You're right... I could.

And my back has been bothering me... I think I slept on it wrong. It feels like it's out of place and needs to be popped.

This weekend was good.

Since my DD wrote me such a sincere heart felt apology I decided to reward her by letting her spend Saturday night at her friends house.

Saturday I took my girls Christmas shopping. Then dropped my daughter off at her friends house.

Sunday I got up early and went to church with my son and my other daughter. I picked my youngest daughter up at her friends house in the evening.

It was a quiet and relaxing weekend.

Amazin

I hate to tell you, Amazin, but you got played.

Teenagers are a shifty lot - my DD14 sounds much like your DD15.

Her apology sounded much like a wayward - "I'm sorry but......"

Fox

Even if she played me I think that's ok.

The main thing is that I change how I deal with her.

Remember what I said earlier? The thing that I was doing wrong was I was giving her positive re-enforcement for bad behaviour.

I need to give her negative re-enforcement for negative behavior and positive re-enforcment for good behavior.

I let her go to her friends house as a positive reward for the apology. And when I picked her up last night I explained why I let her go.

It's tough, Amazin, I know it's tough.

What she has now learned is she can act like a little snot (as my DD14 does), apologize and get back what was taken from her, take advantage of what was returned, then be a snot again because she doesn't WANT anything at the moment.

Then the cycle will begin again.

I'm not judging you as DD14 and I go rounds and rounds and rounds.

IMHO, you should make the original punishment stick - demand an apology but DO NOT give in on the original punishment. The original infraction still occurred.

The apology allows her to enjoy that benefit the NEXT time she wants it - provided she doesn't act in a way that should prohibit it be granted this time.

They need to figure out how to THINK before they ACT. Not ACT and then try to recover. KWIM?

AND! I would NEVER EVER NEVER allow her to leave your home while you two are in a disagreement. She is then able to shift the blame on YOU because as long as she is not with you she is "fine." She needs to take some responsibility and by letting her escape, you are not making her do that.

Also, don't EVER EVER EVER kick her out. I've BTDT - I was the child being shown the door. You brought her into this world and you should not have the right to back out of that commitment because it gets too hard. She didn't have a choice - you did.

You don't want her to run to WW? What do you expect her to do when she has been kicked out and feels unwanted? She'll find anyone who DOES want her. You're lucky it's WW and not some little punk ready to take advantage of the situation.

Fox

Yes it is. With three of them they’re wearing me out. I’m exhausted. Thank you for your compassion.


I talked about that with my parenting coach. Maybe I should have stuck to my guns and said “No” But she gave me the option. I decided to try and put a positive spin on DD’s decision to write me the apology. She did the right thing by writing the apology so I rewarded her. She’s been so stubborn that I’m amazed that she even wrote one.


Well I’m open to suggestions on how I can keep her from leaving the house every time she doesn’t get her way. I can’t physically force her to stay in the house. And every time we get in a disagreement she seems to want to run off. What would you suggest?


Again… When she say’s “I’m leaving” because she doesn’t like the rules…. What am I supposed to do?

BTW…. My computer here at work sucks. That’s why it takes me so long to respond.

Thanks in advance Fox,

Amazin.

I've been lucky so far. I have TWO teenagers but DD15 has a whole different personality and isn't nearly as "in your face" as DD14.

When she is in a good mood, you can't top her. She is so witty, funny and loving.

But when she is in a bad mood. WATCH OUT!! All those things that are so endearing when she is in a good mood are turned on you like weapons.

And she can jump between these moods over 1,000 times a day!!!

I sure get the exhausting part.

I'm going to look at the website you posted and consider a contract for both DDs. Might be a good idea. I tend to be a softie too and as soon as DD14 is apologetic and in a "good" mood, I want to please her so I don't have to deal with the bad mood.

That's why I see some of the manipulation in your DDs apology. I get them from DD14.


You would know best whether you felt true remorse from her and whether you should take the olive branch she offered.

