Like you too man, you are keeping me alive. Oh, an yeah, I am officially old but I sure don't feel it. I have just been out and bought myself some new clothes for tonight. I am gonna have the laydees drooling.

First of all, Happy New Year to you all.

Right, let me run through last night to see what you think of what happened.

I got to W house and she greeted me with a small hug, she had made my favourite food in case I hadn't eaten. She had got me a lovely birthday card, singed it with her pet name and 3 x's. She had also got me a 'wallet card' that says:

To a Very Special Friend on your Birthday

One of the nicest things in my life, is my friendship with you,
and even if we don't have a lot of time to spend with each other,
I want you to always know how much I appreciate you and our friendship.

She told me that she thought the verse was perfect and she just HAD to get me it. I told her it was really special and I would keep it with me at all times.

We ate and had a glass or 2 of wine. The conversation was light and fun. Good start. Later on the conversation turned to where I was going to move to when I lose / sell the MH. I said I wanted to get somewhere to take our 2 cats, so wherever it was, it must take pets. I said that I didn't know where I was going but didn't want to move too far away from my 2 sons, or my family. I told my W tht my son had said that he thought moving to the same town as my W wasn't a good idea in his mind, but there was a house 2 doors away. Her reply was "he may be right, but it's up to you. Moving 2 doors away would be freaky. Id' have to tell people that my XH was living 2 doors away!"

Let me tell you now, those words 'EX HUSBAND' cut through me like a knife, but I simply agreed that it may not be the best idea, I would see what the new year brought, and changed the subject.

During the conversation, (I can't remember how it came about), but I stated that during our recent reconciliation,I jumped in too quick and felt comfortable too quickly. She said "Yes, you did slip a little didn't you." I agreed and talked about something else.

We went out to the local pub for a few drinks and my wife pointed at my ring finger and said, "what are you doing wearing that?" referring to me wearing my wedding ring. I replied by saying that it was a personal thing, in my mind I was fighting for my family and my marriage and that by wearing it, I was telling the world what I was doing. After all, we are still married.

She replied with "Well, yes we are, but we are not a married couple, but I suppose we could be the 1st separated husband and wife to be just friends. If you can't stay friends with me, then I will just have to accept that, but it's not what I want".
I said maybe, it depends, she said "what do you mean?" I said "I can't fortell the future and that may not be possible, but you don't want to talk about that now do you?". She agreed that she didn't and so I changed the subject again.

The rest of night was fun and we shared a lot of laughs and at midnight, we had a light hug and she gave me a peck on the cheek.
We chatted some more and then she stood up and said, "will you be alright sleeping on the sofa". Not knowing what she was really referring to, and working on the premise of Plan A and friendship, I simply said "Of Course, see you in the morning"

The next day, I was woken up by her walking about upstairs, I got up and made us a cup of coffee. I called to her, wished her good morning and told her a "brew" was waiting downstairs.

We chatted a little more and I said that I hoped that 2009 would be a lot better than 2008 as that was one year I truly wanted to forget all about. She replied with "don't worry, we'll be ok". Now I don't know whether that was a we as in us or a we as in 2 individuals. Hard to tell.

I suggested taking her for lunch as a thankyou for the meal and her hospitality the night before, and added "unless you have other plans". She said "OK, that would be nice, we can if you want". I told her I DID want so we went out for a nice lunch. chat again was lighthearted and I noticed that she was playing a lot with her wedding ring, which is now on her right hand. (maybe nothing in that, but thought I would mention it)

On getting back to her house, I got my stuff together, she said "don't forget your birthday card and have you got your wallet card". I said I had them both. We had another light hug, she said "Take Care and See You Soon". I said " you too and I hope so". she gave me a big smile, and I left.

Well that was th night that was, I was hurt a few times by her comments during the night, but brushed them off without reacting and was nothing but happy, cheerful and considerate. Maybe she really DOES want to be "just friends" and nothing more. Maybe she wants more, but due to our failed reconcile, doesn't want me to expect anything more and just wants to see the "real" me emerge after a lengthier period of time, hence her comment about me "slipping" earlier.

