Now I know what I wanted to say! LOL You wrote:


Oh boy, do I hear ya! My counselor even says to me--"if you're waiting for him to validate you, you'll be waiting a long time." I also wish he would say exactly what you quoted up there.

Hi Jayne, thinking of you. Here's a song I wanted you to hear. You know, LA told me once, when I was in pain, that it hurts the worst to signal us that the next change is coming. You're not who you were. You're ready. You're not alone.

Thanks OH and ears!

OH, yes I had noticed similarities between us, I'm glad you saw them too! I haven't looked at your thread in a few days, I'll go over there and catch up.

Thanks for the inspirational song ears! I sent you a msg on Tools last night when I was feeling the most down. I'll write more when I have more time.

*hugs*

I totally gotta stay away from threads about husbands who have "seen the light" when their wives start to leave!

Hi Jayne,
i dont have time to really post, just read but I wanted to let you know I was here.


you and me both

Jayne, do you think you'd feel better if you spit it out what's bothering you? I'm curious what thread that you're talking about.

One example, Dr. Phil talks at length about how when he and his W got married, she wouldn't ask for what she needed, she saw herself as less equal than him. H recognized that, I'm assuming maybe his mom was like that or something. So he kept telling her that he needed her O&H. Until she opened up. It didn't take leaving.

Another example, would be a woman who treats herself as less than equal, and the H doesn't notice, like Seabird's wife. He explained why this was not obvious to him. And for her part, it sounded like it wasn't obvious to her, either. Until something in her snapped when she saw Seabird discipline their son one day. He described it, and he disciplined his son the way many of us would, but she saw loud and clear how her perspective was totally left out of their life. Seabird, once she could express this, made the changes, but she'd realized too late. It turned out well, though, the kids are doing great, and Seabird has found another partner.

Another example was Cuthbert. I think you know his story, but in a nutshell, his wife expressed frustration, and then stopped. He thought that meant everything was okay, but then got a signal to snoop, and found out that she was still frustrated. It didn't take leaving. He made the changes, and found it wasn't too late.

Another example was Sadmo. Her H became more and more distant, and she stopped accepting status quo, too. She didn't leave. We can make changes in the same house. But her H left. She didn't know it, but he had an OW at the time. But she and her kids are happy now.

Jayne, you also realized that you didn't like the status quo. You and your H are making changes, like moving to a place that works better for you two. You are making real progress in your actions. And getting coaching from Steve, even your H who you were concerned would be resistant. I see you as one of the success stories, who "woke up" before it was too late. So my question is, why are you down? Isn't it great, that you're making the changes you need, letting go of the response?

I think deep down, we all want to be loved, wanted, and appreciated. And safe. Men, I think, go into relationships with a huge expectation of being at odds with the wife. Because they operate differently. And because women have a reputation for being needy or demanding or critical. They have to be
'taught' that they can be themselves around you. You're making good steps on giving him assurance it's safe. But at some point, he needs to understand how much he is stressing you out. You'll have to be honest with him.

Lots of good comments I want to answer. But first, an update:

So last night I was a victim of that 1950's or 1960's housewife's nightmare, being called by the husband right before dinner saying "I'm bringing the boss over for dinner!"

Well not exactly the boss. More like two colleagues and 4 assistants.

I don't do a good 1950's housewife!

Ok to be honest, he had told me ahead of time, but it was originally planned for Monday night. I even invited one colleague, the one that's H's friend, at that meeting that I told y'all H RSVP'ed me to attend since he couldn't. I think H mentioned in passing Thursday or Friday that it was changed to Saturday, but it didn't really register, and H was at work all day Saturday starting really really early, and didn't call until 6:00 p.m. to remind me that he was bringing 6 people with him.

All day I'd been doing laundry (so piles of sorted laundry was in the laundry room which opens into the kitchen, and clothes being folded were all over the living room), cleaning toilets, refereeing fights and trying to get a little educational activities in. I'd been waiting for dinner cus I had no idea when H was coming home. I really didn't feel like company!

All of a sudden I had to get the kids bathed (no, really, I did; no it couldn't wait until after the guests left!) clean the kitchen, finish folding the clean laundry and hide the dirty laundry, clean off the counter-top which is a catch-all for everyone's stuff EXCEPT mine (H doesn't like me to leave my stuff on the counter so I'm not... it still collects everyone else's stuff!), straighten up and pick up all the toys, papers, etc, all in an hour. Fortunately I didn't need to cook, cus they were gonna go get pizzas.

After an hour H called to say they were just then leaving so it would be another hour. That was good news for my cleaning, bad news for the kids who were waiting on dinner.

I managed to pull it off, believe it or not. All the countertop junk was put in a box and put in the cabinet. I didn't vacuum or dust, but I got just about everything else done. I came off looking like a real housewife! (well except a real housewife prolly woulda had a gourmet meal prepared) *and* I got to talk shop with the guys about something we needed to talk about anyway, so that was good too. Since H doesn't tell me much, it was good that he brought over some guys who would tell me things.

And (especially in light of another thread) notice to anyone who may think the above is implying it's ok to get overly close to members of the opposite sex: yes everyone H brought home was male. Yes one of them is someone I also talk to even without H. No none of it is inappropriate, it's all business-related or at least the type of small-talk that one has with acquaintances anyway. You know, talking about the blizzard that snowed everyone in... how hard was it to sell our other houses... how much did we pay for this house :MrEEk: (Yep, H's friend actually asked that! I let H field that one...)

