I have been thinking today about how much our society has changed in the area of accepting behaviors that were once looked upon as immoral and wrong.<P>I wonder what it would take to get adultery back up there in the ranks of something that is looked down on by society and those participating hang their heads in shame?<P>My personal preferance is the return of the scarlet letter. Yeah, I'm pretty old fashioned. <P>What methods do you think it would take to put a stop to the rise of infidelity and have it viewed as it once was in days gone by? Rather than the *oh well* stuff happens attitude many look at adultery with today.<P>Just Curious<P>Fingers Crossed

Hmmmm... Good discussion question. I'll have to do some thinkin' about this. Perhaps the scarlet letter is a bit too ... permanent?<P>------------------<BR>terri<BR>I believe in miracles...<P><BR>

Although I don't think one can make adultry illegal (unfortunately), I do think we can have a legitimate scartlet letter type system. <P>How? Well, adultry or even EA's highly impact a persons ability to function properly intellectually and rationally. It also shows very low integrity on the pursuers part. The pursued gets trapped with intoxication, and their professional life too is adversely impacted. <P>So, how about a system similar to a credit system - one where someone proven to be having an affair can be posted on the system. Employers could review this, and legally make hire/fire decisions from it because of the impact it has on work/integrity - both things an employer has a right to expect are the highest quality possible.<P>That would stop a lot of people. The consequenses would be just too great. But, you'd have to be sure before posting someone there - because your name would have to be listed as the poster, and if you are wrong you can be seriously sued.<P>SamH

Fingers Crossed,<P>Wow! What a good question.<P>Well,I don't think I have any answers, but I do think I know some one of the causes:<P>People are increasingly less willing to take responsibility for their own actions.<P>Every one ever arrested blames their crime on their parents, or where they grew up, or the crummy school they went to. Everyone is to blame but themselves. <P>The betrayer had to have the affair because their needs were not being met by the betrayed.<BR> <BR>It's so easy. Why take responsibility for your actions when you can just blame them on someone or something else.<P>How do you fix that? Don't know. Better parents, family values, church, etc?<P>Oh well that's my two cents! <P>

hehehehehe..... Just thought of another one.<P><BR>Bring fault back into divorce bigger and better than before.<P>You committ adultery you:<P>1) Loose custody of your children<P>2) You will pay spousal support untill your spouse remarries.<P>3) You are 100% responcible for the support of any children until they are 21 or no longer a full time student.<P>4)The innocent spouse gets all of the marrital possesions and monies. (including marital home)<P>5) The adulteror gets all the marrital debt.And naturally the need to work thier buns off to support the whole thing. <P>Along with this the Alienation of Affections law should be put back on the books in all the states. That way the OP will be less inclined to participate in an affair that could cost them everything they own.<P>I like this one as much as the scarlet letter. <P><BR>Fingers Crossed<P>

I've actually heard that, in some cultures, men have a "free" day during which they can have (safe) sex w/ as many willing women as they can find... This supposedly gets it out of their systems for the year. Having also heard that men are, by nature, polygamous, this almost sounds like a logical "solution" and much less painful to the wife than a sexual nee emotional affair with a specific woman. (PS Not to run a commercial for myself, but please see my "Like a Persistant Fungus" post; I'm messing up bad and need help fast; thanks!)

SamH,<BR>Actually, adultery is illegal in a few states, but prosecution for it is probably nil.

I'm all in favor of <B>Fingers Crossed</B>'s suggestion(Just thought of another one)<BR>... 200%... yep double it!<P>Jim

Sorry, boys and girls, but the employer 'blacklist' idea won't work. Nobody cares enough, or they know that they could be accused of same.<P>Look at our Philanderer-In-Chief. His employers (us) have had several opportunities to fire his sorry a$$, but we just pat him on the head and say, "Hey, what are interns for anyway?"

Who says society is any more accepting of "immoral" behavior than it once was? I don't even believe it is any more common.<P>I was reading some sort of a study on the topic a doctor had done in his area. Using blood tests, he determined something like 5 to 10% of the children under his care were not fathered by their apparent father. Now, that sounds pretty typical. Most people would think the number was a bit low. But he did this in the 60's in a white-collar neighborhood! One in 20 people you know doesn't know who their real father is. And that seems about as immoral as anything going on today, if you ask me.<P>I think all that happens is as you get older, you just get to experience first hand all the things your parents already know about but won't talk about.<P>I think the real big change is the divorce rate. The liberalization of divorce has drastically increased the number of divorces. But my guess is that has actually cut down on the, shall we say, "adultery rate". Now you can divorce your cheating bum husband or wife if you want. Before you needed proof, and that was very hard to get. Or if you are a cheater, you can divorce your partner to be with your lover. In the end that is probably much more fair than sneaking around until "death do us part."<P>I suppose that birth control has affected society in profound ways too. Now women can go to college and what not BEFORE they get pregnant. It's really changed women's ability to control their own life. Well, I suppose abstinence would have too, but how likely was that?<P>I think in some ways society is more moral now than it's ever been. I mean, people actually concerned about the fact that there won't be any more lions or elephants or maybe even whales in 50 years? Concern for the environment? Humane prisons? Animal rights? Medicare for everyone, regardless of there financial success? A social safety net for the poor? Conservation? Recycling? A movement to end the use of nuclear weapons and land mines? These are all "new" morals that society probably didn't have as strongly in the 50's as it does now, if at all. Sure we have a bit of pornography. Back then they had their mistresses and prostitutes.<P>But any way, my vote on the poll is "you can't legislate good character".<BR>

Fingers crossed,<P>You hit the nail on the head.<P>In most states no fault divorces are the norm. It matters not wht the cause. Fix that and watch things change!!!!

