Great suggestion, catperson! We did something similar last week and it has helped. They really have kicked in a little more, but honestly, I did not feel strong enough earlier in this process to push it. Now I am stronger and I know they need to do more.
One thing I do struggle with is using guilt on them. I'll say to them that I can't do it all and I'm kind of left with it all because of WH, but I don't want to communicate it that way. So, I'm trying to fine tune that message to be more about how we have to work together as a family, rather than lay my resentment on them. It feels like a fine line...

Something a lot of people forget nowadays, though, is that WE are the parents, and THEY are the kids, which means we are SUPPOSED to tell them what to do. Not to make them happy, not to please them, not to make sure they don't suffer any hardship or consequences. It's our job as parents to prepare them for adulthood. You don't do that by trying to be nice to them or friends with them.

In other words, kids need for us to know our place in their lives. If we spend it trying to make them like us, we are hurting THEM.

If my daughter balks at something, I just give her 'that look' and say 'Do you really want to go there? Discuss what your responsibilities are? Because I'm pretty sure you'd end up with a lot MORE work than you have now.'

She gets it.

I agree, when they're grown, the boss isn't going to find a way to put thing delicately and balanced when he wants something done. He/She will say, "just do it."

This is an IMPORTANT lesson for kids. Also teaching them to drop the excuses. This is heavy on my mind right now because we're trying to enforce that with our 16 yr.-old nephew right now.

Me: What's the rule about your room?
Him: Has to be cleaned up before I leave everyday.
Me: Was it cleaned up this morning when you left?
Him: No, because I overslept.
Me: Doesn't matter, you're grounded.

Me: What time were you supposed to be home?
Him: 8:00.
Me: You weren't here were you?
Him: No, because I couldn't find a clock at their house.
Me: Doesn't matter, you're grounded.

He is VERY frustrated with us right now because we're going overboard to accept NO excuses. To teach him that his room being clean is his responsibility - no matter what, that he has to show up on time - no matter what.

Every day we ask him, "Do you get it yet?"

One of these days, he's gonna say, "yeah, I get it."

There is nothing wrong with giving your kids "jobs" to accomplish during the week. You don't even HAVE to tell them why. You don't owe them that. All they need to know is what their responsibilities include.

Something I did with D18 is that, every year, I would add a chore to her list. She started out with picking up her room; the next year, I added folding towels; then, filling dishwasher; then emptying dishwasher and wiping counters; then doing her own laundry; then mowing the back yard (so she'll get used to manual labor). Started when she was about 8, I guess, and added one new chore each year. She understands that the older she gets, the more responsibility she has - you get to have more control over your own life, but you also get to own up to more responsibility.

Hey, just a quick update. The internal and external splints are off my nose and I CAN BREATHE!!!!

I'm so excited! It looks better and I am feeling fabulous! Still in very dark Plan B and at times I miss that WH isn't trying to hunt me down, but the reality is I feel better and the kids and I are doing great!

Tonight is a visit night for them, but I think the pug and I will have a good time doing laundry and cuddling, so I think I will be just okey-dokey!

That's all for now!

BF439

I hope that visit night went ok for you BF and that your new nose looks fabulous. Plan B is a fantastic time to take care of yourself and do those things you have been putting off for years and will make you feel amazing. Well done!

A friend recommended After the Affair by Janis Abrahams Spring and I'm about 1/3 of the way through it.
It has some pretty excellent descriptions of what it's like for the BS and maybe the Ws, I'm not sure.
Has anyone else read it? I'm in Plan B, but I'd kind of like to see if I can get WH to read it. I could go a couple of routes, including friends and family who would willingly encourage it. In fact, the friend who recommended it is actually a friend of WH who was recently cheated on and doesn't feel comfortable emotionally reaching out to WH due to her own pain, but she thought it would be good for him, too.

What do you think -- should I try or let it go and let him find his own resources?

Thanks!
BF439

I think until he is no longer WH, but H, there's no point telling him anything. Rule here is do NOT try to educate a WS.

Hey, everyone... I haven't been posting much, because I guess I'm just in a holding pattern. I don't see myself getting much better and there seems to be no change in WH, either. Everyone just seems used to this and accepting his version (that the marriage was doomed and he's left -- get over it, BS).

