Hi L4.

Just an observation - your H is obviously conflicted. If he really wanted to end the M, he could have done that by now. 8 weeks is still very early in this. I have no doubt he cares for you deeply and is trying to deal with the trauma. Emotionally separating himself and talk of splitting up is likely a defense mechanism.

This forum often talks about earning trust. One item I have often struggled with is respect. I think it is good that you are there for him and put your own feelings aside but try not to be a doormat. You can apologize for raising your voice or using harsh tones but don't apologize for what you believe in. Nothing is wrong with agreeing to disagree...

At eight weeks, my emotions were all over the map - desperation, anger, avoidance, etc. Nothing here is out of the ordinary.

Hang tough, L4. Take pride in the fact that you are fighting for your M. You have friends here to help you through this.

- Sh0cked

I don't state this to my H. If I do, it's prefaced as I can't stand what I've done and that I can't stand that I've jeopardized our M. I can't stand not knowing if we will be together because that's what I want. But I never imply that I can't stand his ups and downs, his asking questions, his anger and pain. I'm in no position to make demands on how he responds to my betrayal. If I find myself unfairly angry for any reason, I save those revelations for you folks here.

You're very early in your recovery, but here's what might help if you combine Mark's "what" questions with your heart commitment to "do anything to help your H heal". (Also, Road's suggestion that 'apologizing every day is bad' plays into this idea, too.)

Your H is showing good to great signs that you seem to be missing or at least downplaying. Here is an idea of how to tweak your perspective a bit to help you appreciate many things you have going for you:

1) He did not totally-physically-immediately 'kick you to the curb' and file for Plan D the next day.....almost, but not quite!

2) You are not in denial about what you've done....this is HUGE in the chance for your beginning recovery.

3) Your H is showing emotions and is not entirely indifferent....ambivalent and unsure at times, but if he were indifferent, he would not be angry, seeking help, or even speaking to you.

How can you appreciate this status more and use it to you advantage?

One way would be to see the positives instead of thinking "I can't stand flapping in the wind, never knowing if I'm in or out, up or down, in Plan A or headed to Plan D."

If you can, try to think I'm so grateful that my H is processing this with me and I don't care if my plans are continuously up in the air.....this is only for a season and the big picture plans will be worth a little unsettledness (is that a word) in this life-long process.


Here's an example of what I mean:

I want, but if my H isn't participating in trying to save the M, will it matter?

* He's being nice to me,
* (he's) communicating with me more,
* and we're having SF,

Your above statement is ambivalent when compared with the 3 points I've emphasized. Is he or is he NOT doing those 3 things? If so, how can you say he is NOT participating in trying to save your M. It's the only way he knows for now and instead of downplaying it, it seems you should grasp it, appreciate it, and build on it/them gradually.

but he's not actively working on our M as far as uncovering ENs and working on our couple-ness. At least not yet and I think (wrong?) that's understandable just 8 weeks post-confession.

You answered your own question....it's early. Be patient. Grab hold of the baby steps he is making. Continue to work on yourself, your inner talk, your internal breakdowns of the past that you now have a source for solving, slowly but surely.

Look to the future. See yourself recovering, even recovered and begin to act "as if" like Romans 10:17 says "Call things which be not as though they were". As you progress in this, you'll realize that you have many accomplishments under your belt that you do/did not see. As this happens, your need to apologize every day will diminish. If you're counting your blessings, you will see less negative....and as the negatively towards yourself lessens, your self-loathing (constant apologies) will decrease.

It may be difficult in the start, L4, and you'll stumble in the beginning, but you can do this.

You might start by making a few lists in your journal:

* Mark's questions and answers regarding "what" allowed the A
* Good things you're allowing bad things to overshadow
* What you can do to combine both to help you understand WHAT happened and how you can continue to help your H heal without beating yourself over the head continuously.


