SD:

Silent said:


Both you understand that you have been freed from the TRAP as well?

You can be happy around these horrible people as well.

They didn't set OUT to HURT you. But they did. Horribly. And your children. And they are OK with that.

You don't have to be.

But your free from the trap as well.

Much freer.

Happy Holidays!

LG

SD,

Well, seems I am late to the discussion,,,,,,,,,,AGAIN! Although it's gone as I would expect on all sides.

I can totally understand what you, and everyone else has had to say. It really has been a good exchange.

I don't have a lot to add, but you know I just HAVE to add SOMETHING!

You are one of the most generous & kind hearted men that I've ever known. Despite the incredible amount of pain the SCQ has caused you, you remain kind, loving, generous & giving. THAT can be a problem as you manuver through figuring out life post D. Not just with the SCQ, but in many areas.

Just a word of caution, my friend. Take care. I worry about you, ya know?!

I'll leave it at that for now.

I'm glad you have nixed the invite idea. It is a bad idea,,right now. Maybe someday,,,,,,,,,,,,,in a galaxy far, far, away! Just kidding. Maybe someday it will work for you to have that kind of R with her. Just not yet.

Hoping your date tonight goes well! You know we are all dying to hear the details, so check back soon!!

Thanks, LG. I think that this is what I am starting to figure out and anticipate. The others are right, though, in that it's too soon for me to be acting on this. It'll come in its own time.

It's always great to get BugBombed and know that people are looking out for me. Occasionally I think about being a nice guy and where they finish (James talked about this at one point), but not very often.

For the date yesterday, we met and took a walk by the ocean. We had talked a couple of times on the phone but hadn't met in person, and we had a nice time. It was nice and clear, and the sun felt really good.

We talked about lots of different things. She's smart, quick-witted, and attractive, and she has a lot of the traits I see in (and like about) myself.

We were talking about dating on Match, and she commented on how it's kind of strange. That when you just meet someone in regular life and become interested in them but don't know anything about their situation (whether they're single, whether they're dating, etc). With Match, it's the other way around--you know the person is looking, but you don't know whether there will be any chemistry. I had a good enough time to try another date, but I can't say that I felt much in the way of chemistry. I dunno.

Now it's time for the Holidays. Split-squad tomorrow and Tuesday, and then I have the kids through the weekend. A little more shopping today. And football. And rest.

Hope everyone's weekend is going well.

Oh, a DATE! How exciting!

I really like Match because you will get back into the swing of things without having to get too serious. I joined before I got married to my ex. I met some WONDERFUL guys and am still in contact with 2 of them. I probably went out with about 20 and had LOTS of fun.

It turned out I didn't marry any of them, but it was well worth the experience.

I'm laughing about the no chemistry thing. There was a guy named Brett here from Idaho, and his friend fixed him up with a chick after his unwanted divorce. He said the same thing, no chemistry. But then one day they were eating hot dogs and playing a game of pool, and she was talking about her grandfather, and he fell madly in love, just like that. And they got married.

However, a caveat, take your time, date lots of women (They say it is like selling a house, about 15 qualified buyers have to do a walk-thru before the house sells, same thing with dating).

Look at it as practice. Chances are excellent that you will find someone special withing 18 months, so enjoy playing the field.

Personally, I believe that friendship should come first. WH and I were good friends as teenagers before we fell madly in love and ended up getting M. Ok, I know the ending but we did last 35 years which is longer than many M I know. We were always best friends.

SD, I don't post to you very often because you get the most amazing advice from so many people.

I'm happy that you are looking outside the box and meeting someone, with possibly others. I have come to believe that G-d has your plan already worked out. Let him guide you in your walk with any new R and you won't go wrong.

Lord knows you will come here, post about it and everyone will keep you on your toes and aware, but we simply don't know what G-d has planned. Mimi always told me, HEAD UP, CHEST OUT, and I added SMILE ON AND HEART OPEN.

You are absolutely one of the nicest and incredible men I have ever met, well online at least. You will be given a partner in life if you want it and G-ds plan is that for you.

Enjoy the journey of new R's, enjoy the journey about learning what you want and like and above all else, with G-d in your heart, trust yourself to hear his message when he gives it.

Hello SD!
i do not offer much advice, but I will now!

If you go on a date, I would advise that NO MATTER how many questions your date may ask about your D, that you not talk much about it... because they are just testing to see if you are over your M or not... if you talk too much about it... it is a RED FLAG for them. Even if they SEEM receptive.