I don't mean to imply that you are wrong - as I said, I'm still going rounds and rounds with DD14 so I'm not doing it just right either.

Maybe you did exactly right.....watch and see how it works. If you see a cycle begin, be aware and make further changes. Explain to her why the changes are being made. If it happens tell her that you feel she was only apologizing to get her way, which makes it not a true apology.

Sometimes I wonder how much of kids' behavior they are just BORN with and we just have to get through without trying to control every step........I don't know.

It's hard to know WHICH battles to pick. You certainly can't fight them ALL.


Luckily, I don't have this problem really, either. I live 20 miles out of town so if they leave they are in for a long walk. That may change once they start driving.

I'm dreading the day that DD14 says "fine! I'm going to live with my dad!" I am certain she will be the one to break my heart by saying this.

I can tell you.....she won't be going to live with her dad. Somehow (and I don't know how right now) we have to teach them how to DEAL with tough situations. Not run away.

In your case, I would suggest listing the consequences for her running off during a disagreement. Maybe allow her to remove herself (politely) from the conversation and go to her room. But she cannot leave the house. Maybe your parenting coach would have some ideas on what, specifically you could have as consequences. And explain to your DD WHY she cannot run off.

DO NOT let her threaten you with emancipation. That's ridiculous. If she wants to continue that line of thinking, sit down with her. Ask her where she will live, for how long, how much is it going to cost her, what about utiltities, how will she clothe herself, how will she get places, what will she eat, how will she cook it, how will she continue to go to school, tell her how difficult her future will be - how her options for high-paying jobs become limited because she is surviving on the minimum and won't be able to pursue a better life.


I don't remember....have you talked to a good counselor? They may have specific ideas.

At any rate, DO NOT tell her to get out unless you mean it. For life. And if you mean it, it won't be up to you WHO she goes to for help.

Her comment about the fact that you have 11 rules and she doesn't even get one - tells you that she thinks SHE is in control here. No, she doesn't get to make rules. SHE is the child here. - damn, does she sound like DD14.

I'm struggling right along with you, Amazin. You are doing EXCELLANT by asking for help and wanted to change what YOU do to contribute.

Just another thought.....I had a discussion with DDs this weekend about how it is my job to teach them how to live in the real world. You can bet that no one in real life is going to allow them to cuss and threaten and get their way. She won't be able to run off after a disagrement at work and expect to have her job for very long. Maybe explaining in regards to how she acts will effect her in the future will help get her brain working.

Maybe talk to the school counselor. Does she leave class every time the teacher does something she doesn't like? Who else deals with her that she DOESN'T run off from - find out how they make it work. - - and I don't mean WW. She runs their for a sympathetic ear, but you can bet if she actually LIVED there and didn't get her way she would have the same issues.

I'm working this out right along with you so please don't think I'm TELLING you what to do. It's just ideas......

Fox

O.K. I'm home where I can actully respond in a timely manner.

She was genuine in her apology. I could tell in her voice. It took a lot for her to come up with that apology letter.

She has been seeing a counselor for about a month or so. She has an appointment tomorrow. I really haven't been in the sessions yet. I would eventually like to but they haven't really invited me yet. When she's ready for me to be in there she'll ask me.


She wanted to get checked for ADD so I took her to a Doc. I don't really think she has it... The said the bottom line is... Is what she doing a choice of hers of hers or is it something that she can't help. She seems to think the adderol helps but I'm still undecided. I can't really tell.

As far as the emancipation... It's just a threat. She doesn't realize what is involved in getting emancipated. She thinks she can just make a phone call and that's it. It's not that easy. There has to be a legitemate reson. Like she's pregnant. Social services would have to get involved. Or she would have to retain a lawyer and petition the court. And then she would still have to have a good reason. Because I don't like dad's rules isn't going to fly.


I told her to leave because I was angry and frustrated... I know it was wrong.

