when the WW is committed but the BS can't commit and waffles back and forth? The mixed signals are dizzying.

Just past week 7 from my confession. Still early I know. It continues…

L4, first of all, I think you are doing WELL.

I suspect that it's going to be at least a year before things really start to settle down, and the effects of what you are doing NOW will start to really pay off.

3 years out, and I still have thoughts of leaving. But a lot of those thoughts are driven by what is happening in my M NOW, rather than what my FWW chose to do prior to D-Day.

So, for now I suggest you resist the urge to immediately "correct" his version of your marital history, as any attempt to do so is likely to be interpreted by him as you trying to justify your choice to have an A. Instead, let him know how you feel when he mistreats or LB's you *now*, and save the history facts discussion/debate for those times when you think you can both do it without LB'ing each other. For which is more important - an M with a mutually-agreed history, or an M where both spouses love and are in love with each other?

I'm upset that he came onto me in the first place as I miss the friendship that existed before. Yes, I am responsible for going ahead with the affair. But I know I never would have been with him if he hadn't told me he was attracted to me. We had been great friends for 5 years. I had never thought of him sexually or any other way before. Even after he told me his feelings, I thought he was sweet but nothing more. Then we started talking more and he encouraged me to tell him everything, share with him my past, tell him about my familiy, and assured me numerous times that I could trust him with anything including my marriage problems... It wasn't until we were involved more than friends that he confessed he had no intention of leaving his wife. I felt he exploited my vulnerabilities and low self-esteem that he learned about while getting close to me to get his rocks off. Yes, I am an adult and it was my fault too. I used him as well. These are residual feelings I'm still dealing with.

I'm also angry at how he treated me toward the end. Begging me to trust him and that he would never hurt me nor leave me and that I could continue to tell him anything. Then when we were discovered, he turned and ran and... Well I don't know what else because we haven't spoken since he abruptly texted me that he doesn't love me and to never contact him again. He also allowed his W to text some choice comments to me. So I sat there that fateful Sunday, dumbfounded that this person who meant the world to me and who told me I was special to him too, could literally turn his back on me as if I never existed. I know this is how it has to work with NC. But I'm still dealing with that real feeling of abandonment when I was at my absolute lowest. My marriage was crumbling, I was a liar, I had broken my own moral code, who I thought was my most trusted friend had left me, I felt like a home-wrecking wh***, my job was rocky, my health wasn't great... I was lost. My fault. I know. Yet easier to be angry with someone just a bit too.

Funny, I'm not angry at him for letting our A be discovered. I think that needed to happen in order for us to get out of the mess we had created. So it's easier to be mad at him for initiating it all in the first place. And for being selfish and cold at the end.

Childish? Probably. Inappropriately deflecting some of my full responsibility? Yes. Not healthy? I'm sure. But you asked me why and these are strictly my feelings...

I'm working on all of this, btw, in my IC. I'm miles ahead of where I was 6 months ago.

Was she open with feelings before? I've always been open with how I'm feeling so it's not a stretch for me now when my H asks me what's happening.

How does the conversation turn to the A? Is it your doing or does she bring it up? Does she compare you to the OM? Does she justify her A because of something that you supposedly did or didn't do?

Thank you, MIM. Good advice. Now I need to follow it.

The end.

L4, maybe the end will reveal a bit more about why your H is struggling at times (in addition to his needing more time). It could also help you discover ways to help him recover, too.

Not sure about you, but for me, when I began to realize that my WH chose me (and truly had become disgusted with OW), I felt like we could begin to heal.

If she had dumped him first, it probably would have taken me/us a lot longer to begin rebuilding trust and starting recovery. I guess I can be grateful that she wanted the reconnections as much as he did (4 d-days, but 3 actually involved contact with OW...the 4th was intercepted but our MC catagorized it as a D-Day due to WH's intent to contact that I discovered the night I gave up and agreed that he should leave). I'm glad she gave WH the chance to dump her, even if it would have been better if he had done so without being busted thrice.

If it had been her choice, his withdrawal might have proceeded differently....well it probably would have but I'm not sure how.

