You're in a tough situation. The reality is that you simply have to suck it up until the legal wheels get rolling.

Having two fathers requesting that this man stay away is very big. I would approach CPS together.

Call them together and let them know you're both concerned and that she simply took the kids without either of your approval and that you are both concerned, especially after SDD's call.

OR I could be wrong on this and the best thing to do is to simply chill till the lawyer's do something.

But find out if this guy does have a background. If he does, then get an order that he is not to be brought around the kids.

The courts do get protective of kids being thrust into adulterous affairs. They may not care about adultery when it comes to rewarding custody, but they can certainly order that OP stay away until custody is decided.

Talk to your lawyer about this.

You guys may be able to get an attorney to represent the kids.

The one in my case had a very balanced approach, though I still think she sided with the ex overall (let the kids move away) BUT she did recommend that I get significant time with the kids and that's what ended up happening.

So I don't have 50/50, but I'm not far from it and she did leave hope for 50/50 down the road.

Your emotions are very high right now. Freaking out is normal because you feel a threat to your child. Just cross your fingers that this guy isn't some sort of molestor and do what you need to in terms of legal maneuvering.

I freaked out the first time I found out there was a man sleeping over where my kids were. I had a ton of anxiety over it and worried about the possibility of sexual abuse.

The sad reality is that you can't do anything about it.

The statistics are scary. Kids are much, much, much more at risk of being sexually abused by someone other than their biological father.

No woman consciously brings a sexual predator into their home.

Yet it happens at an alarming rate.

But there is one limit you can set your foot down on and that is any sort of physical abuse. If you ever find out that this man ever lays a hand on your kid, take hard action.

So you know what to do if you find out he has laid a hand on your kid.

But all you can do right now is wait for the legal stuff to play itself out.

WW called me tonight to let me talk to my son. It was so heart-wrenching. I was so happy to her his voice though. We had a pretty decent conversation for him being a 2.5 year-old. I didn't think he'd stay on the phone for as long as he did so he must really miss me.

After I talked to our son, I talked to WW. I asked if I could have our son over tomorrow and she said that I was delusional!! I asked when I'd get to see him again and she said "not until we get something in writing." I said "get what in writing?" She replied that until there is an accepted court ordered visitation agreement, she will not let me see him again because "she can't trust me to give our son back to her again." Then we began to argue the usual stuff:

WW: "...I am the MOTHER!"
ME: "And I am the Father and have as much right to be with our son as you do."
WW: "I want him to spend time with you, but you are delusional and are going to try to keep our son away from me if I give him to you."
ME: "I am not going to keep you away from him. I just feel that he should stay in our home..."
WW: "You FEEL?!? What do YOUR feeling have to do with anything? This is about our son!!"

...Round and round and finally I hung up on her because it was going no where and I knew that she was about to hang up on me so I did the pre-emptive hang up first. Maybe we both hung up at the same time... Who knows.

Anyway, if she sticks to her guns, which she WILL, I won't see our son again in weeks because we're not going to get a court date for at least 2-4 weeks, if that fast...

I really hope our judges here look down upon what she is doing as they did in EPH525's case. My attorney didn't appear too phased by what she was doing but I'm going to tell him what she said and find out what he thinks about it if she holds to her position.

I wonder what her attorney told her.. She obviously didn't change her mind about letting our son see me after speaking to her attorney. Ugh. Back to twiddling the old thumbs.

I did get a fathers' rights book today from the library so I'll be reading up on my rights.

Erich, are you checking out the OM's background?

Just a thought - who looks after the kids when your WW is out of the apartment? Does she leave them with anyone?

I'm not up on US law, but what's stopping you from doing the same thing she did - using the police to pick him up from wherever he's staying because your WW is keeping you from visiting him?

Also, if you do that, and you keep him at your home, which is your legal residence, any claim that you are hiding him from your WW really wouldn't hold water. Also ensure someone watches him AT HOME rather than another location (to defeat the same claim).

Does she work? How is she getting by?

What have you done to inform the housing people about the reality of your situation.

And a custody conference won't be set for possibly months.

Your first hearing will be a scheduling conference. They'll bring you in, ask the two lawyers if they can hammer something out, and then schedule mediation. They'll then schedule a PL hearing (pendente lite) which is more than likely what your permanent order will be.

The PL hearing will be a temporary order and they will push you to make it permanent because you are nothing more than a number in the hundreds of cases they have to deal with and they want you to settle.

You're just another sob story for these folks.

That's why you can't settle at a PL hearing.

But you MUST record these conversations! You're in a one party state! Take advantage of her telling you that you can't see your son and get it on tape!

You absolutely should not have to wait to see your son till you have something in writing!

Get her recorded!

Next phone conversation!

Why can't you go get your son?

This is ridiculous! It's female entitlement of the worst order!

"I'm the mother"????

It shows that she thinks that that's how things go.

It isn't.

You be different than her other exes.

Record this entitled woman and save the evidence!

Play her telling you you can't see your son and play it at the scheduling conference.

This cannot stand!

Keep in mind that you could be getting recorded as well.

Any message you leave can be played back.

Be careful with emails as well.

She is hurting her chances at custody. You need to be getting her on tape saying these things. Make sure your lawyer is a bulldog. If not, one of the best father's rights law firms is in your state, Cordell and Cordell. Even if you do not retain their services, check out his book, Your Civil War, A Father's Guide to Winning Custody.

Yes, I have. Didn't find anything. I'm continuing to dig deeper though.