One of the things I have been having a problem with is my anger and I think some of it stems from my bitterness toward my WW. I'm still really hurt. I was sooo in love with my wife when we first met and were married. This separation and affair has taken a toll on me.

When I talked to the youth pastor at church he said I'm kind of like a family dog that's wounded. Normally that dog is fine and you can pet him all the time. But if the dog has a wound on his back and you pet him he might bite you. Things that normally don't bother me... Do...

I also did something with my parenting coach last week that really helped. She said I give my power away too easily. She helped me understand what my core fears are. And that's what triggers my anger. I've heard other people here say something simular about giving away thier power. But I never understood it until last week.

'nuff said then. If it was sincere, take it.


That's good. You may have covered this already and I'm sorry if I'm making you repeat, but have you told her this? Even if she is not ready, knowing you are willing could go a long way.

My WxH wouldn't do it forh is DDs.....and they know it.


Good, I'm glad you are on top of that. It shows her struggle with trying to gain power over you and get control of her life that she feels is out of control.

She is desperately seeking a REASON.


Man, do I feel that.

I had encouraged DD14 to write down her feelings since it didn't seem that she felt she could talk to me. I was in her room looking for something else and came across a note that said "just because Dad is divorcing her she is going to take it out on me. She wants everyone to hate me as much as she does."

That just about killed me. I love her so much. I felt like I was failing her in making sure she knew that.

They are hurting, just like we are. That doesn't give any of us the right to lash out. And as I am teaching DD14, I am learning, too.

It gets easier. Really, it does. As my soul has calmed and is not so wounded, hers is doing the same.


Good. Recognition and awareness is a beginning.

Good luck. - and know that you are not alone.

Fox

My DD-15 and I had a talk last night. It was actually nice for her and I to talk like normal people. A good sign.

However, I think a little bit of that is her trying to manipulate me into not punishing her in the future. She said "She doesn't like it when I cut her off from society by not letting her use my cell phone or use my computer." One of the things I'm trying to teach her is resposibilty for her own actions. In real life you can't treat someone like crap then turn around and expect them to keep doing for you. That's reality.

Amazin.

Be careful about this. Adderall is a popular drug among young people these days. They crush it and snort it for faster effects. It was originally marketed it as a weight-loss drug but now it's primarily used for treating ADHD. I've read that a lot of the younger stars (Paris Hilton, etc) use it for weight control. It is an amphetimine. Some kids even sell their Adderall at school.

Do you monitor her use of this?

Just sayin...

Thanks for the heads up Meg.

I don't think she's snorting it. But I'll keep an eye on her use. I'm still undecided if it's helping. The Doc told me to experiment with different doses and observe her behavior. I'm still not sure if it's helping. I'm going to talk to her teachers and see if they've noticed a change.

Thanks again,

Amazin.

Well it's Friaday... yea! It looks like it's going to be a nasty day. There's sleet and freezing rain. But I feel good. I'm getting my confidance back. I'm not feeling depressed anymore. I'm feeling much stronger emotionally.

I've been trying to avoid driving by my WW's house just to keep the uglyness of the affair out of my face. She lives inbetween me and a major highway. And sometimes when I'm running late it's just easier to go that way. On Wednesday my daughter wanted me to take her to the youth group at church and I was running late... so... I drove by her house on the way to church.

Her dad is there. He's a snow bird and goes to Florida for the winter. Since we've lived here he usually stops on his way down. The unfortunate thing... The OM was there too. It kinda hurts. He stopped by my house last spring when he was passing through. He said how sorry he was that WW and I were split up. I didn't tell him about the affair at the time. He said he didn't want to be put in the middle of anything and wouldn't take sides. But what is said and what he does is two different things. Just him being in the same house with her and OM in my opinion is a stamp of approval. Oh well...

He does send me an email once in a while. It's usually nothing... something he forwards like the junk you get from all your friends and relitives. Nothing personal. He sent me an electronic christmas card a couple of weeks ago. It's the most that he's said in an email or anything since he stopped here last spring. It said he was praying for me and my family.

