I knew her because we worked at the same office. We became involved after her divorce from ex-H. It was a bitter divorce on both sides and I'm trying to keep it from that, or if final, from becoming bitter.

She is a very unforgiving person, again, another trait that should cause me to wonder why this would be worth it.

She stated that she was initially very remorseful after the A started, but that it went away, and my travelling made it easy to have the A. Not exactly heartwarming stuff to make me want it to work.

They use all kinds of idiotic rationalizations on why they cheated on you.

The truth is that it doesn't matter. There is absolutely no valid excuse for cheating on your spouse. NONE.

You were gone too ofen? Sorry excuse.

You gained weight? I'm sure she has too.

You haven't been very attentive? How often did she tell you this?

You have no kids of your own with her?

What motivation do you have to save this marriage if you have no kids of your own with her and she cheated on her previous husband?

And don't say "I love her" because that's not enough.

My motivation is that when the relationship was really good (8 of the 10 years)it was REALLY GOOD in all aspects. It was only the last two years, and in particular the last 6 months where things went REALLY BAD, which led to the A.

The kids treat me like their dad and we have a very strong bond. I had the big V, as we had decided on no more kids. Yes it can be reversed, but there was a serious committment that this was our family.

The fact that she has cheated means I have to expect extraordinary effort from her, which I have not seen to date.

Without it, I agree with your comments.

hurting,

Sounds like you've got your head scr*wed on straight, even through the pain, and are unwilling to turn yourself into a doormat. Good.

You will probably, then, have the fortitude to bear up under your WW's coming wrath. Also good.

If she remains "unforgiving"(Sheesh! SHE has affairs, and SHE'S unforgiving! ) you will know when enough is enough and go through with a D. Good again.

Given her history, you know you have an uphill battle, but you seem prepared. All you can do now is watch and see, over time, whether she will rethink her wayward mindset.

Hopefully, once her fury abates, you can work together on Emotional Needs, Love Busters, and the other MB mainstays (Radical Honesty, Policies of Joint Agreement, Care and Time).

I really hope you guys make it. But if you don't, you will be able to walk away knowing you made positive changes in yourself and that you gave it your all.

Blessings,

Right Here Waiting

Knowing what happened in her first M, when I found about the affair while she was with me, I still thought it was worth saving, but I have been doing so with my eyes wide open, and from reading this site since D-day + 1day.

So far, despite hoping that I wouldn't see the classic behaviour, this has played out like a script. That keeps me here seeking more and more advice and I'll share my story as it develops.

sorry to bust your bubble. That's exactly what i thought in my case. It is the complete opposite ! Like it or not, it is you the WS who not only has to go through the betrayal and rejection but also will have to put in that extraordinary effort to get through this.

First she needs to get through withdrawl - during which time she will completely shut you off. Does not mean you should not try but not much gets registered.

You may want to read up the famous Plan A thread floating around. It is about giving and not expecting anything in return and that's what makes it so difficult.

I like where you are drawing your motivation from and that is a good thing.

Are you legally married?

Yes.

Get NC set up as soon as possible. There should be absolutely NO contact of any kind.

Nobody uses heroin a little bit. It's imperative that NC is set up before work can even begin on the marriage.

I sincerely wish you the best of luck with recovery. Believe me, you are very well placed if your WW is showing some remorse and expressing a wish to "find her way back to you".

If my WW expressed any remorse for her sleazy affair I would be elated. We live under the same roof, have sex and do everything together but she hasn't come close to apologizing for the lies, deceit, double standards and hypocrisy.

I am working with the OMW to monitor their activities. Obviously, we have both demanded the same thing, NC.

My WW has refused to respond to my texts yesterday and today. Asked me not to attend our son's hockey game. She is raging inside and I'm not sure when it will come my way, but it will. I think both waywards know that the BS are in contact and sharing info, so it may be that they both close off.

So far I've gotten a good look at the minds of the waywards with what the OM has been telling his BS. Most of it must be stuff my WW was saying about me. WOW, was she making me out to be the worst POS around.