I have offered in every joint situation to stay behind or not attend if it will be better for H. What's frustrating is when he says, "I don't know," and leaves me flapping in the wind. I am a planner and I want to know what my day/week is going to look like so I can make the proper arrangements for myself, the family, and anyone else involved. So while I have been doing this, it goes against my grain to sit back and not bug him about whether or not he wants me to accompany him. And when he has said it's okay if I go with him, he says so with such low enthusiasm. I don't know if he's allowing me to escort him because he feels sorry for me or if he really wants my company. [/quote]

What if you change your self talk? See the fact that he "allowed" you to go as a privilege and capitalize on it. Use the opportunity to show him what a wise choice it was, regardless of his original reason, in spite of the fact that it was last minute, or even if he seemed to have a bad attitude.

You cannot control him, L4 (I know you know this, but it seems like we always forget and then get tripped up by our own expectations due to our own forgetfulness).

Even if he waits til the last minute causing you stress, seize the moment and be grateful, thankful, even enthusiastic about going....and make it a great event since your attitude IS in your control. (Do everything you can to control LB's, too.)

Sorry I don't have more time. I can't post from work, (which is one aspect I could help you with via email because I can't post what my work is since I told many family members about this web site before I knew these forums were here ~~~ and I'd hate for them to figure out who I am and what my H has done before we tell them ~~~ if we ever do.)

Thanks for your reply, L4. I may be posting in haste since I am short on time so if I'm saying anything that seems confusing, just ask and I'll try to clarify tonight.

Ace

This was a love buster too...

Not what he said, but your Independent behavior.

IB is a very powerful Love Buster. It is what leads to affairs in the first place since if you never acted without discussing anything with your husband first, you would certainly never have fallen into an affair.

Even without reading here, without understanding the Basic Concepts and without knowing the list of Love Busters, IB is still a Love Buster.

And to a BS it is maybe the most important of all of them. It was IB that characterized the affair, that led to the affair and that allowed the affair to continue. It was IB that emptied the BS's LB$. ANY IB is huge to the BS.

Here's what happens to a BS when a FWS does something that effects them without consultation...

* Why didn't she check with me?
* She NEVER checks with me.
* She's always doing stuff without checking with me.
* She hides things from me all the time.
* I wonder what else she is hiding THIS TIME...

The solution to IB is POJA. It stops IB and resentment in its tracks.

When we act independently we are saying "I don't care about you, your feelings or what you think." It allows us to get our way by not bringing it up when we know our spouse might have a problem with what we want in the situation. It lets us hide things that might upset him/her. It gives us a way to circumvent their feelings. It causes us to keep secrets and leads to a secret second life. it is the CAUSE of affairs.

Angry Outbursts, Disrespectful Judgments, Selfish Demands, are all attempts to manipulate our spouse into giving us our own way in negotiations. Independent Behavior and Dishonesty seek to shut them out of our lives and show that we aren't even considering what they want and have already decided what we will do no matter how it affects them.

Independent Behavior and Dishonesty go hand in hand. The first leads to the second and sets us up to lie about what we are doing since we can only maintain IB if we lie about it.

It's the starting point for an affair if it is allowed to continue unchecked.

Mark

Thank you, Mark. I know IB is a LB. I didn't do this. My sister had asked if they could stay here and while I really wanted them to, I didn't say yes before I checked with my H. I checked with him and he said he felt like he had to say yes because it was expected they could. I kept telling him we could say no, and I would support that, but I didn't understand why we couldn't since they stay with us often and because the cousins love being together. He couldn't produce a reason and realized it wasn't a big deal after all. I said the decision was his. And he said they could stay. He was reluctant about it, but said he would allow it for the one evening. So they stayed one evening.

The LB was that I yelled during the conversation when it turned to what I felt was an attack on my relationship with my family. This is an issue with us and something we need help with.

I have come to understand this. And I am trying to be completely aware and tell my H everything -- what I'm doing, what I'd like to do, seeking his thoughts on anything from how to fix the house to what gifts to get everyone for Christmas and what to do about my job. I want his input and thoughts and I respect his opinions. I've been trying to show him this.