It would have definitely been different for me, being a detail person and extremely paranoid BS...not a good combination. The fact that his dumping you factored into the end of your A may have a more intense affect on your H than if YOU had chosen to establish NC first.

I've missed parts of your thread so if this has already been mentioned, sorry for the duplication.

Ace

L4,

I was thinking about your situation and I was wondering if you had a discussion with your H about your reasons for confessing? I know the standard MB line is that complete honesty is required but I'm wondering if he feels that he was making alot of effort to be a great husband and to make you happy. And then you suddenly confess this horrible thing that happened before you were even married. It could seem like you decided to take a burden off yourself and dump it on him. From a male perspective, you took a problem that you had, your secret cheating, and made it his problem. Now you get to lessen your own guilt and he is the one who has to suffer.

I'm wondering if you should bring this perspective to a conversation and explain why you felt you had to confess.

Spot on, Ace. I hadn't thought of this and it makes perfect sense. The fact that OM cut me off completely first verses me initiating total NC, is likely a major roadblock for my H. He, like you, is a details person. He is convinced that if OM's W had left OM when she discovered our A, that I would have left to be with OM.

H has stated several times that he doesn't know if he should thank OMW for staying with OM, or if H should be upset with her for not kicking OM to the curb and blowing everything open back in June.

I had huge guilt about the A and was pushing H away. I would vascilate between 'H deserves better than me,' and 'The M is bad anyway so why invest anymore into it? Just walk away...'

When we started MC and H began listening to me, changing, and fulfilling some of my needs, I realized that H perhaps does care for me after all. I kept walls up because I was suspicous of his motives and didn't trust his changes were for real, but even more because I wasn't fully committed to the M due to my betrayal. 'I'm not worthy of happiness,' was my thinking, 'so why try?'

I was so confused and through IC and straight talk from folks here (see the very beginning of my struggles at the beginning of this thread), I realized that I had made my choice. If I truly wanted to be committed to my H and this M, he deserved to know the truth, he needed to know who I am, and I needed my H's help if he was willing.

I initiallly did not confess to the A I had 2 years before we were married. That came out a few days after I confessed to my PA from earlier this year.

My IC felt the same way. He said he's seen many times when someone confesses that it's more to relieve their own guilt and to burden the other with having to deal with it all. I know others disagree with this (including my H) but I had to understand why and accept what I had done first before I could reveal my cheating to my H and devastate him.

We have talked about this. And it's interesting how many people -- my friends, my family, his friends, his family -- wonder why I bothered to confess? Why I would ruin my reputation and be "the bad guy" when it's likely it would never have been revealed on my end. But I was falling apart, and I felt my H deserved to know who he was married to.

L4,

I'm not trying to blame you, just trying to see if it might help your H to know why you told him all this.

It does seem that the existence of the preM cheating was having a huge effect on you, and now it is having a huge effect on him. Maybe it will help you to think back on how difficult it was for you to bear this burden. Now the burden is on your H, hopefully he will be strong enough to heal from this.

The fact that that you exposed everything in one shot is long far better than "the trickle truth". Who knows how THAT would have gone down.

Oh, gosh, 6YL, I didn't hear blame at all in your earlier comment. Though I don't fault anyone here when they do blame me. For the record, I blame myself enough for all of this anyway. Thanks for your consideration.

Actually, the preM I hadn't dwelled on in years. Maybe in passing if I heard the OM's home town or heard someone of the same name, but I gave it little to no attention. That's horrible to read, I'm sure, and it's hard to type. It's disgusting but true. I had all but forgotten about my preM infidelity. I didn't even reveal it to my IC nor our MC until I admitted it to my H. And even then, I didn't reveal it to my H immediately. I had no feelings for OM1. I ended the PA and never looked back. I hated how I was with him and felt huge guilt at the time and for a few months afterward. But I had no withdrawals and once I convinced myself that I was never going to tell my then BF, I worked hard to put it behind me and continued on. I hadn't felt guilt about that betrayal until my H ran me through a gamut of questions about my past. Then it hit me squarely between the eyes. Then all the old guilt came rushing back and I saw how real and awful it is for my H. He knows he would not have married me if he had known. I knew it too, back then. Which is why I never told him. 100% selfish. That's me. Or was me.