</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">why would a husband want his wife to feel that?
because he does not understand it, i guess.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What makes you think he WANTS her to feel like that?
Some of the posts here make me think that many people believe that their H are choosing to do porn because they know it hurts their wives.

The choice not to look at porn may be about his (I'm not talking about anyone in particular) W's feelings, but his choice to use porn doesn't necessarily have anything to do with her. It's his thing. It's private. I agree with Aeri that it is okay for a spouse to do some things alone. It's the reasoning behind that private time that should be explored. If he is dealing with a lack of SF, that should be addressed. If he is dealing with lack of attractiveness needs, that should be addressed. If he is dealing with H&O problems, that should be addressed. But, I really think that it is okay to do some things privately just because you prefer it that way. There are plenty of "girly" things that I do without his help. If he asked, I'd feel safe telling him, but it would be frustrating if he took it personally and thought I was trying to hurt him by keeping it private.

So, my point is that there is no reason to believe that Rink's H (or your's or mine) is looking at porn with any intentions of hurting her. There are deeper issues that need to be dealt with. The porn use is a behavior that acts as a symptom of something else...something that he may not even realize is bothering him or affecting his behavior. Because it has an effect on Rink, she should really focus on discovering what the root of the problem is. She's going to have to create an ultra safe environment for him to come forward and feel comfortable being honest about it...and that could take a lot of time and patience. I vote that Rink gets some professional counseling on this one.

Smile

as mine was different.

and why?
because we never talked about it or set any boundries. so,i know i have said this to you before.....i think it is wonderful that you and 5x are doing all this now.

i believe it's the same thing w/ Aeri.
she accepted it even though she grew up in a household that viewed it as deplorable.
why? because she was open minded and had a partner who would discuss things w/ her. i think she missed my point before when i mentioned educational sex movies.....i was actually trying to ask.....why do people think they are more acceptable than all other porn? even though they show naked bodies having sex?
and they can be helpful to a relationship.

my thinking is women can eaccept them better because they do not depict women poorly or sub-servient to the man.....or ridiculously perfect?

i am not trying to get you to admit you have a problem w/ porn.if that is what you were thinking.
remember..i like to work thru my issues outloud and that is all i am trying to do here.
i respect your right to your own opinion.
and aeri's too.

<small>[ October 13, 2003, 05:26 PM: Message edited by: nelly ]</small>

i must not be making my posts clear.......i didn't say he would want her to feel that....i actually as saying something more to the effect of.......most husbands would never want thier wifes to FEEL that way......they must not understand that that is what she is feeling.

i feel like you are doing to me what you hate when others to do you.
assuming you understand what i am trying to say..
please ask me, if i am not clear to you.
don't post my posts and attach your feelings to them.....please.
it makes me feel attacked....and i am only trying to have a discussion.

get to the root of the problem.
discuss it.

that is the point i have been making all day!

Nelly,
I never got the feeling that you were trying to get me to admit anything or try to make me suddenly reject porn. I really appreciate your non-judgmental approach.

So, why do some women find "educational" sex films acceptable, but the rest deplorable? I think the major issue is the overall stigma. Porn is bad. Someone convinced a bunch of women that "educational" sex films are not the same thing as porn. They are presented very differently, but you're still watching strangers having sex. You're bringing something else into your marriage. You're getting turned on by the actions. Whose to say your H wouldn't get his kicks from those films? I actually think that the "educational" films I've seen are just boring pornography.

It's the culture, the media, your parents, your friends...it's a bundle of different influences that has left you feeling that way. Why don't you list the things you see as significant differences between the two types of films, including attractiveness, positions, oral sex, pain, creativity, climax, etc.? Maybe after you do that, you can start to single out the specific differences that bother you.

Smile

smile...
you are going to laugh at me now...and that's just fine.

i have never seen an educational sex film.
i was just trying to bring up another point for discussion.

i have only seen easy access typical porn. internet porn...a few playboys....soft-porn movies on cinemax....a few glimpses of hard core movies. i tried to watch a woman's porn movie once and thought it was ridiculous. far too sweet and romantic for my tastes.

i have analyzed and realize everything that bothers me about porn and am still working out the whys.
and i am trying to encourage others to do that.

the main thing right now.........for me...it's a trigger.....a hot button.
it provokes thoughts of times that my husband was dishonest w/ me and very shut down to me and my needs....SF and others.
but i realize now....it's because he didn't know.
because we never talked about this stuff.

<small>[ October 14, 2003, 06:22 AM: Message edited by: nelly ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">i feel like you are doing to me what you hate when others to do you.
assuming you understand what i am trying to say..
please ask me, if i am not clear to you.
don't post my posts and attach your feelings to them.....please.
it makes me feel attacked....and i am only trying to have a discussion. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't feel like I'm attacking you. I'm sorry you feel that way. What I hate about some of the other posts is not that they misinterpret me...that's just a frustrating part of discussion forums that we all have to deal with...so is attaching one's feelings and thoughts to what others have to say. What I hate is when people tell me what I should be thinking and feeling. I hate when they tell me that I'm trying to manipulate my future husband. I hate when they judge me and tell me I'm a troll because of my feelings. I hate when I'm directly insulted. I hate when people quote me on something that is very old and that is no longer relevant or true. I hate when people quote me with the clear intent to make me look bad. I have never done anything like that to you that I know of.