Two things regarding this very issue of IB...

The topic of my family came up again a week ago. I know this is a problem for him (and thus us) and have been aware of it for a long time, especially since last August when we had a knock-down drag-out fight about it. He said I always pick my family. (He talks in absolutes. It's "always", "never", "no one", "everyone", etc.) I told him that's not true. He said it was. I proceeded to give him three recent examples where I "picked" his wishes over something my family wanted. He realized I was right. So while I'm doing something important for him that goes against what I want to do, he isn't recognizing it until I literally spell it out for him. I'm okay with that in the overall scheme of things, currently. He has bigger things on his mind now. Just bothered me that I am doing something he wants and he isn't seeing it.

The other was this last Wednesday. Minutes before I was to leave for orientation at my new part-time job, I read an email from my former boss about a job that I'd be perfect for. I asked my H what I should do -- this full-time job opportunity has my name written all over it and offers twice as much as the part-time job I just got, yet I was on my way out the door for the new job. H offered virtually no advice. As I was leaving, he said, "I can't tell you what to do because you need to act for yourself. You may be on your own soon so I can't tell you what to do. Make your own decisions based on the fact that soon you may be having to take care of yourself without me." It came out of the blue. I wanted his thoughts because he's my husband and what I do affects him directly, and I wanted his thoughts because I respect his professional advice. I left in tears. When I returned several hours later, he apologized if he made me sad. I said he did make me sad because what he thinks is important to me. He said he wants to make sure I'm looking out for myself. We didn't talk any more about it.

While I want to live and am trying to live and make decisions as a couple, he is telling me I need to live and think as a single woman. It's conflicting. Hard to live and think both ways at once especially when what I want is as a couple.

This means a lot to me, Sh0cked. Often I feel alone. Then I come here. And while us WSs are in the minority here, I feel a strange comfort when I log on to MB. Not coddled. But a sense of trying to understand. Thanks for sticking with me.

Your wisdom is invaluable, Mark. I wish I was familiar with it before I had my affair. What you are offering is having a big impact on me. Very big. Huge.

"The other was this last Wednesday. Minutes before I was to leave for orientation at my new part-time job, I read an email from my former boss about a job that I'd be perfect for. I asked my H what I should do -- this full-time job opportunity has my name written all over it and offers twice as much as the part-time job I just got, yet I was on my way out the door for the new job. H offered virtually no advice. As I was leaving, he said, "I can't tell you what to do because you need to act for yourself. You may be on your own soon so I can't tell you what to do."



Hidden in all of this if I remember correctly. Wasn't your OM and your old job affair related? Didn't the OM and you work together?

You're correct, TheRoad. My A last spring was with a co-worker. The FOM no longer works for the company. He quit in July at the same time that I was laid off. This position that my former boss contacted me about is with another company all-together -- one that uses my old company as a vendor, but it is not at my old company.

Have you in fact ever (even though not always) chosen to side against him in some way in regard to your family? He might be reacting to something in the past and not the present when you have these knock down drag out fights over your family.

I know in my own life, my SIL (my wife's twin) can give me problems. She is working on her 4th husband, her third being an abusive alcoholic who moved in with her before he was divorced from his second wife. Though SIL is a completely different person today than she was in those days, she still has the ability to trigger me in ways that are hard to even explain.

If my wife and I have plans for the day, it can be assured that SIL will call early in the day, at some point later in the day and at least one more time near the end of the day without fail. This is especially true if we are on a trip together or just up to our ears in a home project that requires both of us.

SIL was my greatest ally in breaking up the affair but she still makes me nuts when she interrupts conversations at the worst moment, delays our departure for some place we planned to go or just decides to chat just as we curl up on the sofa with a glass of merlot.