I'm thinking I might just call him and ask him to go to lunch with me since I'm off work today. (That would really piss my WW off if he went. LOL) But I don't think I will. It wouldnt' serve any purpose other than to piss her off.

My 15 Y.O. is about to give me a nervouse break down.

I got her report card for the second quarter. 3 F's and a D.

So... After I picked her up from church on Wednesday I told her I got her grades in the mail.

VENOM......cussing.... You can't make me get good grades.

Anyway... on to tonight ... she comes home gives me a note that is in no way a sincere apology then askes me if she can spend the night at her friends.... Nope...

She says... Well curfew is at 11 I'm leaving... I'll be back at 11... Then leaves.

So far I've been real good. I haven't blown my cool.

I had called my step daughter to see if she was there and asked her to call me back if she saw her.

So after she's been gone for a half hour I called the cops.

After I called the cops my daughter calls back and say's she's at WW's house and is going to stay there until she cools off.
I said no you're not you need to come home right now. And if you don't then I'm going to send the cops up there to get you. She say's F you D*ck head and hangs up.

A few minutes later my step daughter calls back and says that her grandfather who's visiting is going to bring her home.

When she gets home the cops are here waiting for her. She is just totally out of control....


GRRRRRR...

She's got me so worked up I'm shaking..... Lord help me....

Aw, man, Amazin.

Did you ask the cops for any recommendations on who might be able to help you with this or what other consequences are available.

Are they willing to keep tracking her down every time she takes off?

Is she intimidated by the cops or does she blow it off?

I think it is time you talk to her therapist. I don't imagine that he/she is getting the FULL story. I doubt DD15 is incriminating herself.

Something needs to scare the crapola out of her to maker her stop and think.

Ever consider talking her to a morgue? Showing her what happens to kids that get out of control and run around on their own?

Remember that this isn't a FOREVER thing. Just like when they were babies, they grow out of this phase and into another.

Hang in there.

Fox

The cop gave me a number to County Youth Services. He said they deal with un-governable teenagers all the time and to call them.
So I'm going to call them tomorrow.


They sure are. As a matter of fact he said call everytime she runs off.



She got mouthy with the cop and cussed at him. She's not intimidated. But she's not too smart either. She said something about emancipation. He told her strait up... at 15 you wont get emancipated. He said the youngest he's ever seen anyone get emancipated was 17.


I think it's a battle of wills. She is a strong willed child. I just can't let her wear me down. I have to keep calm cool and collective. Don't loose my temper or my composer. The calmer I stay ... the more she seems to act out.



Thank God! I don't think I could handle 3 more years of this.

Amazin,

Well, hindsight is always 20/20, but I have one like that. She is now an addict. If you've read any of my thread, you will know my story. WH and I were together when she was 15, but she was very much like your DD. Luckily, WH had some control over her, and there were times where I really thought he was going to knock her out. I also didn't think she would graduate from high school, but she did. I thought the worst was behind me then, but the worst was still yet to come. She did get a college degree, but what good is it now? Anyway, I think the only thing that saved her in high school was that she was one of the school soccer stars, and she liked the status that brought. How she made it through college, I'll never know. It took 7 years.

The bottom line is this...looking back, I honestly wished that I would have put her butt in military school. I just thought it was a "stage" that she would grow out of, so didn't consider it too strongly. A guy I knew recommeded the one in Indiana. His parents put him there as a teenager and he said it saved his life. At the time, I could never have imagined that at 27 years old she would be an addict basically living on the street.

I guess my message is - don't be afraid to take drastic measures to get her under control now while you still have parental rights. Once she is 18, there is nothing you can do.

That thought has crossed my mind. I may look into it.

She is just about to drive me nuts.

Oh I know. I remember those days. Unfortunately, they got worse, but that was after she was in her 20s and I had absolutely no control over it.

Just don't be afraid of Tough Love. She will thank you for it one day.....

Good luck...

Thanks for the encouragement.