I simply misinterpreted what you were saying. That happens to me 30% of the time I post. That's MY problem. I need to communicate more clearly...and yes, that is frustrating that people cannot just understand my intentions and thoughts. I didn't ask you to clarify because I thought I understood what you were saying. I wasn't insulting you for what I thought you were saying or saying there was something wrong with you, I was just commenting on it. You're lashing out at the wrong person. I am only trying to share my feelings with the hopes they will be helpful somehow and also because by sharing them, I understand my stance better and better. I'm just as frustrated that you think I'm attacking you. I also feel like I'm hitting my head against a wall with this "discussion".

Smile

this is getting silly. i think we keep answering to eachothers posts before we read the next one.
i didn't mean to sound like i was lashing out at you.....and i agree w/ you about trying to communicate online.

i have got to run now....
talk to you again soon.

Thank you all for your sincere posts. What a can of worms this realization has opened up in my seemingly happy marriage. One day I felt so happy and the next I'm looking at counseling to bring out my H potential deep-rooted problems and try to figure out how I can get over this pain and hurt to create an environment where he feels he can talk to me unconditionally. What do I do when, as he has already, he keeps denying there is a problem other than lack of good judgement?

If he is sneaking and lying to me about using porn, something he knows I am somewhat open-minded about within certain boundaries, is it possible that he is lying about other things as well?

hi rink,
i remeber feeling the same way you mention. if he could lie to me about this, could he could be lying to me about anything?
sometimes i felt paranoid.
one thing to remember.....lies stem from fear?
what could he be afraid of? maybe he is ashamed that he feels the need to still look at the porn since you are married.
maybe he doesn't even know why he is feeling that need, and he is afraid it means something is wrong w/ your marriage...and that scares him.
i know how hard it is, but my best advice is to be gentle and patient and make him fell safe enough to open up to you.
try hard to not accuse and all wrapped up in your own feelings.
that was my mistake, and i think that is the reason it took him so long to TALK to me.

<small>[ October 14, 2003, 05:43 AM: Message edited by: nelly ]</small>

My situation is this and why I have my feelings...I may be the opposite of most couples..I came into the relationship with more sex drive than my husband (and probably experience - oooh)..I like sex, no I love sex..so for the longest time it didn't happen unless I initiated it, then to entice him I would put on lingerie etc., only to be told "get dressed" b/c he wasn't interested...but wait when he discovered how well I give head, all of sudden he wanted that all the time...eventually got to a point I never get satisfied and he preferred my mouth over anything else..here I am one of the biggest nymphos and I have little to no interest in sex now..it's tiring always being the one doing the work to get nothing out of it..and gets boring...Yes I think I am more experienced and mature about sex but he just seems to get embarassed if I even try to talk or show him or ask him for something..nonetheless...at first it was the issue of him "choosing" to do the porn thing vs. real sex with me...then it changed as I wanted it less, to "at least I don't have to do it, saves me the damn trouble"...now I don't care, the buck stops here, I am tired of being neglected, I am tired of us being a married couple that has sex separately (masterbation), I am tired of feeling no desire from him. How can a man concentrate, learn and know how to please his W if all he does is concentrate on pleasing himself when she is not around? So yes maybe it is a competition for his attention thing??? As for the perfection thing with porn, I am not intimidated by the "unrealism" of these women, I am more attractive than most women and it's just a shame that men other than my H tell me how beautiful I am on a daily basis...strangers...the honks, the whistles, the winks...I get it all..so my issue is not a security thing! Not to mention, these men including my H are not perfect themselves and quite frankly these beautiful women who pose for porn would probably be disgusted if they even took a moment to think of all the "trolls" out there ogling at them. Women in general feel the need or feel the push rather to be somewhat perfect for their H but it sure doesn't go the other way does it..these men think they are all that and most women would not look twice at them..so wives don't worry about someone stealing your man..just look at them on occasion and see the real "dork" in them other women see to shoot down their irrepressable self image ego's. It is us women who give these men their power, for nothing! And yes all of this porn stuf pisses me off it you can't tell!

Dgmiss, sounds like you are a little angry, resentful and not getting enough sex? But this post is about if you feel uncomfortable about porn use, and you did include it...But..why not start a post yourself, and get people to give you ideas as to what to do to help out your situation. You will at least be comforted to know that there will be others who will respond-women- with your same feelings about sex and maybe get some ideas on how to change your situation for the better.

If we do things differently, we do get changes. It can make things better. How about that?

Adding on here;

This is actually the problem however. Porn usage and-sex alone, and letting things go with the spouse. It is a one man activity in the problematic cases of porn users. And how frustrating to try to figure this out.

And it is kept hidden and it is selfish, and it does not a bit of good in the marriage.

And how should that make a person feel who is being excluded from this private excitement.? Mistrusting is one thing that comes to mind. Hurt, neglected, rejected.

I think we could live better with less to no porn use.

<small>[ October 14, 2003, 01:11 PM: Message edited by: WFLOWER ]</small>

Thanks, well put, I couldn't have said it better. Especially the "selfish" part. I did start my own topic and SmileADay referred me to this topic. Yes, I am angry, good observation.

I think that in these cases where there is little to no mutual sex happening between a couple it is surely time to meet up with the marriage counselor. It will help him to see how much of a problem this is for you and it will help you both to talk out your feelings in a non-threatening environment.

A lot of these kinds of stories keep making me think a desire to minimize intimacy problem with the man getting off on only the fantasy.

And why does one do that? Fear of rejection, or not feeling that they measure up and can do it easier without risking judgement. It assures themselve, but is cutting you out of this equation at the same time.

So often, it sounds like the man loves his wife, but something integral is missing. Security seems to come up alot with this topic.