Hi LUNA,

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{ Luna }}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

I can ABSOLUTELY ATTEST TO THIS......

Update.

Is everybody sitting down?

I am not sure if it's to make up for all the self-pity that I was in a week ago...

But last night a whole new feeling came over me:

I felt...courageous....fearless...ready to stand up for myself....detached enough not to care what WS thought...

...and wanting to work with WHAT IS.... I came to the realization that were I be able to TAKE ON the BS (as in b-u-l-l-s-h-i-t) that could come out of a waywards mouth and see it for what it was .... I would be way ahead of the game by directly 'discussing matters' with WS!

Remember, in my case, WS is not 'indifferent' and DOES want to talk to me.... (only I was not able to do so before)

So, yes, ladies and gentlemen....for all the fear I have felt...for the moment, the scale has been tipped to the opposite end of the pole!

....and yes, I am ready for the 'other shoe to drop' and you know what, I DON'T CARE...because whatever it is ....I NOW KNOW THAT WILL BE ABLE TO HANDLE IT!

...this is Luna as she WAS...a long time ago.... and the Luna WS 'fell in love with'.... I am rediscovering HER....and I do feel....invincible...

My 'chipping away' at the mountain climb seems to have reached the peak....

I HAVE reached the place where I can honestly say that, should WS want to work on M recovery, I am ready to take it head on.... and IF NOT, LUNA W-I-L-L B-E F-I-N-E!

...and yes, LAST NIGHT... I felt like I was on a mission and decided to take on WS...HEAD ON!.... called him up....and totally 'shocked' WS!

Did my 'speal' about where I stood as far as separating assets was...and although I did not have the answers nor the solution....I did have questions, and proceeded to list same..... Should WS want a dialogue over matters....I would be open to do so....if he was ready to RESPECT boundaries to not discuss matters of the HEART!

...and yes, WS did not disappoint me... after so long, WS did take the opportunity to again justify his wayward actions, need to move on bla bla bla.... I just listened, in total control of myself.....when WS was finished....dead silence... gave time for WS to answer HIMSELF..... "uhmmmm...guess it's easier said than done!'....

I just said....'that's right, WS'....and that was not a subject I was going to discuss as we were at the 'opposite end of the scale' on matters of the HEART..and that 'I' would DEAL with my emotional scars!

After a good 15-20 mins I advised WS that I needed to end our conversation....and proceeded to do so.

I don't know WHAT I will decide to do next.... I will wait and see... but the wanting to STAND UP FOR MYSELF... is still very very strong today!

...and I haven't got a clue what's happening...but I am not 'missing a beat'...tick for tack with WS....and if not, I ask to end the conversation....because...I CAN!

and ready for the Dr. Philism of....'don't let the door kick your butt on the way out' attitude!

...WITHOUT FAKING IT!

The sense of empowerment I seem to have reached makes it worth all the waiting...and I do hope it lasts!

....and should WS choose to NOT want to speak to me....I am FINE with that, too....his LOSS!

(hehehehhheeeehe....and I can't help but wonder how WS's conversation with OP went after my call!..... the roles seem to have been reversed.... OP is now dealing with grind of daily routine with WS... and, to top it off, after so long, BS is choosing to be back in WS's life? This is where I really wish I was a fly on the wall and see how WS explained himself away with OP....will OP doubt him? You bet....she knows how much WS can lie...saw doing IT to ME!....and knows can't trust WHAT he says! ....as at this point, I really don't have that much to lose and everything to gain.

Oh G-D....please let me stay this course.... I really really like it!

Is this what some of you call....taking your power back!

Oh man....bring it on...B - R - I - N - G IT ON!

Better quit here while I am ahead.

Hooray for you, luna! THAT is exactly what I was hoping for you.

That strength is within every one of us....we just have to find the way to tap into it.

You go, girl!


Fox

Yep, Luna, that's exactly what I've been wanting to see.

Keep it up! I'm really proud of you.

Oh my Luna. It wasn't a Plan FU was it? Whatever it was - YOU GO GIRL!!!

Keep up the good work!

Thanks for the support guys,

I am really just trying out and follow the example of what I see some of you already doing with WSs and WxS...the likes of Fox, Bugs, Cind...