And, on a different note .... I have always had my now exh over on Christmas Day to see the kids open gifts. Why? Because my kids love him, he is a good dad to them, and Christmas is about love. He watches them open gifts, he brings over gifts, my girls give them cookies that they made (with a little help from their mom ) and it is fine.

In fact, it is good for ALL of us. My kids see their dad, I see them happy, he is pleasant, I am pleasant, and it could not get any better than that! It IS Christmas for heaven's sake!

I am at the indifferent stage, and it makes for GREAT co-parenting. You seem to be there too. There is nothing wrong with her seeing the kids on Christmas. JMHO.

You seem well! That is good!

SD,

I think Sadmo makes a great point.

She also says...


I guess the question, SD, is ....are you there yet?

What will happen when one of the parents remarries or has a significant other?

The children will/could blame one of the parents partners that the other parent is no longer coming over on holidays.

I think it causes too much confusion for the children. The "lets all play nice" tactic completely undermines the pain and anguish the BS went through.

I don't believe that anyone can ever be so indifferent after infidelity that this type of scenario would be healthy.

JMHO.


SCQ is still with WonderBoy.........

Fox

Hi SD,

..got my answer on Bugs' thread...


...and I am realizing that although I appreciate and I am happy for Sadmo that she is able to do what she does and have WxS over for Xmas.... and I respect the fact that it's something you want to be able to do someday, SD...

...but for now, I am leaning towards Fox's line of thinking...


...especially when the 'significant other' of WxS is the original OP! Ooops! Sorry for the mess on your tie, SD!
Couldn't help it...

Thanks, luna.

Part of my line of thinking comes from the theory that sacrifice builds resentment.

I don't see any way that the BS could NOT be sacrificing when it comes to this type of thing. The BS continues to give and the Wayward continues to take.

That cycle must be broken. IMHO.

I am not completely convinced that it would truly benefit the children, either. For the MOMENT, maybe it would. But what about the longer lasting effects?

Fox

I don't think I would do it if it felt like sacrificing (not that I'm going to do it at all this year). Fox, I think that eventually we will get to a place where we just don't care so much (indifference). Where we have truly let go of all of the anger and hurt and maybe even forgiven them (whether they ask for it or not). I don't think any of us Bees are there yet, but Sadmo is, and LG chimed in to point out the possibilities.

I think it will come, but I'm not ready for it yet.

Sadmo, thanks for stopping by. Sometimes I toss out ideas that aren't fully baked knowing that it will generate some interesting discussion (which will hopefully be useful to someone or at least entertaining). This time I knew that my amigos would wail away at me, but I also thought "I wonder if Sadmo will have anything to say about this." So, again, thanks for stopping by and sharing your thoughts.

And thanks for the dating tip, too. I expect I blew that one (talking too much about the D) despite my intentions. It's a fine line--on one hand I feel that they deserve to know and that the story doesn't make me look bad, at the same time I understand the risk of talking about it.

Thanks, B, for the thoughts about Match. Obviously, I'm still trying to figure it out, but the encouragement is appreciated. So I'm thinking that you can't assess chemistry on the first date--the first date is to find out whether the person looks anything like their pictures or is a total psycho or smells funny or stuff like that. With this last date, we had similar points of view on lots of different things (*You* feel that way about X?; that's how *I* feel about it), so I think it's positive.

Thanks Queenie and Luna and everyone else that stopped by. My sympathies to those of you affected by the big cold weather system. I'm sure it's not much consolation, but today here it's "lousy," gray and drizzly and a high in the low 50s--the kind of weather that will have the natives dropping like flies if it continues for more than two days.

Hi SD,


Just for discussion purposes then, SD... you would like this to happen one day because.....?

Because I think it is better for my kids. As much as we may despise the words, I think friendly co-parenting is better for children's development (especially the little ones). Admittedly, I haven't read as much about this as I should, but I'm pretty sure that this is what the research says.

Yours are different, Luna. Your kids are old enough that things are different, but my kids are 5 and 9. My daughter doesn't understand any of this. I shudder to think what she's learning, but if she were to ask me one day why Mommy couldn't come over and visit on Christmas, and the real reason why is that her mother did something so monstrously bad that I can't stand to be in the same room with her . . . well, how does that help my daughter?

The SCQ is the only mother she will ever have. Does it really help a five-year old to know that her mother is capable of hurting someone she loved so badly? She already has fear of being alone that I think extends beyond what is normal. Better, I think, to teach the kids that that people make mistakes, that it is okay to make mistakes, and that there is such a thing as forgiveness.

