My WW says ALL the same things. She even took photos of me that she wanted me to put on a social website to help me make new friends. She won't let me show ANY physical affection to her. If I try to touch her (hug), I get karate chopped.

Our WW's love bank accounts for us are bankrupted. According to Dr. Harley, WW won't feel in love with us until we make enough deposits back into their love bank accounts by meeting enough of their ENs. Just read SAA again and pay close attention to Sue and John's story. Sue thought that she would never feel love for her H either. But eventually she fell back in love with him.

Don't lose hope, just follow the plan. This sounds like pretty normal stuff to me based on what I'm going through and what I've read from others and the Harleys.

She did fill in the Emotional Needs questionnaire then 2 days later said the chance to reconcile was all gone.

I asked her to show it to me and she said, not if you are going to use it to try and get me back.

I did read it however, then she threw it away as I left her house.

She felt, whilst I was there for 2 months that she had got into a "mess" again and was unhappy. That's the way she felt before she left originally.

I belive I made the mistake of jumping back in too soon and not undertanding the concept of really trying. I have changed, my IC has done that. I am no longer controlling or jealous, I can control my emotions MUCH better and my wife noticed that.

What I din't do however, was go through the EN at the start of the 2 months reconciliation. I just acted out my new presonality and gave her all the affection I could.

Her top needs are Admiration and Recreational Companionship. In her words, I praise her then take it away again with a comment.

She says she needs me to realise that she has changed and needs her independence much more. She also states that we have no common interests. That is true as she has NO hobbies outside work and only socialises with one particular friend (the one that keeps her out late - who is also married but to a man who has total indifference to his wife's antics)

She needs conversation as well, but stated that she felt like she didn't really have a lot to say at the moment.

I know she was emotionally involved with someone else (stated as the usual "just friends") and that he was an escape for her at the time. I fully believe that this relationship was NOT physical. She has had no contact with him now for 4 months.

I think to her, being married to me at this moment is not what she wants, she wants my companionship and friendship because we hve a long history together. She feels trapped with me in her life full time though. At the end of the day, I want her to be happy and I would prefer that to br with me rather than alone.

That is likely more truth in that simple statement than you realize.


There is a good chance that she may think your actions are just a façade to trick her. She is likely suspicious in your motives and might think that they are entirely self serving and will not complement the things that are important to her.


She saw right through that act and as a result you have further alienated her. Perhaps it is time to “get it right”? When affection is not desired it can be the most repulsive action on the face of the earth, remember that.


My guess is that you really don’t admire her. Think about this, from her viewpoint how anyone could admire the way she is treating you, you appear weak and undesirable. In the past you likely appeared insincere and manipulative. As you see, applying emotional needs is not as easy as one might think.


Independence is the buzz work for the phase, “Leave me alone and let me be”. But want you can give her is the independence to be a “free thinker” whose opinions matter and carry weight. Do you see how that plays in with “admiration”?


Do you dine out together? Read the same books? Like the same movies? Subscribe to similar politics? Enjoy the same art? Shop at the same stores? I could go on and on but the moral of the story is that it is your assignment to find common interests that puts a smile on each of your faces and generates topics of mutual interest. Perhaps it is meeting her after work on Wednesdays at Joe’s Bar and Grille for a beer and burger. I don’t know, but you need to find out where the common ground lies, it’s there so find it and then subtlety work it in to become part of your time together.


This is where she experienced just how lonely she was and now she has expectations that she currently believes you unable to fill. You say you believe that the relationship wasn’t physical and perhaps you are correct but really it makes little difference. The effect is the same; she has imprinted her feelings on someone else and enjoyed the way it felt, she wants to find it again. How can you be certain that she has not seen nor talked to this individual for over four months? Further, how can you be certain that this man or woman is not an ongoing object for her affections?


What are you really saying here? Does what she wants really matter to you? Instead, why don’t you become the kind of person that brings happiness to her life? You are powerless to make her do anything your only power comes from how you relate to her in your daily lives.

Mr. G

Wow Mr G. Thanks for the reply. I guess it's hard getting your real self over in type.

