Ah, this is a subject I can speak to. Myself, my H and The Vampire (aka OW) all work in the same company.<P>The night I confirmed the affair, H was out of town. I know The Vampire hangs out at a certain bar. Acting very mature (yeah right) I went to the bar, got drunk, and waited for her to show up. Then I went to another bar and danced by myself. Various men invaded my dance space and tried to convince me that if I just slept with them, it would be the perfect revenge. I told them I was at the bar to drink and dance, bye bye. Then I went back to the first bar, but The Vampire never appeared, luckily! I had the whole speech planned out in my head, about how she could have him and his low self-esteem and his piles of crap all over the house, and his various neuroses, oh and don't forget his gas!!!!! I asked a friend who happened to be there to drive me home so I wasn't driving drunk. Alright, stupid confrontation avoided! But boy, at the moment, it was sure fun to think about.<P>The next time I went to work on a day I knew she'd be there, I dressed up to the nines, mini skirt, make-up, cute hair, everything. As it so happened, I did have a legitimate reason to go into her department and talk to her and the other three people there. I put on my nicest, most smiley, grateful face and requested their help. All the while I was looking at her and smiling. She never made eye contact with me, but nodded her head and said "yes" to what I was asking. I turned around and walked away. Later, another co-worker who was aware of the situation complimented me on my poise. It was EXTREMELY gratifying!!!!!!<P>Soon, I plan to take H out to the same nightclub, and show her just how very happy we are together, and how grateful he is to be with me. It should be quite fun!<P>Kat1-I love it that you did her astrology chart! Did you say things like "your affair with a married man is hopeless"? LOL

Hi flipper <BR>I must confess I was a bit ticked off for the way you wrote your post. It seemed full of assumptions and if I learned one thing was never to do that There are so many different situations as that many people involved in affairs ( betrayers or betrayed ), and it is not fair to lump them all in the same way.<BR>In some cases even, like cl pointed out, there are underlaying causes that actually have nothing to do with the marriage.<BR>Yes, I understand - I was the first one to assume responsability for my part as small or big as it was in my H's affair, although again, it still didn't validate it or justifyed it, if the problems were so big he didn't think they could be worked out then he should end the marriage first then find other relationships - but yes, its quite difficult to find situations where only one part is at fault - there are exceptions however - but that applies to most anything in life, we cannot use that to justify an affair, no matter how justifiable it seems. Or else, what is marriage and commitment?<P>Anyway, I understand your problem and your struggle at this moment. Just one thought, is your wife being sarcastic because she's protecting herself from being hurt?<BR>ANd FLipper, yes many of us are doing great, and what we learned about ourselves, our spouses and our marriage during the affair - and after - is helping us to create a stronger, more realistic relationship. <BR>Communcation is one of the best tools, and many of us learned to use it in a better way than before. WE also learned that marriage is something that we as a team should work always, and that sometimes what we "assume" are our spouse's most important needs, are actually low on their lists, so we're making sure that we are open about them in order not to make anymore mistakes. Also important is realising that every couple needs "couple"time, - no matter how busy or how many children we have - a lot of us forget about that part. We are so worried about make a living, be a good parent, and do all the things that grown ups do, that we tend to forget about being a couple in the process.<P>Keep posting, and tells us about your specific problems are, and we'll help as much as we can. You say you love your wife. Well if that's the case, than you're halfway there maybe you just need to read new strategies in here <P>Marlo, LOL<BR>I actually wasn't too obvious on my horoscopes, but did imply in different ways that she needed to deal with her values, her lovelife was not on a high and she needed to review her options based on honesty and integrity, and that her whole life was going trough the influence of some planets that would help her become a better person if she payed attention to the signs. I actually gave her good advice regarding her kids and family ( where she was having problems ), reminded her about the good traits on her sign and gave her positive options for life in general. SO I wasn't as mean as all that ;-).Sure I enjoyed downplaying the relationship, That was what made it fun, and helped me kind of vent, which in turn, helped me not to fell so frustrated when H was home, and be able to deal with my problem in a lighter and less obsessive way, but I didn't do it with the intention of causing her any special harm, and I didn't.<BR>Actually in two instances she - by chance or not - followed my advice, one regarding work and another her children, with very good results. SO I think I actually reedemed myself for the fake horoscopes <P>Take care everyone<BR>Kat

