bf,

I am SO frustrated that your WH keeps worming his way past your Plan B fence! And using the kids to do it. Spreading his fog on innocent children who can't see through it...AGGGHHH!

I don't know what to tell you because I didn't have to deal with this myself. Perhaps others who have can help you tighten the fence.

And FWIW, I don't believe he's not still involved with OW.
Lying toad.

God, I want to thump him myself.

RHW

Thanks for the support RHW! I'm sure he is still in contact or in "waiting" for contact with OW. I don't know why he stopped seeing her -- whenever he has said he stopped its always "for now" and has nothing to do with us. Even since the first D-day, he stated that they left it open in case things don't "work out" with his wife.
BullSh*t!!! If she has nothing to do with where we are and he loves me as a friend and the mother of his children, then he should be able to cut one friend out of his life, especially if he wants to be friends with me as we rear our children. Why would he keep someone in his life that just her presence causes me pain if he cares about me at all? I just can't follow what the h*ll he says anymore and I'm sick of other people buying into it.
For now, the darker I go, the darker I go...
I keep reminding myself that no matter what happens, I will come out the better because I have not destroyed my kids lives or hurt people I love and I can hold my head up high.
He looks now and forever, unless he starts really taking responsibility for what he's done, will be tainted for his selfish choices!!!!
BF439

"I am not seeing her or anyone else. I have had some contact with her as I have with other friends that i care about"

Well, that's a good one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

These waywards don't even know if they are or aren't having contact.

Exactly! What part of no contact don't you get?!! I want to scream at him, you cannot be a good dad and keep her in your life -- get it?
And IMHO, you cannot fully understand or own what you have done unless you cut all contact with her. She is not your friend, she is your affair partner. Your partner in crime. The person you systematically supported to lie to the people in your life that you say you care about.
I can't make any sense of it...
Just finished Bridget Jones (the movie) with mom and daughter. Moving on to Mama Mia for the 4th time!!
BF439
BTW, yes, tully, the dog has been a huge support to me and my children. She is a snuggly dog, which my older dog is not and when my kids are not here, I have a warm little bundle to snuggle with, so I get some comfort from her, too.

Just feeling pretty miserable from this surgery (septoplasty and rhinoplasty) and waiting for nose to clear. I look like a panda... I did just find out today that insurance finally agreed to cover some of the costs. YEAH!!!!!

What would happen if you sent this to him in a card, or something?

I don't know what would happen. I'm in plan B so I'm not supposed to care what he says or how foggy he is, but honestly, some of these insights are only coming to me now.
He has not taken responsibility -- except for the hurt he's caused, not for being a liar (he only lied to protect me) or for sleeping with another woman (he didn't really love me) or for leaving me and the kids (I devserve to be with someone who will love me).
So everything is about what he can't possibly control or what he has worked on for years (without me knowing that it needed to be worked on) and could not change and meanwhile, here I am as his wife with no idea. Honestly, I thought for years, poor guy, he's so stressed out by his job...
Truly, folks, I'm about at Plan FU. I don't know what else I could or should communicate to him or his family, because they ALL seem perfectly ok with let him make his choices and deal with the consequences and I'm, still thinking, but yes, what about my kids in the meantime? What about me in the meantime?
I'd love for some veteran feedback about catperson's point. Any thoughts?
BF439

Well, this may not go over well, but from what I've learned about men and women and human nature, more often than not, a man will NOT truly understand he is in the middle of Plan FU until the wife is well and truly GONE. I don't know what it is, maybe because men are raised by women and taught to be taken care of and not have to worry about things by WOMEN, but I truly believe it is human nature for a man to not truly 'get it' until she is so fed up that she goes into Plan FU.

Women are not like that as much; they worry about things; they observe; they doubt. But men go on their merry way, content to be taken care of, and assuming such is the way of the world - until she leaves. I see it over and over and over again here. The man never 'gets it' until she leaves. Then he bends over backwards to make up for all his sh&t, and usually never gets it all back.

cat, what you've just described is called "entitlement."

bf,

I don't think it would do him OR you a lick of good to write him AGAIN. Plan B is no contact, until it becomes Plan FU. I'm thinking you don't want to file. Since YOU don't have another person waiting in the wings, and you didn't create this situation, it's not your job.

Make him do it. I'm betting he won't. Then OW will really turn up the heat. Do you have any idea how many OWs wait and wait while their MM tell them "it's complicated. I can't leave now because blah, blah, blah." Some wait years, until they finally figure out he isn't going to divorce his wife. He's saying he wants out, but his actions show he isn't ready to pony up to it, even though he seems to have his family's "support."

Gotta wonder why that is...

Go darker. Live your life. Force HIM to follow through with HIS Plan FU. I don't think he will. JMHO.

RHW

"Live your life" -- the best advice and something even two months ago I could not even imagine, but today it is far less scary. I know I can make it without him and I don't even miss him the way I used to.
Last night I realized tho, that sometimes I just get scared when I think about living as a single mom and for the dummest reasons! Like, I don't know how to find some things on the home computer, or which home maintanance things need to be done when. Stuff that I know I can take care of and overcome, but I've never had to because I had a husband who did all those things.
Anyway, MIL and GMIL have both called me over the past few days because of my surgery, but I didn't talk to them (sleeping), but I feel like talking to his family is a trigger for me. I love them, and I know they do feel torn, but it just doesn't feel good to me to talk with them. It always seems to set me back.

I thought also last night (it was a bad night -- didn't sleep until 4:00 AM) about how WH sending the card to my mom was still all about him! His need to reach out to her, not what would be helpful to her! What if she got it right before her big party and was all upset? Still very selfish state of mind...