I'm at MIL's this weekend with the children for a family birthday. They want to include me as much as possible, but of course, no one talks about what's happening. It just is.
I also imagine that since I'm up here, WH is off on a great weekend adventure with single-minded friends or with OW, which makes sense because he sees himself as single. Is that how is works? If one spouse says its over and I don't want to be married, you just aren't?

I guess I'm feeling low because I'm tired of being the only one on the planet (except my kids, I guess) who sees me as married. I can't even begin to think of myself as anything else. Maybe I should just go to the mediator with WH and get this over with.
I'm so hurt how little effort he put into trying to save our marriage. How little he thought of me and what is healthy for kids to just make this choice to leave.

I'm sorry it's not going better. What can you do at this point to change things? Is there anything you haven't tried?

Also, this will be a good time to try to focus on yourself, yes?

Hi bf.

Traveling with FWH on business last week, but wanted to see how you're doing. "Holding pattern," huh? Maybe as far as WH is concerned, but I see some activity--a beautiful new nose, a great new figure, party at MIL's showing you're still alive, kicking, and functioning as a good mom.

What else have you got planned that you would enjoy? What would you like to do in the evenings, once the kids are in bed? Are there sympathetic friends you could chat with? Person-to-person support was a godsend for me for many, many months, especially when H wouldn't talk to me or respond to my emails. He essentially plan B'd ME. It was awful.

I see you're reading "After the Affair." Good one. I read it too, along with any other book on the subject I could get my hands on. Of course, my then-WH wouldn't read anything about A's, marriage or recovery either. I didn't even ask him to. Not his kind of thing during a good period; would've been worse than worthless during his A. While actively wayward, they want no part of anything reasonable, rational, or beyond what they find personally gratifying. All that "freedom" doesn't allow for any self reflection, ya know. That comes later, after the A. Till then, all we can do is take care of ourselves, change ourselves in ways we know we need to improve, and give them time.

"I also imagine that since I'm up here, WH is off on a great weekend adventure with single-minded friends or with OW, which makes sense because he sees himself as single. Is that how is works? If one spouse says its over and I don't want to be married, you just aren't?"

It is SO HARD not to think about what our waywards are doing while we're feeling alone and deserted. How could they? The question haunts us.

But it doesn't have an answer. Even they don't really know, and they aren't motivated to think about it, like we are. It might as well be a bona fide alien abduction. The real them has been sucked out and only their dark side has been left to inhabit their bodies. But because this is NOT a natural state, it WILL come to an end. It's what happens then that makes all the difference. In the meantime, we've just got to keep busy and LIVE these very real days that we will never have again. It's OUR lives now that are passing by while our spouse is off on some crazy toot. The more of them we spend brooding and agonizing over them, the more of our own life we waste.

Of course, I have only realized this SINCE we have recovered. I, too, wasted time waiting. Heck, my NAME here is "rightherewaiting!" Apart from educating myself with this site and upteen books, there wasn't much more I was capable of during that time. Don't be hard on yourself. You're doing as well as anyone could.

When the A fizzles, they almost always show up on the doorstep. Question is, by then will we even want them? That was my biggest fear. I prayed long and hard that it wouldn't happen that way. It didn't. He slowly came around, and then we began the long, hard trek back. I learned a lot about me by looking at myself through my FWH's eyes, and I am a better wife for it. He is now a better H than he's ever been. From reading here for a couple of years, I see that I'm not the only one who's had it work out that way. It can be that way for you too.

Patience and faith.

Hugs,

RHW

RHW, your words give me a lot of comfort, thank you. Sometimes I wonder if I have "false" hope, but I don't see how hope can be false -- you either have it or not and I think I have it, so there it is.
I think WH has lost his hope that things could be good again, that I could ever really love him, and so he has chosen to start over. I know how good our marriage has been, so I have that hope, but it gets harder every day to think about how we would even rebuild after all this time. This has been our reality since June (February for him), but it feels like a lifetime...

I do forget at times the positive growth I have experienced during this process since I still have "bad" days and am still imperfect (of course). Sometimes I catch myself beating myself up because I am not perfect (which is why he doesn't want me, my negative thoughts say).