I enjoyed myself, but found it hard at the same time, well I suppose no-one ever said it was going to be easy

Anyone's input and thoughts about the above will be much appreciated.

It seems that she wants to keep you in limbo land of "just as a friend".

Thanks TheRoad,

I need to see a lot of different perspectives before I decided my next move. It hurt me to be there and listen to some of the things she was saying and I don't know whether they were meant that way or just said because she is quite happy with the situation and feels no awkwardness in speaking that way.

There was one point in the night where she got a txt from a female co-worker that read, as far as I can recall...

Here's to all the beautiful women in the world, to those that have us, to those that love us, forget about those that have lost us (at this point she stopped and said "oh dear") then continued...But remember we are the lucky ones for being the best looking girls in the world!

Maybe I'm clutching at straws, but I really don't think I want to give up THAT easy. After all, we started as friends, and then worked from there. Can it happen a 2nd time?

One more little snippet for you to digest...

Whilst at my W house I noticed that there was a can of my deodorant still in her bathroom. Not something she would EVER use, but there it was neatly stacked on the shelf alongside her creams and lotions. Also, in her car, passenger side door pocket were a bracelet and necklace of mine. She had aslo been looking at photographs of us together as they had been moved in the cupboard (I had to go into the cupboard to get her laptop that she hadn't used since I left and put away the same day and the photos were on the top of it). I didn't mention any of these things to my W.

Now surely if things were over, they would have ALL been either given back or removed? I know that when I came back to the MH after our 2 months failed recovery, I got together ALL the remaining stuff of hers and asked her if she wanted them, if not I threw them out. I didn't want constant reminders of her once living here.

I also wonder that during our 2 months, my W in her own mind convinced herself that it reall WAS over and there was NO chance of her ever getting the 'in love' feelings back and is therefore happy with having reminders around as she has successfully moved on.

Sorry if any of the above is repeating myself. Just going over the last 24 hours and keep remembering things.

OMG Here I go again.... :RollieEyes:

One thing whilst we were together before W first left, she was always asking me to go on walks with the dogs. I VERY rarely went. I was always "busy" or tired or any other crappy excuse.

Today, W asked me what I had planned for the next couple of days, I said sorting finances, going to gym, and a few other things. I asked her, she has some mutual friends (who took in one of our dogs that we both miss) going to her house for a meal tomorrow night. She also said that she maybe going for a few walks. "You know how I like walking, it clears my head"

Should I have suggested going on walks with her, or would that have looked like pursuing and wanting more than friendship given that that would be a HUGE 180 for me?

Any thoughts on that one?.

Just wondering, what is going on with your business right now? And are you in danger of losing your home?

You are doing very well in your Plan A. I know how hard it is.

I also suggest that you not be so available to her. Go out and do some things on your own.

Believer, thanks for the support and advice.

Yeah, my business has hit rock bottom, I gave it up and thankfully secured well paid employment. I am currently in the process of being made bankrupt by the UK Tax Office so the house will be taken from me.

The last 12 months have been pretty awful for me in all respects.
I have lost my wife, lost my car (repo'd), lost my business and am now going to be bankrupt.

Hey ho, things can only get better eh!

Well, so sorry to hear that, but it is a new year now.

I don't think you will lose your wife, she will most likely wake up. There is some sort of affair going on, and THAT is why she isn't attracted to you right now. But affairs hardly ever last, and then she will be back to normal.

I suggest you not be so available. And when you do get together, I hope you will ask her lots of things about her job. That seems to have something to do with all of this. She probably would enjoy talking about it.

Thanks again believer,

I don't know whether or not you have read my complete thread, but there was an EA (at least) and I am almost certain that it is now over. I understand the reasons for the non attraction. I have been on the opposite side of the coin some 8 years ago but we reconciled well.

With regards to talking about her work, yes, I do that, a lot. She loves her patients (she looks after older people with mental health problems) in fact at lunch today, I sat and listened to her gfor 30 minutes telling me all about the Xmas at work and the patients that were there and what a good time they had.

What worries me, to be honest, is that if the EA HAS finished, but she has convinced herself that she is "changed", then there will be no hope for her to wake up.

An thanks for the concern about my business, that's life I suppose and I am but another percentage to add to the statistics :P

I'll try to be less available, it's about all I HAVEN'T tried yet!

