My husband of 32 years and I are in counseling with Marriage Builders after he disclosed his affair in March 2008. He has chosen to sleep elsewhere since that time. No sex since Jan. of 2005 when I stopped initiating after he told me I was a control freak. He was busy developing an emotional affair then . It became physical in Aug of 2007 to Dec.2007. OW broke it off in Jan 2008. WH says he "loves" her and if I were not in the way, he would go after her.
Since disclosure I have learned that he does not love me, felt trapped marrying me (pregnancy), chose to stay in marriage even when given the option to leave after miscarriage one week after the wedding. Says he knew marriage would include sex, but he dreaded it with me. He spent the 28 years that we did have sex fantasizing me to be someone else, real or imagined in order to do it. Sex has been work, he says and mastrabation is easier. He has been to Everyman's Battle workshop and says he is now done with that. If he has sexual needs, he believes God will give him a wet dream. He told a counselor last winter that I am basically a housekeeper for him.
All this I have learned since D-day.
We have been working with MB coaching to meet each others most emotional needs, but despite the coach and my husband having to "convince" me to join the program, my husband is the one reluctantly going through the motions and letting things slide.
Our coach says we have to start to address this issue as it is an important EM and we need it for connectedness. So despite hoping we could develop feelings of love and then he would want sex with me, we are being asked to get going now, not "do" it, but begin to talk about it.
Last week in an attempt to get going, I asked him, "What do you want to do about my sexual needs?" He brought it up during our counseling and told our coach that he hasn't any ideas. If he gets anything, he'll ask me it I want to talk about it. He says he is trying to line himself up with what God wants. If God want us to have a sexless marriage, then what can go wrong?
He is happy to live that way.
As an aside, he told me that when he was physical with OW, he felt he broke our marriage covenant, made one with her and to engage with me would be "betraying" her.
Sometimes I think he is just waiting me out to give up or letting me meet all his domestic support needs while he repairs his relationship with his daughters, 17 and 24.
So has anyone had to deal with initiating talk about or actual sex with a someone in this state of mind?
Any suggestions?

Welcome. Well, hubby still sounds very foggy. I wonder if he isn't suffering from a midlife crisis.

He thinks he made a covenant with the OW and would be cheating on her with his wife? LOL - lots of waywards say that.

A couple questions - have you worked on not being "controlling" - of course that is often another fogism. But I hope you have worked on changing whatever he complained about.

And how is he as a husband in other areas? Does he meet your needs other than SF?

Does he still see the OW?

Who are you coaching with at MB? Did you go to a MB weekend?

Believer, thanks for posting. Hubby is 58 and has had a "crisis" his whole marriage as he revealed after the affair his true feelings about our marriage: doesn't want it, but was staying in it to honor the paper, but never entered the spirit of the covenant.
As far as controlling: my controlling consisted of taking up family responsibilities by default that he doesn't deal with because he didn't want to have to do anything with me or as a result of our marriage: ie pay bills, maintain cars, schedule medical and dental appts. (he just visited the dentist after 6 years), maintain our home and property, etc. It got down to him just asking for a list of what I wanted done -- he could rarely "see" the jobs and depended on me to see and plan them. If I reminded, I was nagging, if I complained a job wasn't done, I was critical, if I finally did it myself or had someone else do it, I was controlling. He Never planned a vacation "cause he didn't want to go on one with me. He is an avoider and very passive. Always asks, "what's the right answer? what do you want to hear? " kind of stuff.
Meeting other needs: provides for his family well,financial support, but has a staff of people to keep him organized and scheduled. He can't operate a computer and has others in charge of his business finances. Scary. Affection, admiration, sexual fullfillment,recreational companionship, openness and honesty, conversation, attractive spouse, family commitment: not interested. He chose to "endure" his marriage by not engaging. He doesn't talk, has a sleep disorder he won't follow treatment for and therefore is pretty much out of the picture after dinner and so his family gets little interaction with him. After 9 mos. of counseling, he still wants/needs to be told what to do. Give her a hug everyday and count to 10 before you let go. Call her during the day once, even if you don't want to talk and have nothing to say, etc. etc. All attempts eventually become less and less until they are extinguished. His heart isn't in it.

