Okay, okay. That's what I thought you guys would say. Maybe I was counting on you guys saying that.

It doesn't feel like a big deal to me right now, and it seems like the kids should have an opportunity to see their mother on Christmas. But I see that for me to give them that would be shielding the SCQ from her actions. She hasn't had to spend Christmas Eve and Christmas without her children yet. I should let her experience that.

I think I'm just in a really healthy groove right now and probably shouldn't mess with it.

Good plan, man.



Fox

Well, I'm glad you got 2x4'd before I got here because I was coming in with a freaking tree stump to whack your a$$ because that's what you are thinking with. Don't tell me that we quit using our brains after a D?

The big wake up for SCQ will be one day when her kids are spending Xmas with your new significant other. She hasn't had that experience yet.

Too late to the party with too little...

What the rest of 'em said...

Ditto!

:MerryChristmas:

Mark

Someone very smart once said something about what SHOULD be..


Ahh.. back to what IS..

Glad you're finding some peace, and good luck with the dating world my friend... There may be another amigo joining you in that venture here soon.

Sharing a pearl of wisdom I once heard:

Huh..... can you believe it? Everyone agrees.

It's okay, sdguy, we'll forgive you that little brain fart.

Fox

Thanks for all of the opinions. Like I said, they were not unexpected, and I was really just kind of thinking out loud, as it were.

I don't think what I was mulling over is as nutty as it sounds. I believe that friendly co-parenting, the kind that could result from non-infidelity-based divorce, is better for children. I think that there is plenty of research to back that up. I have always felt this way--that Plan B (and the kids seeing their parents not speaking to one another) is not the best thing for their development. Obviously, staying together would be best, but failing that my justification for Plan B was that it provided the best opportunity for reconciliation (which would lead back to the best situation for the kids).

The other reason to keep it up is to protect myself, and certainly the anger and hurt and outrage made it easier to keep that barrier up, but I'm just not feeling that right now. It's probably temporary, though, and that's the thing I shouldn't mess with.

I wasn't thinking "Gee, the kids and I don't have anything else to do, so I'll invite the SCQ to come and celebrate Christmas with us" but rather "We're not going to be so busy that if the SCQ wanted to drop by on Christmas Day to hug the kids and spend a little time with them, it wouldn't be okay."

Maybe it's an instinct borne from the generosity of the season, or maybe it's indifference or wanting what's best for the kids or having Let it Go or whatever. Or maybe it's just me. I have always known I would be able to forgive.

So, I don't think the concept is crazy. I do think that it's too soon. I don't want to mess with my streak of great mood. And I don't think that I should spare her from the consequences of her decisions, but that doesn't come from the kind of vengeful thinking that would have driven it six months ago.

I certainly understand everyone's reactions, though, and I appreciate the concern.

I understand where you are coming from and I do see your point. I guess most of us here who don't know her see her as a selfish witch, and we don't want to see you get hurt. If you can do it without hurting yourself, I guess go for it. I think when the BS finally gets to the point of not wanting the WS back anymore, it really doesn't matter. Why keep hurting the kids? Man, it's just hard to get over the fact that she hurt you and the kids so badly, and wasn't thinking of the three of you at any point. Part of me says why make it so easy for her....

I still think it's just a little too soon though......

Maybe next year, Huh?

Yanno Smiley.. you make a pretty convincing case.

Mostly because I've had this very same argument with myself time and time again.. and I know that evidence mounts on both sides depending on what stand you're taking and which direction you're looking at it from.

Here's the simple thing though.. and you can take this or leave it, but at least roll it over a few times in your head and see what you come up with..

Yeah.. it -still- shouldn't be this way.

Yeah.. the two of you should be able to get along 'for the sake of the children'

Yeah.. the past is in the past and nothing -you- can do can change that.

But what do you hope to accomplish here?

If, as you say.. your thought process is that you would be OK if SCQ showed up for Christmas because she wanted to spend time with the kids.. why not leave it at that?

IF she makes the effort and WANTS to be with her kids on Christmas, then by all means.. IF you are comfortable with her being there.. and the kids want her there with you.. then there's nothing wrong with that.