If you ever used your family as an excuse to cover for your A, it can be a huge issue for him as well. Not suggesting that is the case, but if he even suspects it to be true, it will be a problem for him.

If your family, or any member of it has ever been critical of him and you failed to openly support him at the time, this can be an issue too.

Just brain storming here...

Now about the job thing…

If your old job (or this new job at the old place of employment) was where you met and or carried on your A with OM, you need to avoid it like the plague if you want any hope of your H improving his attitude over time. If the place has anything at all to do with your A you should NEVER mention any thoughts of returning there.

Work hard at killing the love busters, L4. A BS has a LB$ that is so full of holes it is hard to fill up. Even those who have fought for the marriage and won and are now in recovery have a hard time with what happened. If your H is on the verge of bankruptcy anything that withdraws units from his LB$ can really send him over the edge.

Think about Dr Harley’s 3 states of mind in marriage for a minute. For someone in a state of INTIMACY it is easy to shrug things off if they seem unfair or in any way not what you want. Your GIVER runs the show and is willing to give away the farm to make your spouse happy.

But eventually the TAKER makes an appearance and demands equal time. This is a state of CONFLICT where you want to fight for what YOU want from the relationship and you don’t even really care what your spouse wants. You desire to GET something from your spouse and really don’t care about giving anything back.

In WITHDRAWAL you don’t care about giving anything at all but neither do you care if you get anything from your spouse. You simply don’t care. Your GIVER is packed away and your TAKER is not even looking for anything from your spouse.

This is where an affair happens. Your spouse is shut out of your life and you aren’t taking deposits into their account in your Love Bank. But you also aren’t making any deposits into theirs either, at least not on purpose. (Though if DS is high on their list of ENs, just keeping the house clean can work magic-just an example) You basically stop taking deposits because it conflicts with what you are doing in the affair. Letting your spouse make you feel good and building love for them is counterproductive to carrying on an affair. It removes the justification for it and makes it hard to keep it up if you are feeling in love with the person you are betraying.

But assuming his LB$ was not completely full before he found out about the A, once he found out, most of what was there vanished since an affair is the highest form of IB. If he was already in a state of CONFLICT, then any love buster of any kind drops him into a state of WITHDRAWAL and he pretty much shuts you out completely.

Now, as you do more to make deposits, he creeps back into CONFLICT but still hasn’t made it into INTIMACY. His TAKER is still in charge and he is not doing much to make deposits. He is also out of practice at making deposits if you prevented him from making any during the affair. So he isn’t giving anything to you at all.

But when you do make some progress and make enough deposits, he teeters on INTIMACY and all seems well with the relationship. But any love buster and he’s back into CONFLICT and can free fall into WITHDRAWAL with very little effort.

For many BS they are the one who must suck it up and overcome this dynamic in early recovery. It usually falls to the BS to carry the load at first because it is normally the BS that has learned about this stuff and is using the techniques to lead the relationship upward. But in your case it is you that must do this leading because YOU are the one that has learned this stuff and he doesn’t know about INTIMACY, CONFLICT and WITHDRAWAL. He knows zilch about his Love Bank and cares not a bit for understanding Love Busters right now.

And if you try to educate him while he is in a low state of CONFLICT into WITHDRAWAL, you will drive him away at the speed of light.

So, since you are here and you are seeking help and you are the one we can help change things, it must be YOU that does the changing for now. You get to take the lead in recovery and apply Marriage Builders methods to make things improve. Eventually he might get on board with MB ideas, but for now, you are here so you are who we get to keep beating up….er….helping…



Mark

I read your 12/22 response shortly after you wrote it, Ace. You hit the mark. In life I am usually so positive, the glass is almost always half-full in my world. So why am I not seeing and really appreciating anything good that is coming out of this mess I've created? I should be holding onto those moments and my H's forward efforts.

I'll try. Your perspective on this is better than what I've been bringing to the table.

He is doing those things. And I will.

Great advice.

