THIS is the approach my WH was attempting to take. I was working the MB recovery plan, with Jennifer and these here boards. I was not interested in the 'sweep it' marriage, hence the divorce.

I would not remain in that situation, even if it meant holding my family together. That's not glue, that's silly putty and the likelihood of failure further down the road was HIGH. The likelihood of WH being a repeat offender, as if he wasn't already, would have skyrocketed.

I wanted to work the plans, he wanted to avoid them at all costs.

Yes, Pep and SL...

It is CRITICAL, imo, that both partners get on board with marital recovery...They MUST become a TEAM to do this - see their marriage as something very priceless to PROTECT TOGETHER...Working the MB program together really helps to create this TEAM perspective and it turns both partners into BUYERS, rather than renters or freeloaders...Very, very important...

Mrs. W

I wouldn't say they have a GREAT chance for success. My WH's FIRST affair was killed completely. NC and all that jazz. That does not spell recovery for a marriage. ONLY the willingness and desire to recover on both spouses parts spell recovery, IMO.

I did not have that. My WH was looking for a way out, one easier than just leaving on his own. He wanted a soft place to fall, IMO. When he got it, he was still missing the homestead, the comforts of marriage, but he wasn't missing the work of marriage. Cake eater galore.

The BH or the BW cannot recover a MARRIAGE alone. It takes both parties, all in, b@lls to the wall, so to speak. Not for the faint hearted. Believe me, *I* tried to recover the marriage, and it ended up I WAS doing it ALONE, but it doesn't work that way.

Now, I certainly did learn a lot along the way, changed some things that I didn't like about myself, about how I communicated with others, and am STILL working on these things. It did not save my marriage because I was the only one wanting it saved.

SL

I enjoyed your "silly putty" comment.

EGG ZAK LEE

yeah, enjoy it, because there are only so many of those I can come up with

Well, you know what Mark Twain said about statistics...
Who knows. There is so much conflicting info out there.
I sympathize with the folks that feel like had they done something differently or better(like Plan A or B) the results might have been different.
Things happened so fast for me after discovery. There had already been a plan in place for the OM and my WW to move inot a place that was being readied. She had been surrepptiously moving stuff over there. I was in no frame of mind to research tactics and it was so far along, I would nothave had any time to stop the move. So, it does give me some comfort to know that in many cases, the die was cast, the handwriting was on the wall, etc.

TOTALLY AGREE w/ you SL! You made a VERY wise choice, imo...We see many around here that do NOT choose that wisely and instead remain married to an unwilling and unrepentant WS...They are left wondering if they have a true FWS on their hands...Here is what I KNOW, if you DO have a real FWS, you will NOT have to question it...it will be BLATANTLY OBVIOUS...Kudos to you for knowing the difference SL - you ARE one of the SUCCESS stories around here!

Mrs. W

I guess some of this depends on how one defines recovery from infidelity. Perhaps most marriages don't end over infidelity, but I imagine, it had the effect (among other things obviosuly) of putting divorce on the table as a viable option. Both for the BS and the WS, but for different reasons.

Prior to d-day or the A, I would have to guess most people's attitude about any marital problem was that "they have to work this out because they are going to be together for a long time." After d-day, I imagine the attitude has changed to "if they can't work this out, they will just get divorced." I think this change in attitude decreases people's desire to work through marital problems.

I don't think any survey is going to capture this dynamic.

Its sort of like asking a person who quit their job after they won the lottery did you quit because you won the lottery. He will say, no I quit because it was a lousy job. Lousy it may be, but they would have found a way to work through it had they not won the lottery.

I also think this is why second marriages have a lower long term success rate than first marriages.

Interesting rprynne, but Mr. W and I are the exact opposite of what you describe...Prior to the affair, our marriage was in deep trouble...We were both incredibly withdrawn...Mr. W had already expressed his unhappiness with the marriage to his parents...Believe me, for him to do that, it meant that it was a BIG DEAL to him...Divorce was on the horizon in his mind for sure...It played at the back of my mind as well...Neither of us were "BUYERS"...

It has only been AFTER the affair that we have become "buyers" and we have become so by working the MB recovery plan AND going to church...deepening our faith and coming to a true understanding of what God intended marriage to be...Knowing that THIS is IT...We are in this marriage "until death do us part" and we will do whatever it takes to make it the marriage that we both WANT and ENJOY...

Mrs. W

Yup, completely agree. When the Z came home the last time, he really SAID all the things that a BS wants to HEAR, but he didn't follow thru (no actions). I actually knew early on that it was over (thanks to my MB training). I asked him to leave by Thanksgiving of 2007; he stayed until I finally said to 'git' in March.