She did say that at first she wasn't sure that my changes were permanent, now she knows they are because they were made for me and not "us". She understands that and accepts it. I am a happier person for the changes I have made to me. (they are not massive, but certainly eye opening)

When I said I "acted" out my new personality it was a fruedian slip :RollieEyes: I meant to say that I was just being myself, I wasn't trying to be anything else. I couldn't see the point in trying to be anyone but who I had become. I agree with you regarding undesired affection. This something she certainly felt. It was annoying her as she couldn't or didn't want to accept it r reciprocate.

You are right, I don't want to admit that there is a lot of resentment coming from me regarding her desire for independence. I have over many years told her time and again that she is better then who she thought she was. I encouraged her to start back at college at the age of 40 and was supporting her financially and emotionally. I guess I drifted off somewhere along the way. Truth is, the last 4 years have been a struggle for me as I started my own business and it failed.

She always thought that I never tried hard enough to make it work and "buried my head in the sand" regarding the problems it was causing. That's enough to put anyone off. I have acknowledged that to her and agreed.

With regards to inetersts, yeah, we went out for meals together and have always enjoyed that. We do shop together and over the last 2 months spent every weekend out somewhere together. The other interests I believe she means are hobbies, horse riding, dancing etc. I don't think that she would be willing to try anything anymore though. She has mentally given up and feels relieved that she dosn't have the pressure of my being there. she stated that she actually felt a great sense of relief having told me it weas all over last weekend.

The OM, she has told me that there has been no contact. I believe her. Whether he is still the object of her affection. I don't know.

Your final comment is spot on. I do want to be the person that brings happines to her life and to do that I need to remain her best friend and not exert pressure on her regarding anything more than that.

So you now have a roadmap to help guide you to making choices to best restore your marriage. There can be no guarantee that you will be successful but success can only come if you try.

You do not need to feel invasive by letting her know that you long for the family you once had and the love you once shared. The simple truth is that such things are taken for granted and treated recklessly until they are lost. Only then does their real importance surface.

We get only one go around on this earth so it is important that we make it a good one. Take your time and show her the new you, the one under construction. One day she will hopefully accept one of your love bank deposits and the opportunity to restore your marriage will be at your feet. So, do not expect the quick miracle. You will have to become who you want to be, she will never purchase a fake.

My parting comment to you is to encourage her education about life and love. Although you have little chance to say much that will not be viewed by her with skepticism and suspicion you should encourage her to consider jointly meeting with a psychologist who is trained in the art of relationships. After all, you have the truth on your side. She may not know it right now but if she wants to discover love again there is no better opportunity than with the father of her children. A good psychologist can help you both to take the baby steps towards a better future. You are looking for a marriage counselor who believes in marriage preservation and relationship building.

Mr. G

She is dead set against MC. She doesn't want to "air her laundry in public" and thinks they are a waste of time. That was when she wanted to try again. Chances of her going now?...NIL.


Thanks anyway Mr. G Your input has been invaluable.

And don't push it either...

One seldom knows what mañana holds. Be patient.

Best of luck to you,

Mr. G

Any ideas on how to act when I go over for a meal. As a 'friend' I can't do the new me thing any better as I have been seen to change and it didn't work Not that I want to change now, I like the new me and she does too, it just doesn't push the right buttons.

Well I am just journalling really.

It's Christmas Eve here and WAW is working all day today and tomorrow so that will keep her from getting in touch. She works from 7am til 9 pm.

When I 1st left her house 10 days ago I felt OK with myself and that things were not really working. The more I am back on my own though, the worse I feel.

I am beginning to obsess again about what I can do to save things and what she may or may not be doing.

I am not sure it's because I have been on here and reading a lot of stories, both good and bad.

I have my eldest son with me for the next couple of days (23yrs old) and she will have no-one after work so I am in a better place that way.

I can't help wondering if she has really lost all her feelings for me apart from the "friends" type of love and that it's not anything to do with her EA (that lasted 6 months and she stopped it at my request 4 months ago)

One thing that no-one on here knows is that I was almost a WAH 8 years ago. I got involved on-line with someone and was making plans to leave until I was busted by a friend. My BS (as she was at that time) took me back into her heart and got over it very quickly and never mentioned it again. I am stating this now as I understand her feelings of "not finding you attractive" and "ILYBINILWY". I was in that place and it was only when I thought everything was lost that I came out of the "fog".