It is tough, but I'm sticking it out.

Hey Hurting,


This is absolutely, 100% textbook for a wayward, particularly a wayward wife. This is precisely what I would have expected had I called the OMW.

They have to build this image of us as monsters in their minds otherwise they would have no "right" to have an affair.

Your WW will be raging inside because her filthy little secret which was never meant to see the light of day - has done. My WW is an abolsute POS to live with at the moment as her OM has gone back to the other side of the world and gone silent. I am enduring some hardcore verbal abuse at present. All par for the course I'm afraid - they behave like entitled, piece of garbage teenagers who have had their drugs taken away from them.

your son, then go to his game, WW is not the game police

If nothing, my exposure has thrown my WW and the OM together closer temporarily as they are texting and talking like mad. My WW is over the top mad as the OM told my WW that I told his wife that I am the second spouse she has cheated on and she asked her WH how happy he was now to be third in line.

My WW is unbelievably pissed that I shared my info on the new affair and the old affair with the OMW. The old one is largely public info around the workplace, but whatever. There is definitely conflict underway within the A, but they are trying to do damage control and they are preoccupied at the moment with it.

Do I continue to try to make contact with her, or just leave her alone. I told her today that I am trying to make things work, but it is just looney tunes while she tries to keep contact with her OM. Right now they appear [censored] scared about further exposure. MB was right. I have never seen her more mad than right now. She won't discuss anything with me.

Oct,

You are trying to make things work? You are not legally married, you are the second BH in a row? Are you thinking straight about this?

I'm motivated by the kids and what my ww used to be like. From what I read, every WW is similar and can come back from this, but there's no guarantee.

You're young and these aren't your kids. I question why you want to be with someone who is a serial cheater. They're not your kids. They have a dad and it sounds like he's very much involved in their lives.

The "for the kids" excuse doesn't really hold up, IMHO.

Don't martyr yourself for kids that aren't yours. Believe me, they don't see you as a dad, especially when they have one that is truly involved in their lives.

You're a young guy and could have kids of your own with a woman who hasn't cheated on her husband.

I'm not telling you to leave her, but I'm trying to play devil's advocate here.

I do know that if I met a woman and married her and that she cheated on me that I wouldn't try to work anything out without kids in the equation.

I'd kick her to the curb, count my blessings, and move on. I've been betrayed once. I will not tolerate it a second time without kids in the equation.

Kids in the picture? I don't know if I'd try to save the marriage, but I sure as heck would fight for primary custody.

You can have "a wonderful 8 years" with a new woman who doesn't have a history of cheating.

Seriously, I hope this helps you see that the first BH isn't the demon your WW has made him out to be.

The demon here is your WW and you aren't legally married to her and could walk away cleanly.

"For the kids" doesn't hold any water when they're not your kids.

I'd also find a way to let her know that she's still in contact with OM and that needs to cease.

Seriously, a big FU is in order if it continues. You have no reason to tolerate being abused in this way and no kids to save the marriage for.

That move would probably shake her out of her cake eating faster than anything else you could do.

But i'm a hardliner when it comes to unfaithful spouses in marriages with no kids. These kids aren't yours (you may wish to tell yourself that you're like a father to them, but you're not, and I'm sure they'll frequently remind you of that in their teen years).

Why haven't you guys exchanged vows?

I think you have been given some very BAD information, or more than likely misinterpreted the information.

Not every WW can or will "come back from this". In fact the failure rate for WW's is much higher than WH's.

Did you know that 2/3 of all divorces are filed by the W??? Wonder Why???

WW's are MUCH more likely to have already given up on the M and emotionally moved on with their lives ... hence the term "Walk Away Wife".

It is my opinion that MOST of the WW's we see here are indeed in "Exit Affairs", where they want to leave the M, but are afraid of taking action alone. They need the support system of an OM, plus the safety net of their fantasy that they will be able to live "happily ever after" and NOTHING in their lives will change with the exception of the name of the man sharing their bed.