I took your words about this to heart, Ace, and I did this throughout the holidays. I was clear when I wanted to accompany him and when he let me, I was gracious, good company, and attentive to him without being smothering nor being disrespectful of what I know he's going through. I was aware that everyone would be watching our interactions so I made sure I looked great and checked in with him often so he knew he was on my mind, but didn't hang all over him. I didn't want to embarrass him in front of friends and family. I feel good about how things went at the various functions we attended. And I think by the last few events, he felt better about having me with him.

Your advice is very clear and haste-less. Thank you for taking the time to help me. I'm working to apply your words of wisdom.

So glad to hear about your successes L4. Many of us have shared ideas, but YOU are doing the work. Keep it up!

Ace

I can't think of a time that I directly defied my H and picked family over him when he's been clear about what he wants. What I have done though which is bad, is I've witheld info that I felt wasn't critical but that I knew would still irk H if he knew. I have stopped this and am forthright with my H on everything now -- including my family's issues.

The conflicts come because my H likes his privacy and is pretty independent. I, on the other hand, am very social and my sisters are two of my best friends. For example, H isn't a fan of having people hanging out at our house very much. I, however, think having a houseful of folks, sleeping everywhere, working in the kitchen, playing impromptu games of Yahtzee, and staying up late doing puzzles -- visiting and laughing and sharing -- is great. H isn't what I would call a loner, but he's territorial while my family and I are more 'what's-mine-is-yours' mentality. When we have a conflict about this, sometimes H gives in, sometimes I give in, sometimes we compromise. I feel, however, when he compromises and allows more for what I want, that even though he agrees to "our" decision, he'll sulk and make sure I know he's not happy about what we're doing. As I've mentioned before this is a big thing we know we need to work on.

I never did this.

Critical, not that I'm aware of. Teasing, probably. Both of our family can be sarcastic and teasing. I'm sure I haven't defended H as he would have liked when my family has teased him. More often I'm a target of teasing within my family -- always have been. And my H will jump in and join on their side, ribbing me and laughing with them about me. Not every time. But I can't think of a time in our 25-years of knowing each other when H has actually stood up for me among my family. I have stood up for him --both to my family and his but not every time. (Funny that it's easier for me to stand up for others than it is for me to stand up for myself.)


This new company isn't tied to the A, but it's close enough where I can see what you're saying. There is an indirect connection and it would require working occassionally with people in other states who know the FOM. What was hard about this interaction H and I had is if I was single, I would go for the position. It's a great company, great pay, great benefits, and is a family-friendly company. I am married and am living as a married woman, but when my H makes comments like he did, I wonder if I'm being naive and if I should be thinking differently to make sure I can take care of myself. But you're right on this one. I'll walk away from it.


This is indeed what happened.


It's interesting (and appreciated) that he's made more deposits into my LB$ since I confessed than he did before. I'm also doing what I can to deposit and deposit into his without smothering.

I've witnessed this.

Hard to hold my tongue, but I do.

I put on the armor and keep coming back for more so I must want the "help". I'm lucky to have y'all.

I had a tough day and I can't tell anyone about it but you folks here.

The FOM and I used to talk a lot about spirituality, religion, and our respective relationships with God -- before and during our PA. Since my confession, H is having problems with things church-related and he has a real problem resolving in his mind how I can be Christian and have an A. So we don't talk about it because he believes I am a hypocrite.

I was listening to the Christian radio station this morning and they were talking about the last time you felt real love from someone. It hit me hard, that I don't know if anyone other than my children really loves me. I began even questioning God's love. Deep down I know God loves me, but I was questioning it and what I was perceiving as my whole undeserved relationship with God and Jesus Christ.

I go to my H about everything now, but feel I can't about this because of his current contempt for the church. No one within our church other than our pastor knows about our situation so I don't want to bring this to fellow church members. Which is where the FOM comes in. We used to talk a lot about our Christian beliefs. We differed in our levels of conservativism, but at the heart we supported each other in prayer and conversation. This probably helped us get too close and might have contributed to the EA which led to the PA. But I always respected FOM's thoughts on this. Seems ludicrous now. But this morning I was upset with myself for how I missed FOM's spiritual counsel. I don't want to think about him for ANYTHING.

