This is good information from him. It is not an occasion to DENY his feelings, but an occasion to ask how you can make him feel loved in the most effective way. Ask him "What can I do to make you feel loved? I love you so much and apparently I am not getting that across. What can I do to change that?"

Can you send him here to us?

You're right Mr. G. I do NOT want to give up on this relationship. We both have way too much invested in this thing and we are a very good match for each other. I will never find a better mate than my H.

It's a no-win situation to take this approach with him, unfortunately. If I let him have the separation that he's indicated he wants, then of course, I will be told that I gave up on our relationship and wasn't willing to stay and fight to make it work.

And if I use your suggested approach and tell him I'm not going anywhere, then I will be a continual source of blame for his inability to sleep, his failings at work, and the lost opportunity to find someone he can really be happy with.

But I am not giving up on our M, so that is a risk I have to take.

Melody, I wish it were that easy. I've asked him this question many times. He simply refuses to tell me. He says I need to figure it out on my own and that if I really loved him I would just know what to do.

Ruth, I don't think he really wants to separate, I think he really wants you to show him how much he means to you. He is saying all of the same stuff I said at this stage.

Have you given him the Emotional Needs questionaire and asked him to complete it? What are his top needs?

Why does he feel you don't love him? Do you ignore him?

I know what you're saying, but he tells me he wants me to just leave him alone to play his computer games. He has admitted he doesn't really want to talk to me on any more than a superficial level or open up to me emotionally (understandably). I ask him all the time how he's doing and if anything is bothering him. I ask him to tell me what he's thinking and he just blows me off. If I push too hard he says we just can't talk because I've made it apparent that I can't handle any kind of serious conversation about his feelings. It seems like it is all about SF, but on the other hand he says he doesn't want to with me anymore.

I don't know how to get through to him at all.

ahhh, is he addicted to his computer games?

You were given advice on what to say but you need to have the strength and conviction to stand behind those words.

Your husband is wrapped up in his own pain. Some betrayed spouses never emerge from their pain. For others it just takes a long, long time. He has not made a decision to attempt recovery. Until he makes that decision there can be little progress made. As I mentioned before, it takes two.

But you are not powerless here. In fact you have great power. First, you can tell him that you REJECT his rationalization for giving up. “I’m not buying it!” You can tell him that you want this marriage and that he is the ONLY one in preventing it from recovering. Such a position is a position of love, so I suggest that you consider adopting it. It seems that he is in a fog of his own, believing that there can be no recovery, that you can’t be anything else except an adulterer. You must proclaim otherwise. You must fight for your marriage and stand up for the changes that have allowed you climb out from your act of infidelity and again hold your head up.

Mr. G

Melody mentioned one point that should have been underlined - do not DENY his feelings. My FWW still does that to me to this day and it pisses me off greatly.

However...

While your choice to have an A was a terrible one, it's also a sign that something was likely wrong in your M, something that needed to be fixed.

Your H apparently does not want to engage you in finding and fixing what needs to be fixed in your M.

I suggest giving him a few more months, and do your best to meet his needs. If his behaviour continues, or gets worse, I suggest seriously considering if you want to spend the rest of your life with him. Ms are supposed to be fulfilling relationships, not lifetime misery sentences.

I don't ignore him at all. He feels I don't love him because we have not had SF up to the level that he would like over the course of our relationship. I'd say over a span of 8.5 years, it's perhaps averaged 2-4 times per month. We've addressed the issue many times and I've expressed ways that I thought could help improve it for me, but his position has pretty much always been that he is not a romantic guy and I knew that going in so I need to accept it. He is now convinced that SF with OM was so much easier and better for me so that must mean that he is not the right person for me.

As for the EN needs questionnaire, we were counseling with SH over the summer and he was supposed to fill out a questionnaire and never did. As of the last few months, he's made it very clear to me he doesn't want to do any MB-related stuff.

Has it crossed your mind he might be having an affair of his own?

Ruth,

I'm a BH ... so my perspective is likely more in tune with your BH than with what you are experiencing, but to me a good portion of your problems seem SOOOO obvious.

Your BH wants SEX ... and not just any sex, he wants QUALITY SEXUAL FULFILLMENT FROM HIS WILLING W.

He WANTS you to WANT him!!!

You've even talked all around it in your posts ... why are you avoiding the OBVIOUS???

From your BH's perspective ... you have taken away his manhood ... the quantity of sex has been an ongoing problem for your BH throughout your relationship ... and THEN you just up and give it away to some stranger. All he wants is for you to give the same effort and enthusiasm to him that you gave to OM ... AND HE'S RIGHT.