Melody Lane: we are working with Steve. He's busy telling my husband the same thing over and over. It will feel like the cart before the horse, but feelings will follow, failure is not an option, are you making progress? etc, etc.
We had a MB weekend in our area about a month after starting with Steve, but it conflicted with our high school's centennial celebration. Since I was on the committee that planned it for a year and was hosting my class reunion, we could not attend. My husband would have a hard time staying awake during a weekend of "talking" while he sat. We have read His/Her and I have read Surviving the Affair plus a ton of books on affairs, marriage, recovery, inner healing, etc.

He doesn't see OW, except in his mind and heart all day, everyday.

Yes, take the money you are spending on coaching and use it for a good lawyer.

You have had ZERO sex in about 4 years. Your husband only got through sex for all of those years by using fantasy of you screwing someone else...he sounds like a real keeper!

Look, years have already passed...how many more must be thrown away and wasted. He has had years to pull his head out of his rear and there it still stays. How many more years do you have left??? Do you really want to waste them on such a loser?


ding, ding, ding...RUN FAR AND FAST.

I agree with MEDC. Why in the world do you feel so unworthy as to stay all those years with this loser?

Look at how you feel about yourself please. What do you need and deserve in life?

It is not too late to dump him and develop a life for yourself and maybe meet a man someday who really does love you!

It sounds to me like he has used you to blame so that HE doesn't have to work on anything.

I would continue on with the Harleys, and start making a good life for YOU and the kids. Often when one person changes, the other will be forced to, because the dynamics are not the same.

If anyone can make a difference, the Harleys can. Then you will know that you did your absolute BEST.

Did his mother cater to him?

Two of you have encouraged me to exit my marriage and wonder why I stayed all these years.

First: I had not understood the true nature of the marriage until the affair was revealed and my husband got honest with me (perhaps hoping I would dump him and he could then with a clear conscience join his affair partner).

Second: I have attempted through the years to give opportunity for us to become closer with devotions, marriage seminars, counseling, etc. at my suggestion and arrangement. Now I know why none of those worked: I didn't have a partner equally invested in the marriage and wanting to engage on a deeper level. (He determined to "endure" the marriage from the beginning, not embrace it. Once again, I have only learned this in the past months.)

Third: It was my husband's philosophy to keep me "distracted" from the truth of his feelings towards me by keeping me busy with other things: fulltime teaching job, Victorian house restoration, infertility treatments to conceive children, foster-care licensing, adoption, homeschooling, etc. We gradually buildt a lifestyle of connecting only over family function and not in a marriage relationship. I recognized this and started talking about "after the children leave" what will we have and we need to start developing our relationship with each other more. No response. This was either just before or at the beginning of his emotional affair.

Fourth: I believe as a Christian that a covenant between husband, wife and God is until death, regardless of "feelings" and situations. Yes, I believe it should not be what my marriage is, but a reflection of Christ and His Bride, the Church. I do believe that even if my husband divorces me in a civil court of law, I am not able to marry again unless he is dead, according to scripture. Yes, I know all the arguments for remarriage even in the Christian world. The Adultery clause, was only given because the husbands of Israel asking for it had "hard hearts." I'm trying not to respond out of a hard heart. That is why we are working with Marriage Builders. Steve is working on my husband's logic line, I must work on creating the environment for my husband to fall in love with me by meeting his emotional needs and avoiding love busters, and disrespectful judgments. After 32 years, I'm willing to put a few more into actively working towards that end. This is the first time in all these years that my husband has been held accountable by someone strong and for any length of time.

Fifth: Throwing away 32 years of a family heritage is not something to lightly consider.

Sixth: My God is a God of redemption. I want my testimony to be that of how he redeemed my marriage from the pit. Before I married, before I knew I was pregnant, God told me I would marry this man. I feel that our human reactions, selfishness and pride have kept us from allowing God's perfect will to take place in our marriage. I'm desiring to see and experience His eternal purpose in this marriage and walk out our destiny in God's plan, which I know will be the greatest adventure for both of us.

These are the reasons I hold onto my efforts in this marriage.

As to how my husband's mother treated him: He was conceived as soon as possible after his mother's delivery of a still-born son. He was a replacement child. His mother was very protective when he was young. His sister and father were kept away from him. As he got older, however, his mother criticized him in front of her friends, warned him about embarrassing her and belitted him for clumsiness and poor manners. She also compared him to her friends' sons whom he felt he could not measure up to.