I don't want to share any of this with H. I don't want to think about FOM in any capacity. I'm concerned about my doubts in God's love. I don't want to go to my pastor because I feel stupid talking about God's grace after everything I've done. (I may feel differently tomorrow, but tonight my shame is winning out.) I'm a little better about it all this evening. But any thoughts on how to handle this if it happens again? I'll take advice on the God part and/or when I think about the FOM in a way that is not negative. I know I've been putting on a show today since H is leaving tomorrow for three days on business and I want him to think of me not sappy and weepy. So I give it to y'all so you can tell me to get over it and move on. I thank you in advance for the smack upside the head.

L4,

As an old Sunday school teacher from way back I've had some interesting opportunities to share what God's love and forgiveness is all about over the years. Sometimes one even takes place that you just never could foresee and it lays the ground work for the voice of God to break through into a person's life...

One of those times happened as I taught my class a few years ago. We are still a small church but in those days we were meeting in a school auditorium on Sunday mornings. I carried the Sunday school to and from the building every week. We were paying rent every week that covered one class room and the auditorium so we only had one class. In this class were 4 year old kids and 12 year old near adults and every age in between.

It was one of those days when many less experienced teachers would have thrown in the towel and sent the whole class to sit with Mom and Dad. "Sit down! Be quiet! Keep your hands to yourself!..." I repeated these phrases several dozen times until I finally took a large book, slammed it onto the floor and waited for the silence that followed.

I told the kids, about 30 of them, that since we seemed to have so much trouble sitting still and being quiet, we would be spending the next 40 minutes practicing exactly those skills.

As We sat in silence I looked down at the basket of fresh chocolate chip cookies my wife had baked for the kids that morning. If there were ever a day that no treats had been earned, this was it. And then it came to me that THIS was what God's love and forgiveness is all about.

So I called on one girl in the back of the room who had been a thorn in my side all morning and asked her by name if she deserved to have a cookie. She hung her head and whispered "No."

"Come get one any way," was my reply and as she moved forward in disbelief, I called another by name and repeated the process. By now the shrewd ones could see what was up and so I switched the game on them and asked who had earned a cookie. Several kids raised their hands and I ignored them and called a half dozen more to the front to receive their unearned rewards.

Finally, as the last of the kids were invited to join in on the treats I began to tell them that none of them deserved a treat that day, but they got one because of my love for them. I told them that none of us have earned the right to receive anything from God, but that didn't stop Him from sending us the greatest treat of all when He Himself became one of us and died so that we might have peace with him.

Two full time missionaries, a missionary nurse and a youth pastor were in the room that day. None of them were over 12 at the time...

They GOT IT, L4. Being a Christian has nothing to do with being good. It has everything to do with being forgiven. If it was all about doing what God says is right, none of us stands a chance. We ALL fall so hopelessly short of what he expects of us.

David failed to do what God called him for. He was the king and instead of doing that job he decided to be selfish and self centered and do whatever he felt like. When it was time for him to lead his army off to war, he sent someone else in his place and stayed home to enjoy his own comfort while his men fought for him in battle.

He probably began to justify what he had done and was pretty much arguing with God over why he wasn't leading his men as he was called to do. He probably said things like "I've won my share of battles while other people sat around and watched me fight. Remember Goliath? I killed him when nobody else would even fight him." He might have said "I never get to do anything for myself. I'm always having to be a leader, the strong one, the one who keeps the whole country together.." He cold have argued that "I've been doing things for all these people for my whole life and none of them is in the least grateful for what I have done for them. I'll bet most of them don't even know what I've done and if they did, they wouldn't have any idea of how much I have sacrificed for them. Well, I'm sick of it and it's time I did something for ME..."