I know I should probably wait post-D....but, if I can create a 'communication line' before....I may also be able to use it FOR plan D discussions? Am I in my on BS laland?

I will have to limit exchanges to small doses....the 'wayward' logic is really hard to 'listen to'....

...but mostly, it's BR's trademark saying that keeps echoing in my ears: work with WHAT IS....

Well...what is...is that WS DOES want to work WITH me at a lot of levels... he does want to HELP (when he can! ) ...OP does not answer ALL his needs, only some...

...because of the emotional wounds of A....and my need to protect myself and to heal my wounds....Plan B was in order...

Have I healed enough? That is the question. What's the price tag on regular 'contact' with a WS?

Maybe some of you can tell me the signs to look for, when there IS contact with a WS, that level is becoming 'unhealthy' and 'unproductive' for everybody concerned....

Anyways...I am testing the waters. It's certainly going out of my 'comfort' zone.

Last night DS13 was sick. He has an exam this afternoon. I have an important meeting at work.

So....one solution?

Called WS at 6am. Asked if he was available to come monitor the situation and, if DS13 was up to doing exam, could he at least drive him to school?... and if not, pass by the clinic and get a medical document to use so he would not be penalized?

No probs....WS would be free by 10...and would 'handle the situation' (I am not surprised, you see, because unless he was busy.... I know WS LIKES to be needed and be the hero to save the day)

...and I don't feel so bad....I am actually relieved....

A couple of calls in a couple of days... I COULD get used to this! ....and I guess OP will have to, too!

What I do wonder... at what level is this like making a 'deal with the devil'? Will I live to regret 'establishing' contact with WS?

New territory...any 'heads up' would be appreciated.

CL,


Nope...sorry to disappoint you.

I really want to CREATE a communication line, inspite of the fog, and plan FU would rather work towards SHUTTING IT DOWN!

No...as a matter of fact I ended the conversation with, more or less:

...because I would like to be able to 'listen' to what you have to say with my head and heart, and since only my head is now available and my heart is 'shutting down' because, you see, the wound is deep,I ask that we end the conversation.

(....true!....I was ready for a really good cry....overwhelmed by WS fogtalk!....which can only be taken in really small doses... than back to the cave for protection)

I got through it.

If I want to try this on a regular basis, I need to get to a place where it will be less DEMANDING....as it does take a lot of ENERGY and...'alertness'...

Like...negotiating with a gun aimed at you that could go off at any minute!

...for that, I like the phone... the conversation can be 'shut down' fairly quickly in the comfort of your own home!

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{LUNA}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Wow lady, you are moving leaps and bounds. I'm in awe of this new "taking" power or whatever it is. You deserve this feeling, newfound ability to walk throught he situation exactly as you need to.

How anyone of us really deals with this is really always doing the best we can. And I'm just so proud and honored to watch you get to this level or point for however it lasts. If it's gone tomorrow, the most coolest part is that you know what it feels like and you can work towards having it again only it won't be so foreign.

And if it lasts, well it sounds like you are moving forward and doing the most amazing job at it.

I have been taking a few days off from here because I was going to more meetings and keeping myself occupied in life. Which is good. I miss you all so much and I'm so GLAD and GRATEFUL to see the contenment, power, happiness and acceptance becoming more stronger as we speak.

You have been through so much and you NEVER backed down from the myriad of challenges put in front of you. G-d is so proud and honored to see you being in his will and walking in his path of good.

What an honor to know you.

:happyholidays:

Hi Queenie,

Thanks for the support.


Sounds like you are doing great too.

Take care.

uhmmmmmmm.

One of my own thoughts is already starting to 'eat away' at me....


Is some self-doubt... part of the unchartered course I am taking on at establishing 'contact' with a WS?

It might help if I answered a question like:

- what's the worse that could happen?

...don't know if I am well-equipped venturing into wayward country with values such as honesty, respect, love and sharing... in the face selfishness and lies.

I try to not lose sight of where I WAS...and where I AM.

For now...I am working on today. I will rest. Then I will see.

Luna,

After reading what you last wrote, my intial thought is you know what. No matter what you are doing, you are CHOOSING the path.