Anyway it seemed to be a success, no one could tell the house had been strewn with dirty laundry and kids fighting just an hour or two before. The kids even pitched in and helped clean up before the guests arrived, so we had an atmosphere of teamwork and camaraderie instead of mutual annihilation.

H thanked me. I think I made major LB$ deposits. Unless I cancelled them out by not being overly receptive to his thanks. I'm still trying to keep defenses up so I don't repeat the cycle of thinking everything's great when nothing's been resolved.

I'm not sure that's a good approach. Ears, you saying you are now "all in" makes me wonder if I would be wiser to be "all in" as well. I'm still not sure where to draw the line between protecting boundaries and, um, being too cold? I dunno.

heh...you do boxes, too? LOL. I learned that trick when we had our house on the market (it didn't sell, but that's a good thing in retrospect), and I still use it.

Glad the evening worked out well.

You should accept praise when offered. A simple, "Yeah, I'm awesome, eh?" should suffice.

Hi jayne, thanks for posting, and the update! I do want to respond , but there's a lot of other posts, too, that you haven't addressed, I don't want to rush past. I'll follow your lead. Where do you want to go today? What's your plan?

Give me a little while to respond to the previous stuff. I'm at work right now, just peeking in here for a few minutes. It takes longer to think about my own stuff and reply, KWIM?

Thanks for dropping by though! I'll check your thread, see if you've found a way to check on the financial status.

How would you feel about just giving us a rough-draft level first response

Hey Jayne,
I love the way you cleaned house!!!

I used to do that when I had new babies and someone would ring to say they were coming for coffee. Get the washing basket and put everything in the lounge in it and put it in the laundry. Then all I had to do was run some hot water in the sink, put in the dishes, pull up the covers on the bed and hey presto! Took about 10 minutes.

Guest would arrive and usually help do the dished and I looked like a clean and tidy new mum *hee hee*

You mean my reply doesn't have to be perfect? Ok, rough draft (which means I may be curt, doesn't mean I'm angry or insulted):


Yes, it helps to remind myself that I purposely choose to spend time nurturing my kids instead of working every waking minute.


I'll need to remind myself about NITM, I check in occasionally but haven't followed closely lately. Yes I know my ENs: Conversation Conversation Conversation, and Affection is nice too, and FC. Oh yes, H&O is way up there with Conv., in my mind they are kinda one and the same but I guess not necessarily.


I'm not sure I understand the question. I have no control over what H does so I don't understand what I'd be willing to try. I don't see him doing anything he doesn't feel like doing, anyway.


Again I don't understand, I'd love him to talk to Steve. I don't fear it. He is reluctant, not me.

The thread that I had most recently read when I said I gotta stop reading about H's who have "seen the light", was - I forget the thread, but it was CC's response.


Exactly. But I've expressed my frustration, H&O, every which way but for leaving. Or cheating. Don't worry, I won't. But at this point there's no other way to say it or show it, and continuing to try is just nagging and LBing. What other choice is there other than to suck it up, unless he will talk to Steve.

It hurts to read about guys who *have* gotten it.

How does this feel? Wonderful or what?



Jayne, wow, I know what it feels like to have asked for something time and again, and see the request ignored. Oh, man. But jayne, this is a new day. Does it feel new and different to you, full of opportunity? What about humoring yourself a little bit, do you ever try that? Does it help? I don't know if any of these ideas will help, but I'm hoping to get YOU thinking, maybe some new solution will pop in there that you haven't thought of before?

Jayne, you still sound tired. Are you getting any filling up anywhere? What do you like to do to feel refreshed? I love listening to music, going to church or meetings, even going to Weight Watchers LOL. I like being around folks who are so excited about what they are doing. Are your confereces that you go to kind of like that?

Have you already broken it down, asked really specifically? Would this be honest, or does it need some tweaking? "Honey, I love it when you call me when you're on your way home, so I can put the lights on for you. I love just hearing your voice, and I love that I have you to share my day with, too."

Have you read the Friends of Good Conversation article lately? Does that help?

I hear what you're saying. But I just don't want to anymore. I no longer want to talk to him.

No, no one else, not getting filled except for reading here and browsing GSD ads.

You have mail

Jayne, I hear that you don't feel willing to work on conversation with your H. I also hear that you're not getting your conversation needs met IRL, either. Did I get it right? Did I get it all?

I can see how that would make sense, because you've tried and now you're tired. That's what happens when our givers take over, right? You give at work, home with the kids, to his family and your family who visit, get together a big party for folks last minute, unpacking the house, it keeps going and going.

Jayne, have you been this tired before, in the past. I find that I keep unintentionally act in the same cycles over and over. But like you remind me, I'm different this time, so I can make different choices.

How go you usually move through these cycles? How about setting a few small, attainable goals? Something you're already good at, like taking a vitamin daily, and drinking your water? That's how I remind myself that I'm whole and complete, and have everything it takes to move myself through. What works for you?

Sorry, jayne, just realized that maybe you don't want to move through this yet, I shouldn't assume that. What do you want to do from here? If you just rest a bit, maybe these things would work themselves out? Are you being O&H with your family through this?

I just got concerned when you said that you aren't being filled in any part of your life, outside of the board and the German Shepherd Dog sites. How would you feel about joining a church, or reconnecting with God in a way that's meaningful for you? How about making IRL family friends with some of the families at your sons' activities? I think that you had friends in your old neighborhood, I remember you mentioning the neighbors.

Do you think that part of what's going on is that you've got too much going on at the same time? New job, new country, new home, new town, new schools, holidays (always stressful), etc. Would it help to look at the next 3 or 4 months and see some hope that it will be a less stressful period, so you can be optimistic about feeling better soon?

Also, are you on ADs?