TRY THIS (what have you got to lose?) ... TONIGHT, while he's on the computer ... get yourself ready THE WAY HE LIKES IT ... walk into the room with his favorite drink, etc. and TELL him just how much he means to you (Drop the ILY's ... tell him what you ADMIRE about him ... pump up his broken ego) and then SHOW him what he means to YOU ... right there. Be forceful AND enthusiastic. You've been with this guy for 8 years ... surely you know what turns him on ... JUST DO IT. MAKE HIM FEEL LIKE YOUR HUSBAND!!!

Now, if you continue to make excuses and just say that you can't be this bold ... then just get out of the way and give him the D that he wants. I still sense quite a bit of entitlement out of you ... this is no longer "All About Ruth" ... TONIGHT should be ALL about Ruth's BH.

Us guys just aren't very complicated.

I don't care if you're "in the mood" or not ... you've apparently picked up the fairly common trait of using sex as a treat for good behavior. You will learn that most BH's tolerance for "game playing" diminishes to near ZERO after they learn of their WW's infidelity.

I wouldn't say he's addicted, he's using it as an escape

he's not

I don't know. I just got off the phone with him after about an hour conversation and he was adamant he wants to take his ring off and date other people. I told him I was not giving up on our relationship and that I was not moving out of our marital home to facilitate him sleeping with other people. I told him I love him and I want to work on things. He said I had 8 months to do that and I didn't.

Ruth, I too am a BH and MyRevelation has given you the key to saving your marriage. I not only wanted SF with my FWW, I wanted the EFFORT she put into it with the OM (my brother).

She at first resisted, saying that it was "affair sex" and I shouldn't compare it with committed loving relationship sex. BUT I DID AND SO DOES YOUR HUSBAND!!!

Until you meet him WILLINGLY with the same ENTHUSIASM, CREATIVITY and LUST you gave the OM he will feel cheated. If you love your BH give him the feeling that his wife LOVES and DESIRES him MORE than you ever did the OM. He deserves AT LEAST as much effort as you gave your OM. Now show him that you do!!!

My wonderful, loving FWW is doing just that and it has made all the difference in the world. Our relationship is NOW better than it has ever been and it was at one time very good because we are taking care of each other. You MUST get the ball rolling and he will chime in when he sees that it is REAL.

You must however be real about wanting to recover and willing to do WHATEVER it takes to recover and I'm not just talking sexually. You must SHOW your husband HE IS THE ONE YOU WANT!!!

God bless.

Jim

Everything you say is totally correct. I haven't put the effort into SF that I know he needs like I should have. Nevertheless, I have made some efforts in that area. None of my efforts are ever recognized. I've gone to logging all our "encounters" otherwise he'd tell me that SF is zero in our relationship.

I don't think I view SF as a treat for good behavior however. SF has been a major issue in our relationship because my H has anger issues and he has a pattern of angry outbursts that he has blamed on me b/c of sacrifices he's made for me over the years. He has zero remorse for this pattern of behavior and thinks that anyone in his position would have acted similarly so its jusfified. I think this has been a major roadblock to emotional intimacy that would have helped me a lot over the years in having a better relationship in that department. But I know I've lost a lot of moral ground to take that position given my actions.

I'd love to try your idea tonight, but he told me he won't be there when I get home.

I know we men are so complicated...

This say's it all...

Men and Women

It appears from your response above that you read my words, but missed the message.

LET ME REPEAT ... this is no longer ... ALL ABOUT RUTH!!!

You can HAVE YOUR HUSBAND ... or ... HAVE YOUR WAY!!!

It's very simple and ENTIRELY up to you.

Read Jim Flint's reply to you for another perspective.

It appears that you have become very good at EXCUSES for why YOU don't want to do something.

As a BH, I can see EXACTLY why your BH is acting the way he is ... he's TIRED of your BULLSHI!T. He's TIRED of you disregarding HIS NEEDS. You can't change your BH ... just because YOU don't like his priority of NEEDS, doesn't mean that he should just suck it up and suppress his VALID needs because YOU don't feel like even trying to meet them.

QUIT BLAMESHIFTING ... which came first ... HIS angry outburts or YOUR withholding sex??? Does it really matter??? You can't change history ... you must play the cards in your hand RIGHT NOW.

Something has to give ... someone has to make a move. Your H is getting ready to make HIS move to Plan D ... are YOU going to make ANY MEANINGFUL effort to keep him???

ALL I'm hearing from you is self-pity and EXCUSES ... the only thing those will get you is DIVORCED ... most smart people realize that you can't keep doing the same things and expect different results.

TIME TO STEP OUTSIDE OF YOUR COMFORT ZONE!!!

Thank you, I needed that. You're right.