I wonder to myself if she has had NC for 4 months and still feels the same towards me, then it's time to release myself from her and move on.

"It's a weary road I am travelling down with a heavy heart in tow. I hope that I can make it there, but I'm not sure I really know." (a little verse I just randomly made up )

The best advice I can give you is also the oldest advice available. It is, “Time and Patience”. Show her “clam” show her “resolve”, show her “graciousness and consideration”, and show her “love of the family”. Stay vigilant in these areas and perhaps one day the teller window to her love bank will accept your deposit.

Mr. G

I think that it has a great deal to do with her affair. I suggest to you that it is the driving force that has allowed her to make you fully expendable. As suggested earlier, she may well still be engaged in this affair. You are likely in a fight for her attention as she has imprinted her hopes and happiness somewhere else. Is that “somewhere else” another person? That is the most likely scenario. Remember, it is OK to let her know that you are fighting to keep the marriage and your family together. That is an honest and noble target.

Mr. G

That is too bad and a bit sad. No one should be alone on Xmas evening.

I could be out of line here because I am not living the dynamics of your issues but I would send her a copy of “It’s a Wonderful Life” or the original “Miracle on 34th Street” and a bag of popcorn so that when she gets home it is there for her. A simple note, “No one should be alone on Christmas Eve”, would suffice.

Like I said, the dynamics for doing something like this could be wrong but from my vantage point it is something that my wife would appreciate.

Mr. G

From my point of view Mr G, I feel extremley sad that she is alone on Xmas Eve and on Xmas Day after work. I am sure that she will have a friend call on her.

I am probably little bitter, but I did suggest when she told me to leave 10 days ago, that we should see it through Xmas as it will be no fun being alone. Her response was "It won't be any easier after Xmas you know" It's therefore her choice, Not mine.

If she feels the need for a chat, she may call me, she knows that.

That is your call, entirely your call.

Perhaps you have other Plan A overtures to make.

I'm sure you'll do what is best.

Enjoy your Xmas Eve with your son.

Mr. G

Well Merry Xmas Everyone!

I did'nt send anything as it was impossible. I didn't get or initiate contact either.

What I have done this morning is to send her a nice Merry Xmas email to her work address. "Have a good day and see you tomorrow."

That's all I think that is needed.

Thanks for your continued advice Mr G and I hope your Xmas is as good as it possible can be.

Called MIL todat to wish her merry xmas, she is on her own since FIL died 8 yrs ago.

She told me W was missing me and wasn't sure what she wanted.

Pretty much sums up what I thought. W is undecided. All she knows atm is that she doesn't want to be in a realtionship. Wht DOES she want. At this moment, no-one knows.

Got a VERY cheery phone call from her today from work. She was upbeat and checkig if I was still OK for going over tomorrow, I replied, "Damn Straight!"

Left it at that.

See what tomorrow brings.

GoodLuck! Ill be praying for ya

Thanks for the prayers Zach.

Well I have just got back from my W house. We had a nice day all in all. Everyone was happy and upbeat and there were no heavy talks about anything.

I overheard my W telling my son that she "loves me to bits" but nothing more and that I would be OK. That hurt me a little. I didn't show it though.

I have been invited out with my W and a couple we know for my buirthday on New Year's Eve and told I could stay at her house (on the sofa). I thought that was nice, but didn't accept until I had given it a lot of thought.

When I left I got a nice hug and a kiss on the lips. That was totally out of the blue and initiated by her. Probably nothing in it, but it's not what "friends" do!

I am going to carry on trying to love from a distance and build up the friendship slowly and carefully.

Can I ask some of the "vets" on here, what is going through someones mind when they can say "love you to bits" but nothing else?

What else is needed?

I know that at the moment she doesn't find me attractive physically, but there is a deeper connection.

What on earth is meant by that?

I am getting more confused by the day