It was not a tough call at that point. Plan B, for me, had done it's job. I was ready to try recovery, but I was also not willing to settle, I had regained my strength, reconnected with myself, and came out of my own fog about who I was dealing with. I knew it would be an uphill battle, but I was willing to give it a try.

I can only hope and pray that the Z has learned SOMETHING of value in all of this. I have my doubts.

I don't compare myself against anyone else on this forum (like i used to). I did the best with what I had and what I had learned here. Nobody does this stuff perfectly; we fumble along the way. If you have a WS who really wants the marriage, really wants you, no matter how much you fumble, they will be there, they will do whatever they can.

LOL. Knew you would be popping up when I posted that. I'll disagree slightly with the "exact opposite", but I get your point.

My first response would be, well, you're why I used the word "most" instead of always.

Upon further reflection, ... ah, maybe for another post someday.

I see that way too many people even here on MB think that the ending of the affair is recovery.

In many cases, the ending of the affair is just the ending of the affair!

Many BS's settle for way too little only to appear here after the passage of time with their spouse in another affair or still unhappy.

I think as Mel says, many marriages we see here are doomed and the BS would be well advised to cut their losses and Plan B helps them prepare for that.

Way too many people will not insist their WS is contrite and broken before agreeing to recover the marriage.

Far too few marriages really recover and often it is because the BS will take whatever crumbs are offered out of fear or for whatever reason.

Some BS's will eat all manner of crap just to keep the family intact. Some may even see that as noble. Bt those people become quite bitter and cynical eventually.

EXACTLY. The vast majority of these BS are "men" that haven't embraced their manliness in years...if ever. A woman will never respect these men.

When an adulterer morphs into a faithful companion, it's implicit that they have found an imperative for adopting monogamy. What is that imperative though...?

Whether an ethical change is premised upon a secular or theistic ideology a simple inductive definition may be possible. I would call this imperative for change the desire to be true.

If a person is true then they are not false. A person who lives a truthful life cannot also live a false life. Adultery is inherently false b/c it expressly involves maintaining a masquerade. An adulterer manipulates two false relationships (unfortunately one being a marriage) without participating in a single true relationship.

The imperative for change occurs b/c the adulterer desires to be true. They recognize that being false defines their being and that it alienates them from their ideal self. When effectuated, this is a profound personal change that I venture, carries a low recidivism rate.

IMO, the above type of change has to occur before the adulterer loses touch with their ideal self for too long, b/c otherwise they become almost like one of Tolkien's Nazgul-Ringwraiths--a living shadow (of their ideal self). The saddest part is when the adulterer is no longer capable of recognizing how far they have fallen from the ideal and the BS still imagines vestiges of innocence in them. I hope this makes some sense—dunno?

I'll pretty much agree. But I would have to say that I have reservations about chalking it up to a lack of "manliness". Some times, I think "manliness" is what gets them into this predicament.

I feel that men have been raised/trained by society to sacrifice. Really, "bitter" old men is the normal expectation, not the exception.

Don't you have a couple of difficult cats to corral rprynne?

:MerryChristmas:

Mrs. W

Hi,

I wish we could hear from some serial cheaters themselves...see what they say about this question.

I am perturbed....my H has cheated 3x, all within last 5 years, none in 23 years of marriage before that, and none in 1.25 years after the last one.

(no intercourse with any of them, he said, "just other stuff", and the 3 women told me the same thing when I contacted them - unbeknownest to him - wondering if that means they are all telling the truth about that part? What do you think?)

Anyway, he said he doesn't consider those affairs. (?).

I am betwitched and between right now, as they say...

He has been more then attentive, loving, kind, etc., lately, and very in touch with me all of the time (via phone, meeting after work for dinner, intimate, etc.). Says "he wants to grow old with me".

I am not sure what to do. Stay in this marriage, is he "for real" now, or what....he really is trying, so it seems anyway...wondering what the heck to do.

I cannot ever go through that again.

Any thoughts, anyone that has been in this situation, and what happened, would be so helpful!!

Thanks.

not me. A "man" does not let his partner trample over over him in a fashion that I have seen many so called recovered men on this site do on a regular basis. Add those men that sit back month after month...year after year while their wives disrespect them with yet another OM...or maybe the same one as before.

This is what is motivating me to recommit to my M and my relationships -- a sincere desire to be honest. I will not and cannot be false about anything -- including my A and my ENs. With the help of God and those who will stand by me, I will be who I want to be -- honest, loving, and maybe even some day get some respect back.

Thank you, Brix.

Well since YOU have had 4 affairs yourself since finding out about your husband's THREE!!!!!!!! *thud*

Why don't you be the serial cheater that answers...Um, HELLO, look in the mirror lady!