Affairs rob of us the choice of so many things. Is what you are doing best for you? You can say as it's such new territory.

From where I sit, I am watching you taking charge, look at what you are willing and choose to allow in your life and moving towards that.

Isn't that what personal recovery is all about? Taking the crap handed us, dealing with it, accepting it, becoming stronger and better for it, and choosing OUR path as a result of it. I have no doubt my friend if and when this "new" relationship or whatever becomes too much for you, you will know how to handle it or you will come here and let us process it through with you.

I'm so honored to watch this growth in you.

Hi Queenie,


I appreciate your support and encouragement.

...and, yes, I would say at this point I am in the process of considering if I can or cannot deal with contact with WS, how much of it before it becomes detrimental to me.

If I can manage it, it could make life "easier" at one level and difficult, of course, by the mere fact of being in contact with a WS...

...but I see others doing it...trying to learn from them... and trying to "convince myself" that it's possible...

...emotionally, it is definitely dangerous waters for me... and I will have to continually evalute the risks...

...and yes, I do count A LOT on consulting the BOARD for guidance and advice.

Let's face it, I for one, don't think I could have come this far had it not for you guys for....caring, giving support, 2x4s, advice on coping...up and including lighter stuff...laughing and recipes.

Which reminds me...lately, I haven't told you all that...

LOVE YOU MB BOARD

That's what learning to love ourself and take care of ourself is all about.

Evaluating, seeking G-d for his answers and walking through life, one moment at a time.

And knowing how much a part of "our" life you are and how I personally learn from you...

Luna girl,

How are ya doing?

Hi Queenie,

I am doing fine, thanks for asking.

Having trouble with computer at home, so less access to Board.

I am still not sure how I feel right now.... it's the holidays, am I NOT wanting to know how I feel?

My perception right now is that... every time I want to check on my 'feelings', pain seems to be all over the menu in some form or another... and I am getting tired of it being always in the mix...

I guess at some level, I can now see that I did 'order' it by making some of the choices I made in the past...

The trick now, is how to learn to order other 'items' and reduce the risk of PAIN continualy being part of the equation.

I know choosing Plan B, although a difficult choice, was part of the NEW CHOICES.... as no good can come out of remaining in contact with a WS.

I have also learned that the future is nothing more than a 'cumulation' of small decisions made TODAY based on a continual evaluation of what are our needs and are we looking after them...SOMEHOW....so learning to focus on TODAY and in so doing, trust that the FUTURE should look brighter....eventually :RollieEyes:

In some of my readings, one of the tools proposed is that one of the quickest and fastest way to make 'changes' happen is to also look at what is going on 'between the ears'...

....which boils down to changing the 'perspective' of how I see myself and the world around, which in turn also affects our choices.

Easier said than done.

Sounds like I just need a 'break' temporarily but I am not sure how to go about doing that.... we keep saying here, this is a marathon...we are all very unique, so is our baggage of tools...

Am I having trouble picking the right tools for the job? Do I even have the right tools for the job in my bag? and even if I do, learning how to use them WELL if they haven't been used much, takes time....

I am contemplating 'some' direct contact with WS as I think it will be helpful in my parenting role and do a better job of that...but will I be able to maintain the 'detached' mode enough to minimize the PAIN from direct contact with a WS?

I see some of you here able to do it. Can I?

self-doubt.... inexperience....fear.... rather than confidence that I will be able to HANDLE IT no matter what, comes up....

...and I guess this is part of the rollercoaster ride...

I just keep encouraging myself that I AM doing better than before and to keep building on that... although I feel the fatigue.... and am not sure how to deal with THAT!

Sorry if I don't make much sense.

Update and....

...looking for advice/suggestions, particularly re exchanging with a WS or WxS.

Last week I decided to 'test out' standing offer of WS wanting to exchange directly with me, and see how it would go.

So I called WS, discussed consequences of his choices (OP) and limitation re content of any direct exchanges (no discussion of 'elephant in the middle of the room' / matters of the heart) and politely ended our conversation when 'I' needed to.