Well, have some lovely plans with mom and DD13 for the day. I'll update later.
Any and all posts appreciated!
BF439

I feel for you, Believer, because I'm also in Plan B. We just want our H's back. We just want our family in tact. We want to protect our children. We want to wake up to this just being a bad dream. We don't want OW to win the prize. Yep...our WH's are like a prize. Sometimes, Plan FU seems more doable. Let OW have the damaged prize!!

I understand about those household things that we rely on our husbands to do. I built up a good bit of resentment while my then WH was living his wonderful, no-responsibilities new life 4 hours away, leaving me to figure out things like how to reclaim our pool from a green swamp. He dumped everything about the house on me, and I just hadda do it. But as I struggled with things, I cried, from frustration, sadness and resentment.

Boy, am I glad that's over. Funny, though, I'm still the one who cleans the pool...because I can.

And about WH's family--if it pains you to talk to them, keep it to a minimum. Nice that they cared enough to check up on you after your surgery. As long as they know you are "right here waiting" and standing for your marriage, they won't likely move past their own ambivalence about WH's poor behavior.

Glad you've got some fun planned with your own mom. Did you ever tell her the whole story?

Ok, I love when I receive a moment of clarity that helps me grow within this crappy situation I'm in. So I was feeling sorry for myself after I got a message on facebook from an old friend who said WH and I "had a good run." So I went into "woe is me"(although I responded to the post cheerfully and with the "I haven't given up on my marriage." line)

Anyway, it just sort of came to me that WH hasn't "done" this to me-- I am not the victim. He has done this to himself and he has yet to reap the consequences of such hurtful behavior. So then it comes to me that God (or however you identify your higher power) gave me this as my task, my burden by which I am asked to grow. I knew all along that I would come out of this stronger, but I still felt it was so unfair! But for some reason I feel like this was given to me to, maybe as a test, maybe as the catalyst for growth. We all have experiences like this in our life- who am I to fight what God has given me?

I got to say, too, I'm not particularly religious--spiritual, but not traditionally religious. That makes this train of thought even more powerful to me, because the best way I can describe this is comfort knowing that this was GIVEN to ME. I haven't wanted it, but is mine to deal with and learn from.
I do still have hope for my marriage--I did after marry for life, but I feel a peace I haven't in quite a long time!!
BF439
PS:
Did you know pugs snore--all night!!!!

Hi bf-



So do Jack Russells....

I'm happy that this personal insight has brought you some peace, bf.

Once I looked at the horror as a lesson for growth and wisdom, coming from a loving God, it was easier to take my focus off my WH and examine myself. NOT to beat myself up over where I'd failed, and NOT to see myself as a victim. But to think about myself and my life in a way I never had before, especially since I realized there was a good chance I'd be on my own.

I hate that I had to be blown to bits before it occurred to me to decide exactly how I wanted to be put together. Not accepting how I "turned out," but how I want to be.

For me, it didn't have to be infidelity that got me to that place, but that's how it worked out. I think my motivation came from my determination that I wasn't going to live through all that pain without SOME reward, and the only thing I could control on that score was what I would do with ME.

Enjoy rebuilding yourself for a while, bf. We can always make a good thing better.

RHW

bf, this is one of the most inspiring posts I've ever read here. Thank you for sharing.

Yes, but do Jack Russels look like fat, carmel tootsie rolls??!!
Do they hug?

Thank you, catperson, I never thought I'd hear the words "inspiring" out of anything I posted. "Pitiful", "sad", "depressing", yes, but, "inspiring"? No way!
I never thought in a million years I'd feel this positive about myself 6 months into this.
I feel both comforted with the thought that this is now MINE and excited about the future, because I have opened up to the universe to limitless possibilities.
I will say again, tho, my first hope is a recovered marriage, but it is not my ONLY hope anymore...
BF439

Bf,
A friend gave me a book a while ago, and I keep it in my car reading pages as I wait for the kids. I haven't read the whole thing yet, but what you are saying is very similar to what's in the book. It's called "Shattered Dreams" by Larry Crabb.

Here are five lessons outlined in the book:
Lesson 1. Our fondest dreams for life, the ones we natually believe are essential to our happiness, must be fully abandoned if we are to know God well. Shattered dreams are necessary for spiritual growth.

Lesson 2. Something wonderfult survives everything terrible, and it surfaces most clearly when we hurt.

Lesson 3. Some dreams important to us will shatter, and the realization that God could have fulfilled that dream pushes us into a terrible battle with him.

Lesson 4. Only an experience of deep pain develops our capacity for recognizing and enjoying true life.

Lesson 5. Not many Christians drink deeply from the well of living water. As a result, our worship, our community, and our witness are weak.

Lesson 6. No matter what happens in life, a wonderful dream is available always, that if pursued will generate an unfamiliar, radically new internal experience. That experience, strange at first, will eventually be recognized as joy.

So we, BSs, are to suffer if we are to have a better M or a better relationship down the line.

Hi bf



Hmmm, I can only speak for mine, but no-she doesn't look like a fat, carmel tootsie rolls. Too wired for that. She's more of a "double shot espresso all the time" dog. But, she does snuggle, and burrows in close when she does. And, she does that "RCA dog" head cocked to the side like she is listening to you thing.

Thank God for our canine companions. I think mine is a direct gift from Him.

Heh. That reminds me of my pastor (Lutheran). Every Christmas, the Sunday before, she hands out door hangers, inviting people to our church for Christmas Eve and Christmas Day services. She calls it our "Ring and Run" witnessing. She acknowledges that most people are afraid to bring up the subject of religion to people, to go door to door, so this way you can put a hanger on your neighbor's door, ring the doorbell, and run!

She's just kidding, but at least she understands.