In your case, you don't even have the benefit of a formal or legal "COMMITTMENT" from your WGF. Also, and this will be hard for you to accept, but those "kids" that are your "motivation" are not your biological children and should have NO bearing in your decision making process. You aren't even their STEP-father. I understand that you have become attached to them and maybe have even developed a type of "fatherly" love for them ... but the cold hard facts are that they are simply your GIRL FRIEND'S children and you have ZERO legal rights where they are concerned.

One other thing, don't be distracted by the memories of what your GF USED to be like. That is not who she is NOW. It's very possible ... likely probable ... that this is her true character ... NOT the illusion you had of her pre-A.

PROTECT YOURSELF FIRST and FOREMOST!!!

Well, I wouldn't put too much effort into trying to meet her EN of conversation, that's for sure

If Domestic Support is high on her list, then take care of the house, the yard, laundry, stuff like that.

If Family Commitment is high maybe send out some last minute Christmas cards to your families'.

I mean, meet some ENs here and there if you can but mostly hunker down for a couple of days, avoid LBs, and enjoy the show.

All good points.

My heart is there, but my head isn't.

Today I went to talk to her at her office as she wouldn't respond to anything else. I basically asked if we could stop the vicious circle (her seeing the OM or having contact, and me exposing the affair to more people than I already have).

She did all the blaming and how she can't trust me, blah blah blah.

The OMW sent her a couple of nasty e-mails that likely won't have much impact as she may be exactly what you suggest. Not like the first 8 years, when times get tough, this is what she is.

I said she didn't learn anything the first time around and she's breaking up two families. Nothing, no reaction.

I talked with the OMW after and said that the WW told me there was nothing to talk about, and it was over. The fear for the OMW is that if my WW or WGF (whichever,)is on her own, she will be looking to grasp onto something or somebody (financial difficulty). This was definately an exit affair for my WW/WGF as she thought our relationship was over and that I didn't care for her. She was just shocked when she realized I did. It changed things for about three weeks and then back it went.

Believe me, every day brings about a change in my perception and today I think it truly is over and I need to cut my losses and find somebody else. She isn't going to change, and doesn't want to change.

If you leave then you should simply say "Thank God I never married you. You're a cheater and once a cheater always a cheater. You deserve each other. I'll go find a real woman. Thanks for the life lesson."

Then be out the door, don't look back.

There are TONS of good women out there. Plenty of good ones in their thrirties with no kids that are looking for a good man, too.

Give one of them a chance and start a family of your own.

She's not your wife. Count your blessings. Technically she isn't committing adultery on you (but certainly with another married man).

Seriously, life is too short to waste on people who are morally bankrupt. She cheated on her first husband. That says enough.

She claims to feel bad about it. Does she truly? Has she every apologized to her ex H?

If a woman cheats once and learns from it, then it's a mistake. Twice? That's a pattern.

A serial cheater and one you are better off being without since she'll just break your heart again down the road.

No woman is worth this kind of pain. And no woman that does it more than once is worth a second thought.

She's morally bankrupt. So thank God you're only 38 and young enough to catch a woman that is worth it and who can give you a chance to have a family of your own.

Today was a real eye opener for me to see how mad she was, even though my actions that were making her mad were always a reaction to how she was continuing to see the OM and rub my face in it. The exposure of the A was her weakness as she knows (and the OMW agrees) that the second A is going to make her look the worst out of all of us, as everyone around her knows she had an affair on her first H. These people didn't know her first H, but they know me very well (I've worked here for 12 years) and I have a good reputation here for being a fair-minded, good person. I will not let her take that away from me.

If it was truly an exit affair, which I believe, then she went out with a bang. You know, she was sitting on the fence trying to decide between me and the OM, and she said today that I kicked her off the fence by telling the OMW about the A.

The OMW says that he has told her that he loves her and will work things out with her (hopefully). They are going on a 2 week holiday together, while my WGF sits home alone (no kids).

I will be moving around seeing different friends and getting my mind straightened out and pointed to the future. I just finished changing beneficiaries and changing benefit plans, etc etc. There will be other activities that will need tending to as well.