Afterwards, I was surprised to feel relief at having been able to 'open up' the communication lines, satisfied at being able to take the risk at being hurt again, which did not happen and don't expect to happen as long as WS is willing to respect limitations, and I feel 'safe' to end the conversation whenever I need to.

In fact, it reminded me that our relationship started out as a 'friendship'.... so I just went back to that time as a point of reference, and it felt quite 'familiar and comfortable'.

I did leave it up to him to get back to me about it, and if interested, to let me know the times it would be best for him to talk.

Not having received a reply after a week, thought WS was not interested....NOT!

I received an email and this is what WS says:

"Getting back to your proposition, I can adjust my availability to your schedule, and don't have a specific time in mind. Tonight is a possibility...to talk about boys, holiday schedule, their gifts, their health in general... DS13 (at WS's this week) still has nose bleeds...yesterday went out to buy a new winter coat..noticed DS18 has a 'clearer' skin.... seems he has resolved issue with acne (had told WS DS18 taking some medication for acne)....or is it just the fact that he is growing up?

...and if you read email before going to work (WS sent it at 7 am this morning :RollieEyes: - as if I have nothing better to do than check and see if WS wants something from me), and goes on to tell me he is meeting with bank personnel today to evaluate new rates for one of our mortgages, goes on to give me some of the choices given, and what did I think about that?

Have a good day."

One of the habits I no longer want to accommodate, which apparently unknowingly I was 'enabling', is WS's consulting me at the last minute.... should WS really want MY opinion, needs to learn to plan ahead a bit and give me time to 'think' or do without it.... (and yes, I have learned that the earth will continue to turn without my getting back to him RIGHT AWAY!).. I remember I used to drop EVERYTHING to handle WS's requests...and sometimes at my expense (bad timing, already had too much to do) and probably as a consequence... cause for resentment... but I know better NOW...no 'sacrificing' allowed... RIGHT?

...and it so happens that tonight I am going OUT (with friends), so I will have to tell WS that on my end it will be possible once I am back, late at night.

Just wondering... if I am OK with this, and I CHOOSE to continue some sort of direct contact with WS.... as a passing thought, for the life of me... I can't help but wonder how OP will react to this NEW intrusion from BS in THEIR lives.... would an OP not consider it a 'threat'? ...stuck dealing with WS the 'daily routine'?

...venturing on NEW PATH....ready to FAIL, lick my wounds (because NOW I know I can), and LEARN to do better, if need be....

...I need to explore if I CAN work with WHAT IS (not want what I had, or what I dream of)... CAN I be attentive to my NEEDS (as I said somewhere, POJA with myself about any and all contact with WS - time, content and length - so that I only participate with 'enthusiasm')....what have I got to lose to try?

...or am I just very deep in BS fogland?

Sounds like you are just timid at venturing out into shark infested waters. This is normal, IMO.

I, personally, would keep most contact to that of the TEXT variety. Phone conversations can and probably WILL lead to hurt feelings, even fights, regression.

Who knows what the contact will do to his A, and, at this point, don't count on it to do anything. Try to stay focused on doing what is best for you and your boys, Luna. Let the rest fall into place on it's own.

Hi SL,


Yea... just wondering if it's worth it, and mostly, I am surprised I am considering it.

Is it partly because I have come to depend less on WS? My attitude is if and when I am not comfortable with it, or I find that it's taking too much energy to interact with WS, or that conversations do not stay on topic, I can always say so and revert back to texts only.


The 'text variety' is definitely better for taking my time to reply and limiting info. to facts.

I don't expect to be 'friends' either, and I do think I have made it clear to WS that he no longer has 'my trust', which explains why I am being 'cautious' when it comes to dealing with him. I must say, that really wouldn't make anyone feel very good about themselves, no matter how big a lie WS feeds himself.

I would like to see if it could be an option for the odd occasion where it would be 'practical' to do so, and also to help remove the 'sting' from exchanging directly, say, should an emergency situation arise.

Luna,

I just hope that you are not setting yourself up for more hurt. To me it seems like you are almost saying that you accept his A and will live with it in harmony. I don't know, maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think that is what you are saying. I don't want him to think that he can now bring OP with him when he comes to your house, or attends school functions etc.

Just want to protect you....