Whatever his reasoning, he was in self justification mode and so when he walked out onto his roof on a hot spring evening and saw a woman who he found attractive, it was an easy leap to send for her and set about seducing her. Imagine that scene, the great King David, the most handsome of men, the most powerful in the land, the richest, the most respected, the slayer of giants expending his efforts to seduce the wife of another man...who wasn't there for her. He was in fact away at war, fighting for the very King who now tried to steal what belonged to him...


So David committed adultery. He tried to cover it up by having the woman's husband sent home and when that didn't work, he had him murdered.

And it cost David so much. His family was torn apart, the child of the affair died, another son raped his half sister and was then killed by her brother. David's son led a rebellion and nearly destroyed the kingdom and within a couple of generations the nation was divided, then conquered and nearly wiped from the face of the Earth.

But even after all that he had done and all that it cost him, David was called by God "a man after my own heart." David then wrote:

Paul was a murderer who thought he was doing the work of God. He was so convinced that he had earned God's favor. Yet he later calls himself the chief of sinners.

The best thing you could do for your husband right now would be to pray for him. Pray that God would show him His True Self, His love and mercy, His compassion and forgiveness. Pray that God would teach him that we each have to decide what to do with God and with Jesus Christ and that God doesn't care who might be worse than us since none of us is what He requires.









L4, do you think it would hurt or help to tell your husband that it was YOU that did wrong and that God did not fail? Would he grasp that it was your choices and those of OM that caused you to sin against him and not any failing by God; that you failed God and not the other way around...

Don't ever doubt God's love for you, L4. He loves you enough to die for you even though you don't deserve it.

He loves your husband the same way too...

Mark

L4,

You have one of the wisest posters sharing spiritual truths with you. That alone should help you begin to overcome your feelings of unworthiness.

Mark,

Thanks for that great post. I'm going to print it and share it with H as it is a wonderful overview of a discussion we've been having for a few weeks regarding King David's failings and God's depth of forgiveness.

Again, thanks!
Ace

Thank you, Mark. Thank you sooooooo much. Geez... Thank you.

L4,

Mark is a very tough act to follow. I think the advice he has given you is priceless.

I would like to offer you perhaps a different take on the possible job and your H's response. I would also like to comment on the issue of how you interact with your family and your H.

First the job issue. In someways I think his response is a test. Will you take independent actions? On another hand, I think if you took a full time job, it will help him. How? Well, my bet is he is still in conflict as you and others have said. IF you can take care of yourself, it is one dynamic he doesn't have to worry about. You may not realize this, but he fears you being dependent on him, and then doing to him what you have done before. He cannot bring himself to kick you to the curb and not support you. Suggesting to me, that he does love and care for you.

So taking this job could be a good thing IF you two talk about it, and discuss his fears. Does he fear another affair? I know the answer don't you? Does he fear that you will lose focus on him again and seek it else where? Does he fear that he cannot be the man you need? Does he fear that he appears to be a "sucker" for staying with you knowing that there have been two A's? Does he fear...?

My point, you are seeing his fears about himself as much or more than you are about you. He has not left, he is being a pretty good H as Ace pointed out. Yet, he is in conflict. Who is he in conflict with? Himself of course.

You can ease his conflict by gradually getting him to talk, by showing him he is the man you want, by talking with him and telling why and how you need him in your life. By you truly and honestly realizing he is the man you want to spend your life with. You cannot tell him "don't worry", or "you are fine as you are don't worry about yourself and your interactions with me".
He won't believe that, but he will believe your own revelations about yourself.

As for the religion part, no one said Christians don't sin. All one can do is to reduce the sins and seek forgiveness for those we do commit. Mark gave you powerful advice concerning this.

Finally about your family. While reading you account of how you and your sisters interact, I was smiling. I sounds like great fun. It sounds like you enjoy having them spread around your Home and the sounds and smells of cooking and laughing. What a gift you have.