Flip, I am sorry I came on too strong if it seemed like that. I guess I am a little bitter because my H wasn't communicating with me about his problems, which is weird. I think that he always tried so hard to make things right on his own that he forgot that I was part of the marriage and when he gave up on trying to work things out (all this time without communicating his problems with me) he thought I had given up as well. He forgot that it took two people to make or break the relationship and he just went to my "friend" who knew how much I wanted to work things out. She also knew how much she really wanted to have him in her bed. Yes, I do have a reason to blame the OW. Not all people do. I also know that I have forgiven her for the pain she caused me because I actually feel good about where her life is going right now. (My SIL tells me stuff that I am sure she wouldn't want me to know!) I miss her friendship because we were good friends, I could tell her things with a look and she could do the same for me. It's truly sad. That still doesn't stop me from sometimes wanting to put sugar in her car or taking her back into a back alley. These are all side effects from the pain that they dished out to me. <BR>I was blind to what needs my husband needed met. I was meeting all the wrong ones and had no real knowledge of the real ones. She knew what needs he needed. She had the inside information to help me if she chose to and she didn't. That is what hurts, she was supposed to be my friend.....yes, I am still hurt about that and that does cause me to react rather oddly at times.<BR>I truly wish the best for you, if you are working as you say you are. God Bless.<P>------------------<BR>Chick's <BR>Bren<P>You won't see things until your ready to not be blind!<P><BR>

Well, the only OW that my H has admitted to is dead, so the only thing I could fantasize about was dumping a huge pile of doggie poop on her grave. I <B>did</B> compose an awful, awful poem to her, which ended with hoping that she died from clawing herself to death (of the same STD she sent home to me via my H--and by the way, that STD was pure torture!). However, dumping a pile of poop on her grave wouldn't hurt her, but it would hurt her mother and brother. I think that just fantasizing about it was good 'nuff. Now, I mostly just feel sorry for her.<P>Now, you've said that you told your wife over the years what you needed from her. The question that pops up in my mind is <B>how</B> you communicated those needs to her.<BR>My H has never been hesitant in tell me what he expects of me, but boy, he can sure tell me in such a way that gets my goat. I admit that I didn't meet a lot of what his needs were, but to tell the truth, I felt like all he wanted from me was for me to be his maid, babysitter, sex object, and general flunkie. I think that most of us who love our spouses <B>want</B> to do things to make our spouses happy; on the other hand, I think that we grow to bitterly resent being <B>ordered</B> to do them.<P>Example: My H loves my home-made biscuits, but I am <B>not</B> a morning person. Back in the days when I wasn't working, I cooked breakfast every morning. Sometimes, I just couldn't face working that biscuit dough, so I would fix toast, along with the eggs, bacon/sausage, grits, etc., but most mornings, I did make the biscuits. During one of his hateful spells (maybe when he was having a fling?), he would throw a huge fit and walk out of the house without eating anything--simply because I didn't make biscuits that morning. What did that do to me? Well, I went from enjoying making biscuits for him because he liked them to hating to make them because it was something he demanded me to do.<BR> Finally, I got tired of his fit-throwing and told him one morning, as he was walking out the door, "If you walk out without eating your breakfast because I made toast instead of biscuits, I will <B>never, ever</B> make you another biscuit as long as I live!" Well, he turned around, came back in and ate his breakfast. I went on to tell him that I would continue making biscuits for him, but that once in a while, I might fix toast instead. I explained to him that some mornings, I just could not face the messiness of making biscuits. Anyway, he later learned to make biscuits--and he makes better biscuits than I do now! So, now he prefers to make the biscuits himself!<P>So, think about <B>how</B> you communicated your needs to your wife. Is it possible that you either weren't clear enough or that you may have been rather more forceful than you thought?<P>And, I think someone else has mentioned this, but I get the impression that you may have, and still do, feel that you were "entitled" to have the affair because your wife wasn't meeting your needs. This may not be the case, of course, but that's the general impression I get. Your wife may also be getting this impression. I know that I'm often feeling like my H is trying to meet my needs only because he's trying to keep the peace--to keep me from talking about his cheating. I feel that he told me only as much truth as he felt he had to tell me in order to get me to come back home. But, I'm trying to work with what is going on now, in hopes that if he's faking it now, he'll eventually make it all the way back to me. You know--the old "fake it 'til you make it" thing. <p>[This message has been edited by Sweetpea (edited October 22, 1999).]

Ladies:<P>Thanks for inviting me back. I guess my biggest problem now is how to get my W to trust me again and to come back into the marriage. We live together and we talk things out all the time. Sometimes it is calmly and sometimes not.<P>I have taken the heat for a lot of stuff but if I mention that she might have had something to do with it, she gets upset and refuses to talk about it any more. As long as I blame myself it's OK, but if I talk about what I think she did or didn't do, then the discussion is over.<P>She won't forgive her friends, even though she's the one who told them she had no more use for me. She told them we didn't have a sex life anymore and that she had no interest in "that" anymore.<P>Fact is that she hasn't had an interest in sex in several years. While she was always passive, at least in the earlier days she was quite passionate when stimulated properly. Now she says shes lost that loving feeling and its gone, gone, gone, etc.. She just can't get turned on by me (she says). Fact is that she finds any reference to sex on TV, in the Movies, in newwspapers, etc, to be offense. <P>I'll keep trying to hang in there and see if I can get her to open up and deal with our problem.<P>Your support, advise, and insight are greatly appreciated.<P>Thanks <P>Flip