I've considered doing this and I could probably pull it off, but I've been counseled by my attorney and others on this forum to not play tug-of-war with my son.

The game plan is to continue to document her refusal to let my son and I see each other and hope that the judge will see her as hostile and unreasonable and award me custody...

She receives about $700/month child support for other two kids. Her rent is subsidized, and she's probably back on WIC and food stamps. She can survive as long as the car doesn't break down or something unexpected. Her OM also offered to help out monetarily...


Already tried this. They couldn't care less. They said they only use her income, not mine....


I'll die before I settle. Don't worry about that. I'll fight to the BITTER END FOR MY SON!!


I already have her email response telling me that I can't see my son. All I have is a cell phone. Do they make something that can record cell phone conversations?


Yes, I could. I could hide by her apartment at the time when she arrives home from dropping off her kids to their Dad's and grab my son and walk away while she's going from the car to the apartment but I thought our game plan was to let her dig a hole by documenting her unwillingness to let me see my son so that the judge will deem her unreasonable.. You still think this is a good plan?


I'll work on a way that I can get her recorded. Today was a fluke that she actually called. I'm guessing that her attorney told her to let me talk to my son on the phone...

But I do have the email already. I'll try to bait her some more with the emails. I send her one every day asking for her to let me see my son..

My lawyer is not known as a bulldog. But he is well respected and is even a municipal judge. He just practices law on the side now. I figured this man would do the trick.

I've been told that Cordell and Cordell are not respected by the judges in my area. But I'm willing to check out his book. I have another book that I checked out at the library about father's rights.

I'm going to speak to my attorney next week about my wife's latest pronouncements and see what he says. I have filed the motion to have my son placed back in my custody at my house. This will be a separate hearing held as soon as we can get a court date. Hopefully in 2-4 weeks.

EPH525, If you are out there, will you please tell me whether your ex-wife disappeared with your kids BEFORE or AFTER a temporary custody agreement had been reached?

I've been reading that the temporary custody agreement will tend to give physical custody to the parent who currently has physical custody of the child, which in my case is my hostage-holding WW.

I'm hoping that the court goes by where our son has lived the longest in recent history instead of where his mother has snatched him to in the last week. I think I remember my attorney saying that they will favor the family home that I am still living in since it was my son's home for the past 2.5 years.

Not sure. I'm a little worried.

It was before.

erich,

The article I gave you was a caution against agreeing to something temporary which places your son in her care.

The secret is to never agree to that. So don't.

Stick to your guns. And it is good to have a lawyer who is respected.

I've also seen a real contrast with attorneys who understand family law and know what works and what doesn't.

My attorney understands it.

There were many times that the ex's attorney was putting on a dog and pony show while mine sat quietly.

I wanted her to "say something!"

But she just gave me a signal.

I can't argue with the results. Family needs "bulldogs" that are effective, not ones that bark a lot.

So stick with the attorney who has a good rep and is respected.

Follow his advice and be patient. If he has a motion to return your son, then that's all you can ask for.

Make sure you always answer graciously about your exW and that you want your son to have a good relationship with both parents. Encourage and talk about regular contact with both parents.

Remember this isn't a possession and your son needs mom just as much as he needs dad. So talk about frequent visits for him with mom.

You want him to see her at least one day a week and every other weekend. That's a minimum unless she's really unfit and a druggie or brings OM around and he is that way or abusive.

Like Marshmallow said, it was before. (Hey Marsh)

One thing, even though you have a cell phone it probably has a speaker phone function. Use this when you talk to her and keep a digital recorder beside you and record the conversation.

And Mel, it is highly unfair about the bias towards mothers over fathers - thus all the hoops that have to be jumped through. More than anything it's the legal system you have to "manipulate."


Oh, and when I started doing the home vs. mommy's place thing my exWW went berserk over that but I just kept right on doing it.

Marshmallow is right, it was BEFORE. Snatching his kids enraged the judge and he gave primary custody to Eph525.

Oh, it was a WOMAN judge at the first hearing, which totally surprised me that she did this.

A lawyer told me that women judges can be very tough on women.

Why?

Think about it. Here's a woman who has risen in her profession to become a judge. She's worked hard to get to where she is and has had to deal with the glass ceilings and everything else.

How is she, a woman who has busted her butt, going to feel about a woman who clearly wants to simply mooch of the ex while working a menial job and not doing anything to improve herself or her kids' circumstances?

So female judges can sometimes be really hard on women and they hate seeing it when women play games.

One of Judge Judy's pet peeves, for example, is women who bring in a deadbeat boyfriend, support him, and then cry victim when he doesn't live up to expectations and simply keeps mooching.

Those women aren't victims (in her eyes).

She might have shown her hand a little here. If she saw her attorney, and then twice made the point of calling you "delusional" you can expect to hear that sort of stuff in court. Might want to parrot it back at her so it is a tie.

No. Don't sink to name calling.

She calls you delustional, ill tempered and the rest then all you have to do is not be that way and never let anyone associated with the legal system see you that way.

It's really that simple.

If she rants and raves he's crazy yet everyone who meets him sees him as rational, then she's the one who appears out of whack.

So be above the fray.

The thing is, people can see things for themselves, especially in the legal system. You don't need to be constantly pointing it out. It's clearly evident on its own.

Here you have a man in his first marriage, wanting to be with his son.

You have a woman on her 3rd marriage, looking to get out, and with 3 kids from 3 different men.

Says much about HER stability.

It doesn't need to be pointed out.