BUT, let's look at this from your H's point of view, especially NOW. He knows he doesn't make you as happy. He knows when they are there your focus is on them, not him. He knows he should let you do these things because it brings you so much joy. Yet, he knows that when they are there he loses and he cannot possibly make you as happy. Now after the affair, this sense of failing to make you happy is stronger and thus your family's presence is probably more of a reminder.

I would also bet, although I might be wrong, that SF is not on the agenda when you have a house full of family and guests, nor is any other sort of personal intimacy as your focus is on the guests.

Now I have painted a rather gloomy picture with regard to your family's visits, other than your H does probably get joy in seeing you so happy. It is however a double edged sword for him.

IF, anything I have said has a ring of truth to it, perhaps you need to reexamine things and see if somehow he can be made more a part of them than he is presently.

Just thoughts.

God Bless,

JL

I agree.

A perspective I haven't tought of. I IMed my H this morning (he's traveling on business) and told him I wasn't going to pursue the job. He asked why and I said because it didn't offer much growth opportunity, we don't need me to take it, and because I got the impression he didn't want me to take it. (No, he didn't say that, but he was so uninterested.) When I told H my reasons, he replied, "I never gave you the impression I didn't want you there. The impression I gave was for you to look out for number one." Your angle could be correct, JL, and I need to really know if/what he fears in regards to my work at any job.

I need to be more consistant and direct in this.

Fantastic advice from Mark. Among H's problems with Christianity is that one can sin, ask forgiveness, and then all is just fine. I'm paraphrasing, but it's what I'm understanding from him.


Before our MC last fall, H stated that he knows I have more fun with my sisters and best girlfriend. I knew this was true then too, and had been for some time.

Wow. I think you're onto something, JL. This isn't a but, but it's additional info. He used to get along famously with my family. My parents have always treated him as a son. My older sister hasn't lived in the same state as us since H and I have been together, but my younger sister and him used to get along famously. She used to think he was a kick to hang with. That changed about 10 years ago when the three of us lived together for about 6 weeks and they've never really recovered. They are nice to each other because of me and our children, but they don't hang out and socialize like they used to.

Not always true, but that can be the case, for sure. Though SF was very little before my confession -- not near what I wanted -- it has been unbelievable since. Coincidentally we have had overnight guests only one night in the past three months.

I want this more than anything. I often feel in the middle. When I have to choose, I know I'm supposed to choose my H. During our bad years I didn't do so willingly. I'd fight to get it my family's way whenever possible.

Another illustration about this difference in family dynamics... A couple of weeks ago, from research my H did online about behaviors our son is exhibiting, we believe he may have Tourette Syndrome. It's not pronouced, but we're worried. My H asked that I say nothing to anyone. He wants the privacy contained to "our" family. This is a case where I really want to share with our extended family because I'd like their input on what they see, I'd like their support, and their prayers. But because my H wants differently, I'll abide by his wishes. In the meantime, it's eating me up. We have an appointment with the doctor Wednesday. I know DS will be fine regardless, but it's hard for me to hold this fear inside me when I know many in our lives would be supportive and keep private what we'd ask of them.

Once again, thanks for jumping in, JL. Your "just thoughts" are great insight.

"A perspective I haven't tought of. I IMed my H this morning (he's traveling on business) and told him I wasn't going to pursue the job. He asked why and I said because it didn't offer much growth opportunity, we don't need me to take it, and because I got the impression he didn't want me to take it. (No, he didn't say that, but he was so uninterested.) When I told H my reasons, he replied, "I never gave you the impression I didn't want you there. The impression I gave was for you to look out for number one." Your angle could be correct, JL, and I need to really know if/what he fears in regards to my work at any job."

Then why play games. Why not ask directly if he had fears concerns worries that job?

When you first mentioned this job you seemed to really want it. Then you said it was not that good of an opportunity to your BH.
This is confusing.

Which is it?