He became a silent, withdrawn, conflict - avoiding child who purposed not to talk to his parents. There was little communication (he was told children are to be seen and not heard), no discussions of feelings and emotions and no displays of affection. Today, his father is suprised at his friends' comments about how humorous and impressive his son is. He has never seen that in him because he has not seen his real son.

My husband spent a week intensive with a prayer counselor trained by Elijah House (John and Paula Sandford) for recognition of his childhood wounds and inner healing under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. This helped open his eyes, but changing 58 years of coping mechanism doesn't come over night. The process started him looking at himself. He wishes he knew more about human dynamics as a young man to have avoided getting himself in unwanted situations. Don't we all!

Thanks to all for your input. I am more than eager to hear further from you.

I understand about the covenant marriage.

How old are your children? Are they still in the home?

Children: 2 girls 24 - junior in college, she took time off to work, 17 senior in high school. 24 in Christian college, loves God, never has had a boyfriend, using this experience to search out things in her heart for God to deal with. wants to become the best marriage partner she can by maturing spiritually before she even meets anyone. Told me last night her dad doesn't talk to her much more than he talks with me. She confronted him with a letter about how his A affected her in her therapist's office and he apologized to her. But, she has pretty much given up on her parent's marriage.
17 refused to deal with it. Stuffed feelings, swears about OW, told me to leave him, don't stay together "for the sake of the children", deceived parents and family staying with while parents were at New Life Weekend for couples who experienced sexual betrayal, brought a boy into our empty home to lose her virginity, but did everything short of intercourse because they didn't have a condom. My husband doesn't see this as having relationship to his A. She is on antidepressants, but wants to go off and the Dr. says she can decide for herself although he recommends 6 mos. minimum. I believe she is sporatically using them (blew up tonight).She is adopted, rejected by birth father, rejected by my husband (found this out since disclosure) as he didn't want to parent another child with me after sabatoging our attempts at conception, but went along to avoid conflict. She has now felt rejected a third time as her father was willing to leave us for OW.

OW was brought into our home as a spiritual daughter to mentor, although now my H says he had feelings for her from the get go, but thought he could keep it to fathering. Ow was set-up as a "sister" to my girls. H abandoned the 3 of us to mentor OW and spend time with her. OW was mentoring 17 year old about sexual purity, warning her not to make the same mistake she did, promiscuity throughout teenage years. Upshot, both daughter's father and "sister" violated all they taught and they did it with each other. 17DD got a double whammy.
OW was part of our family, lived with us, worked in husband's business, attended our church and recreated with my husband as she could match his physical performance level which neither my 24 year old or I could, and my 17 year old didn't want to. OW is 26 years younger than me.

OW is 26 younger? YIKES! Sounds so much like a midlife crisis.

And the double betrayal is very hard to take.

You are in a good position to go to Plan B if you need to, so that you can guard your heart. See what the Harleys say.

But it does sound to me like hubby is rewriting the marital history, just like they all do.

I think you're a smart woman!

PS - get a pitbull attorney.

There is nothing quite as corrupt as a man who pretends to be a Chirstian, and has sex with a "spiritual daughter" he takes in to mentor. It is S-I-C-K!

Your daughters are feeling the brunt of the truth about your husband. You are still trying to be in denial about it.

God may have acknowledged that "you would marry that husband", but how do you know God actually APPROVED of the marriage? And, judging your husband's true character now, I would question why you "close your eyes to the truth" and continue to stay married to him.

No man as sick as him should be allowed to live with you and pretend Christianity and have sex with a young woman you took in and pretend to raise your daughters.

SICK!!!

" LEVELS OF CORRUPTION"

Level 1: Having an affair
Level 2: Child abuse
Level 3: Having an affair with a child
Level 4: Having an affair with someone who you mentor
Level 5: Having an affair with someone you take into your care
Level 6: Having an affair with person that you are a spiritual or Christian LEADER to.
Level 7: Murder.

As you can see, what your husband did is heinous. In every way.

where did this misordered list come from?

From me! You are welcome to reorder it as you see fit!

What I was getting at is that having an affair with some young person you are supposed to be a spiritual leader of is worse than a regular affair.

child abuse, in any form, is worse than ANY affair.