This, like dating and everything else, is something that I'm feeling my way through, so maybe I'll change my mind tomorrow or next month, but that's the way I'm thinking about it right now.

Any idea what Dr. H says?

I firmly believe it would be a sacrifice whether you admit it or not. Now, if WonderBoy was out of the picture and SCQ had made some sort of amends, I may think differently.

However, I am also aware that you tend to be softer in this area than I am.

I don't back down from a stand unless I have some pretty darn good evidence why I should.

I have yet to see the evidence.

It's all good, sdguy, this is your life, you get to make the choices whether we think differently or not.

Fox

Hi SD,


...this still doesn't resolve the issue, SD, if in any way there still is an element of 'sacrificing', as Fox points out, that would 'filter through', and cancel out any of the benefits you mention.

...unless of course, as Sadmom points out, you were to reach a point of such 'indifference', which is not impossible, that it would NOT be sacrificing... (with no risk resentement long-term)

A new guideline I am trying out (when I remember!) is to test and see how far I can use the rules of POJA....not with a partner... but with myself... with decisions where I DO have a choice, or I intend to be the initiator.

Let me tell you, so far, a lot of ideas get 'canned' because I do not reach an 'enthusiastic' agreement from all the elements 'within' :RollieEyes:

...however, I have learned to never say 'never'... in some cases, with the passage of time (even a few days later), a new experience, different people, new elements.... the 'enthusiasm' sometimes can surface.... (but this could also take years...or... never!)

Not specifically, no.

I asked Jennifer once when does it becomes appropriate to drop Plan B. I think I've mentioned this before, but her answer was that the Plan B can go on forever, and that the main reason for it is to protect your *next* relationship.

Your former spouse will always be a threat (just like the affair partner is) to a future relationship, so anything you do with the former spouse should be completely transparent to the new partner.

It would be interesting to get their opinion on the specific question "Once you're Done (or even close to it), is it better for the kids to do the friendly co-parent thing?"

There's a part of me that wants to hold out until POSOM is gone and the SCQ has had some kind of awakening, but like I've said, even that is less urgent as I continue to feel good. Plus, I don't see it happening.

Where I've gotten to on Everything is that POSOM is one of these predator type guys--a Bad Guy. He used up his wife and then found someone else to use. The SCQ has a caretaker personality and tends toward being weak and passive. It will take something huge for her to Figure It Out, and even if she ever breaks away from him, I don't see her having the strength to do any kind of introspection and ultimately take responsibility for anything or own anything herself. Maybe she will prove me wrong, but I'm not going to hold out for anything.

I could force the matter, I suppose, like LilSis did. Go and confront her and say "You know what you did is wrong, right?" and she would probably splutter and ultimately admit that it was wrong and maybe even say that she is sorry. I mean, I think she knows that, but what good would it do? Can she ever possibly say a big enough I'm sorry to cover what she did?

Your kids are older, Foxy. Like Luna's. It's a different dynamic, I think.

And I'm not advocating anything for anyone else, just thinking out loud (as it were).

Yeah, I'm sure that there are some grudges I should be holding against people, but after a point it takes energy to keep that going, and I have better things to do with my energy. Forgiving and empathetic are traits that I like about myself, so I don't really mind if people think that I'm a pushover.

Or maybe it's just that I'm medicated.

That is NOT what I said.




ETA:
Yes, they are older NOW. But they were once the same ages as yours - I haven't lost all brain cells just because I have to deal with teenagers, ya know.

I think I would have been WORSE if this had happened while my DDs were young. I would have made more decisions
FOR them. As it is, I allow them their own opinions, trusting that the foundation is set for the most part.

You are still setting the foundation.


Fox

No, no, I know that. I was just kind of extending the thought on the risks of being too nice/forgiving/accomodating.

Howdy Guy Smiley!

Looks like a lot of activity continues on the subject of pleasant co-parenting. Like I said before, I think you should just let your relationship with your exW unfold on it's own, over time. Don't go in with an agenda to make nicey nice so the kids don't suffer; you could actually cause more suffering when/if things change on either side.


IMO, the best thing you can do for them now is to continue to work a good schedule for visitation out so that they get as much as they can out of it. They will never get all they want again, since you are divorced. It's a cold, hard fact. You cannot make it right, ever again.

Let the rest happen as you go.