Yes, I read the whole thing. It really isn't clear if it was an EA or if it is over.

I mean, how do you explain the deodorant in her room?

At any rate, if it IS over, then she will switch back to normal - it might take a few weeks, but she should.

And try not being so available.

Good on talking to her about her work!!!!!!!

I think let her her see you do new things for yourself would make you more interesting. I think she hasn't really decided yet if she's giving up on you, so to see you move on some - get a more exciting fun life - will make her question giving you up. Talk to her about the new things you are doing; it will make her think about being part of it.

Ah....the deodorant, it was mine that I took over when we were trying to reconcile. The point in mentioning it, was that she has kept it there instead of throwing it out or giving it back to me.

I hear you on the available front, no worries, I'll do that.

Thanks for the support believer, it's keeping my spirits up

Thanks Cat,

It was one of the things I talked about today, I said I needed something new in my life and suggested I may take up a new hobby, I didn't know what, but it would be good for me. (that's why she told me she was going out walking, her way of telling me she was doing things too).

I mentioned horse riding as well, (we reared a horse for 10 years when we lived on a farm together and I looked after it for her when she was ill and in hospital but she gave it up to do her nurse training). I think she looked on that idea as me trying to do something that would interest her (pursuing) only. I may have to rethink that one.

I have a question relating to finance, hoping that someone can help.

As you may have read from my thread, my business failed and I am in the preocess of being made bankrupt. Due to this I have a lot of debt and will probably lose the MH.

Within this debt is significant "joint" debt. Now, if I am made backrupt, the debt is released from me after a period of 12 months, but the creidtors will more than likely immediatly turn to my W (as co-signator (SP?))and try to get the money from her.

We have discussed this and her first reaction was hostile, then realistic and finally she said that 'they can't take what I haven't got'. I then suggested that I have her removed from the joint debt prior to my bankruptcy and therefore, being the sole 'owner' of the debt, they can't or won't chase her for the money.

Now,I am currently in the middle of a hard working Plan A and am getting on great as 'friends'. So...do I do as suggested and take full ownership of the debts and make her life easier, or...do I let things carry on and have her take the hit and suffer for her decision to leave.

FYI, she knew all about the impending bankruptcy and possible loss of MH before she left and believe that she thought she would be able to 'run away' from it all.

Bearing in mind the current state of our relationship, will it be harmed in the future if I do nothing or will it improve by me showing my caring side. Truth be known, I am caring and really don't want to give my W any more problems. But should I be?

Anyone care to give their pov to the above?

IMO, it doesnt matter how good your plan A, or what you are hoping to achieve, her debt is her debt and not your problem.

Theres a bit in the carrot and stick post about not protecting the WS from the consequences of their actions.

Lil, thanks for the reply. I realise that her debts are hers, but these are joint. We got into these as a couple and maybe it's a little unfair her beng saddled with ALL of them.

One interesting thing though, when we got a joint loan, I discussed it with her and we agreed on it, together. 2 days post bomb, she told her mother that I had taken out a loan wihtout her even knowing about it. When I called her out on it, she said, "oh yeah, I must have forgotten". As if!

One more little thing I noticed the other night. We were walking down the town to a pub and W got some chewing gum out, it was the last piece in the packet. She then threw the packet down onto the floor. I called her a 'litter lout' (UK term for someone throwing rubbish onto the street) She made a 'uhhuh' noise so I couldn't help myself and said "My, your moral standards really HAVE dropped haven't they!". This was ignored. lol

Personally, I wouldn't be releasing her from any of the family issues, such as debts. That would be just letting her walk away from the family. Not the same as Plan A, IMO.

This is where I admit I don't really know your sitch.

Why? Because of the A, because you mismanaged, because she did?

She signed it as a married person. If she was still married to you it wouldnt be an issue now would it?
Sounds like a good answer
Um, yes, that sounds standard.

FWIW this is your sigline:
Me: 50
W: 45
M 24 T 26
S:23 S:21
WAW 15/8/08
Reconcile 07/10/08 (her decision)
Sep Again 13/12/08 (her decision)
Do I need to be more assertive?