Posting here is helpful and I do have some friends I can call. I have very little "down" time without the kids. It seems like they are always around, which I don't particularly mind, but I may need to starting thinking about some healthy alone time or time with adults!


BF439

BF,

Hope for a good future is not false. What you cannot know right now is what kind of "good" that future will be. But you have it in you to make it good, no matter what WH does/doesn't do. (Happily, you don't have to be perfect to do it either. )

And right now, I'm sure your WH doesn't have any hope that you could forgive him, or that you could recover your marriage. Mine sure didn't, and we spent the first six months post-A struggling to get past that. We are living proof that it CAN happen. WH has to give up OW first, that's all, and that will be on his time table (or hers), not yours.

It's too early to give up hope, BF. I know the months since June seem like a lifetime for you. I remember how time dragged during the wayward months. It was awful. But it isn't unusual for more than a year to go by, seemingly without progress. You've no doubt witnessed that here yourself.

While you're waiting (and growing), I encourage you to find a way to get that healthy alone time, and time with other adults too. Perhaps an arrangement with another mom who'd also like some time alone?

Try to keep focused on YOU for now. You deserve a little TLC.

RHW

Hi BF,

I wish that I could make your WH wake up and realise what a good woman he is insistent on losing. If there was a magic phrase we could discover to switch the light back on, we'd make a fortune!

I know how hard it is to have the kids 99% of the time. Mine are little but I have been diligently taking a night off a week. The kids are picked up from daycare by my parents and they have a sleepover why I do a personal development seminar. We've only got a few weeks let to go, but it's so nice to have a night off for me.

The kids love the sleepover too and feeding the chickens etc.

Is there anyone that can take them once a week or can you get a babysitter and go out for a massage or meet up with a book club or volunteer at a shelter? It sounds like you have a lot of experience in that field. Maybe you could volunteer for work in a suicide prevention call centre or another call centre? You have great skills that could be utilised and the outing for you would be well worth it.

Is there a club nearby where the kids can participate in sports and you can hang out with the other parents?

Keep developing you and your life.

This comment by RHW's was great:-


You will never have to relive today again. Isn't that great! Tomorrow, today will be the past and right now, you have this minute and then the future. You can make it whatever you want. The possibilities are endless!

Go and hire the box set of Sex and the City and watch every episode. Paint your toenails and exfoliate in the living room if it takes your fancy. You probably couldn't do that with H at home, so just live it.

I think of you often and know you are doing great and hanging in there. Smile!

Awwwwwwwwwwwww.........

I just wanted to say, thank you. That is really sweet!!!!

Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww....................!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I remember that you had said your experience taught you patience -- that is something I am still learning. I also have been reflecting on the thought, "things are not what they seem." My marriage was not what I thought it was when he was having an affair and I can't assume I know what is happening for him now.
As far as self care, I am about to schedule my next monthly massage and I went to Yoga last night and it was wonderful!!! I miss being physically active, which has been hard to do in this awful cold we've been having!
BF439

Do any churches near you have a Mother's Day Out program?

I'm not sure. Honestly, childcare is not the problem. My DD13 is simply always there (unless at a friend's house) and I feel like when the other kids are at WH's apartment that I need to catch-up on housework.
I have a lot of friends at work, but none that I have ever socialized with much outside of work. Maybe this was part of the problem for WH that we just never seemed to do anything anymore. We were either at work or home taking care of the kids and the house. I guess I didn't mind as much, because I like being there, but it might have been stiffling to him...
BF439

Most definitely. Remember the 15 hours.

Is D13 helping with the house? She should be. She should be learning how to run her own household by now. I started D18 on chores when she was 8, with picking up her room. Every year, I added one chore: fold towels, dishes in dishwasher, sweep sidewalks after we mowed, kitchen countertops cleaned, wash own clothes...

Yes, the kids are kicking in, but I really let them slack during the initial phase of WH's moving out. Part of what's been hard the last two-three weeks is that I've been recovering from surgery and its sooo cold out here that its hard to do anything!!!
So, the kids have daily chores, but I have to right them down each day (like, today you need to do A,B and C). They are not to the point of doing chores automatically, but that is the goal!! This was another concern of WH, but again, he wasn't around to enforce it -- he just wanted me to do it, which I resented, but now he's just not around and it does need to be done.