But I see rolling out the red carpet and making the invitation to be more of something that -you- haven't totally let go of yet.. and you can argue that point I'm sure.. if the peace you've received post D is anything like what I feel just a week later.. but IMO.. in MY situation.. If it's something -she- wants.. she'll ask for it, and you can make the decision that it's ok IF she does.. but don't let yourself get caught up in the WHAT IF game anymore.. it's no longer up to you to engineer ways to get her into your home and do her part to be a good mother. It's up to her.

It's not up to you to save her.. or show her the way out anymore Guy.. she knows.. she's chosen her path. Time for guys like you and I to embrace ours.


ETA: One last thing to consider.. and I'm really not trying to hammer the point home here.. just trying to look out for a guy I consider a good friend who has been through a lot of the same muck I've waded through..

Go back and read Bugsmom's thread from a few scant months ago.. shortly after the D is final.. starts to have regular interaction with Drac.. starts to consciously and unconsciously yearn for more of a 'fix' of him.. and in the end.. what was there but more frustration?

If she hasn't changed at all.. you're still in for a hurting if you get too close to her I'm afraid.. and I could be wrong.. and I hope I am if that's what you decide to do.. We've just all seen how easy it is to get sucked back into the drama..

Just some things to consider.

SD,

In case you are counting heads...

SCQ over for Xmas?

YES.....

NO......CHECK!

If you and SCQ are to develop a 'friendship', I would let it develop over a long period of time. Let it evolve on it's own, without pushing any agenda to safeguard your children from the consequences of divorce. You can CUSHION the blow, but you can never give them what they really want--for this to never have happened in the first place. They won't get back their innocence as they once had, even if you guys are 'buds'.

Just to be clear, I'm not going to invite her.

I'm going to note, like James suggested, that I think I could do it and say, Hmm, I think that's good. It's just too soon for anything else.

It really wasn't about keeping anything alive or getting a fix of her or anything like that. Indifference is at work. I can see now, however, (and could see when I was musing about it) that it would likely trigger a whole bunch of sadness for me.

There's really nothing to worry about--there is a zero percent chance that she will ask to come over.

As always, I appreciate everyone's opinions and the fact that you guys are concerned for me.

Got another date set up for Saturday. . . .

I was going to say: :twobyfour:

but James said it much better.


Don't kid yourself, Guy Smiley. It's not as easy as this statement makes it sound.

Remember who you are talking to......

We can smell BS bs a million miles away.

I can just about guarantee you that it is too soon and will cause you more anguish. Even if you could orchestrate it yourself so that she acts like a wonderful human being while she is there - even THAT will hurt you. You'll start to think again of what WAS and what COULD BE.

It's a nice thought from a generous heart but I don't think now is the time.



Fox

Now this is news we wanna hear about.


I got me one too.. next Saturday though.. maybe we found us a barrel?

Well-summarized, Fox. I think you're right.

Yeah, along the lines of what Foxy said, it bugs me a bit that the Z is so nicey nice, joking, laughing and such when I see him. Yeah, sure, that's how he is all the time, whatever. It still bugs me that he was stone cold when he was here. Now that he's freed from the TRAP, he can be his old gregarious self.

It doesn't HURT that he's like this, but it sure drives home how horrible he was to me. It's a reminder of many things evil and sad. So, every Sunday during the football season, I'd go home shaking my head.

It's not that I wish that he Z were sullen when I'm around, because that would prolly bother me, too. Honestly, I don't think he could win, happy/sad, good/bad. Being around him is a reminder oooooooof......oh, yeah, HIM.

and that's AFTER indifference set in, LONG after.

SD,


I wouldn't reinvent the wheel... looks like Fox knows what she's talking about...


...now this is more like it.

I've been going to a Divorce Care class at my church. One of the things I remember seeing in one of the video's is that children of divorced parents always hope and fantasize about their parents getting back together. It went on to say that a parent should be carful not to encourage this hope if it will never happen. Seeing you and x wifey celebrating Christmas together may plant that seed.

If your xWW wants to see the kids on chritstmas by all means you can negotiate something with her. But I wouldn't celebrate the holiday with her. Celebrate the holiday with your kids and make some good memories for them.

Might I suggest that you try starting some kind of new tradition on christmas. Something that you didn't do when you were married. It could be something as simple as baking cookies on Christmas eve.

t/j to Amazin,


Thanks for the info, Amazin...this makes sense.