Your question answeres itself...<P>The "world" ie society has accepted adultry as acceptable behavior...<P>We as people within society, must stop<BR> co-signing adulterous behavior...<P>We as a society must eliminate moral "gray" areas...<P>We as a society must stop enabling our friends that are in the grips of infidelity by ending friendships w/those in an affair...<P><BR>How many of us, before we fell into our situations. Had friends in an affair and did nothing but turn the other cheek, for fear of loseing that friendship... I am ashamed to admitt it, I did...<P><BR>We as a society must place the value of a monogomous marriage just below our faith in God...<P>One man one woman becoming one...<P>We as a society must stop with our narcisistic ways...<P>This is redundant; we as a society must become selfless...<P>I believe if we could reverse the trend of imorality, adulters would once again become the decadent in our society, therefore making it something we would choose not to do.<P>caveat: in no way am I intending to offend my friends here that are betrayers. IMO you are some of the finest people its been my privlege to know.<P>Bill<P>Irish Blessing<P>May the roads rise to meet you,<BR>May the winds always be at your back,<BR>May the sun shine warm upon your face,<BR>The rains fall soft upon your fields,<BR>And until we meet again,<BR>May god hold you<BR>In the hollow of his hand.<P>------------------<BR>BB<BR>

It sure would have helped if something, anything, had been done with Clinton.<P>Now we watch Monica on diet commercials ....Imagine Hillary's pain.<P>How about a scarlett tatoo ?<P>Seriously, I think we're on a better track when the offender is somehow financially responsible, once convicted.

Hillary has no pain.<P>Shes mad because he almost got them evicted.<P>My opinion...<P>------------------<BR>BB<BR>

I don't know if there will ever be anything in our society that will deter adultery. But, there are countries that have zero drug problem because if you are caught with drugs, you are shot. Now, there's a deterrent. I bet if adultery was considered justifiable homicide, you'd see the rate immediately plummet!!

I know some of you want to blame it all on Clinton, but infidelity has been around long before Clinton. And anyone who thinks he got off "scot-free" ought to take another look. Here's a man, 50-some-odd, who's had a very successful presidency, and all he's going to be remembered for is Monica.<P>But I digress.<P>I don't think infidelity is any more "accepted" than it used to be, it's just become easier for those who betray to get a "no-fault" divorce.<P>Take a look at most movies involving a "grand passion" -- the kind of thing people mean when they say "I want that 'in-love' feeling." Go all the way back to the beginning of the film industry, and most great movie romances involve infidelity. But because the wife is played by the second-tier actress and the lover is played by Rita Hayworth, or Ingrid Bergman, or Kristin Scott-Thomas; or on the other hand, the husband is played by Paul Henried while the lover is Humphrey Bogart; well, they make it easy for the viewer to decide who they're rooting for.<P>I would love to see a movie where a long-married couple is still chasing each other around the kitchen table and tearing each other's clothes off.<P>I don't think there's more of it; it's just more up-front that it used to be.

I had to chime in on this one:<P>Pretty much all I see is "punishment" and it's societies fault...<P>You want to cut down on adultery?? Take a training course in "MarriageBuilders" as a requirement for marriage. Learn the skills. Have refresher courses. Positive reinforcement always works better...

I agree with Fingers Crossed. <P>If they want to play, make them pay!<P>Television and Newspapers can make a impact on our world. Reporters can make or break a story that can create socially accepted or rejected values. <P>I can "see" the front page story complete with pictures, with a caption something like this<P> "Adultery is motivation for movement from Park Avenue to Park Bench"<P>Addition: **************************<P>Ok, I can agree with the thought that we need to rise above our childish feelings and work on forgiveness. <P>If my H thought that his actions would be splashed on the front page for the world to see, I think he would change his actions.<P>I still feel the need to punish the guilty party. I'm not saying that anyone else should feel this way. This is how I feel and I can't honestly post any other feelings or I would be lying.<P>If the guilty spouse knew they were risking everything then maybe they would try to work on the marriage instead of transfering the affection to another person. <P>The old divorce laws required a reason to divorce, also a one year waiting (cooling off) time. Research has shown that most people regret the divorce within the first year and wish they had tried to save the marriage. <P>I'm not trashing the OW or OM. I don't put the blame on the OW. I think she is as much a victim as I am. I can't befriend her, but I don't want to hang her from the nearest tree either. That's a major improvement in my thinking, thanks to this board. <P>Maybe the guilty spouse can be considered a victim too. That's too deep a subject for me to delve into at this point in my life. <P><p>[This message has been edited by Keosha (edited January 26, 2000).]

We all want to find a way to "make them pay" for "what they did to us", but that's just not the way it works. It's not illegal. It's a personal matter. It's up to you to keep it out of your life or allow it in. If you don't want somebody cheating on you the answer is simple: Kick them out. It's all the recourse you need. Any good justice system is based on protecting the innocent and minimizing damages, not on punitive measures. So go ahead, protect yourself. It's your right. You don't have to tolerate this sort of behaviour.

Hey Guys, <P>I don't want to sound rude but if you remember there are adulterers on this board and I know that a few have been upset by this. Please try to think about their feelings. <P>We want them to feel welcome to post and learn and get support as much as we do. If we hurt them, they may leave. Then what has been accomplished?<P>Yes, my H is in the middle of an affair and I have hard feelings for the OW. But to say what I think her punishment should be here might hurt too many others. Should the ones who are here receive the same punishment you have recommended? I don't think so and I don't think you do either. <P>Again, my reason for posting this is not to anger anyone or offend anyone. We all need to stop and think about what was posted though.<P>Thanks,<BR>Mitzi