I don't know what to expect from Dr. Steve. Like so many BS here, I see my situation as hopeless as my STBXW is fully involved with OM. Why is it that a WS just does not see how selfish and hurtful they are being? Is it all about THEM? Why don't me or our children matter?

It gets me so frustrated that I am left and cheated on and I have to PAY HER for this(HER SELFISHNESS)!

MMF

Because they don't want to see. If they could see how selfish and hurtful and destructive their behavior is, they wouldn't be able to keep doing it. And they really, really want to keep doing it.

Hence the analogies to drug addiction.

Good job on the appointment with Steve. Yes, it sucks. We all feel for you. Steve will help you figure out how to get to a place that doesn't suck quite so much.

I had my session with Dr. Steve yesterday. We spent some time talking about feeling like 2nd choice if she ever chose to try reconciliation. It is so hard to envision my WS turning around from OM. He tried to help me understand that I AM the 1st choice since she married me and we have children but her "perceptions" are off.

Dr. S also talked about the addiction factor. He asked if I would ever have imagined my WW being so nasty based on how we were pre-A. I always felt that she was the sweetest person I have ever known but my view has obviously changed from that POV.

I said that I am having a hard time getting my head around this "addiction" idea and the "fog". Hard to understand it when you are not the one experiencing it. Dr. S was very specific that it is not an "excuse".

What I must accept is that the only chance of a reconciliation is if she is dumped or hurt by OM. From what I have read, very few WS(especially WW) have an epiphany unless this occurs.

All I can do is be a good father to my children and accept that my WW is gone and in love with OM.

So sad to see another family destroyed...

MMF

I'm gonna turn the volume up a little for you, maybe we will take it to 11.

FIGHT!!!!!!

You may never get you wife back, but your childrene are a diferant story.

HIRE A LAWYER!!

TRY TO GET MORE CUSTODY OR PRIMARY CUSTODY OF YOUR CHILDRENE!!

What about this do you not get???

Or is there somthing we dont know?

Gack1,

I HEAR YOU !!!

As I stated, our D is all but final and the visitation is set. I do get much more time than the "every other weekend" structure. I fully intend to go back to family court and petition for a 50/50 parenting time.

So if it has not been understood, we have an agreement but that does not preclude me from going back to FC for additional time.

I do regret not fighting harder but I just was not up to it emotionally but I did not give in to her original demands. We did go back to modify the agreement and my lawyer(a good D attorney) felt I did alright.

Keep in mind, as a father the courts look at me differently. We can kid ourselves that being a good parent should carry some weight, but realistically, the courts naturally favor the mother.

MMF

Awsome!!

I would still try for primary custody.

My attorney has advised me that primary custody will be almost impossible unless I can show she is an unfit mother. She is a good mom just "lost" right now.

Yeah, this fits with what I have observed. It's the reality I have been trying to accept for the past, um, long time now.

This is why we tell you to take care of yourself. You'll be a better father when you are happy. If you continue to thrash and flail against what your WW is doing, you will make yourself miserable, because you can't get anywhere arguing with a WS. It would be more satisfying to pick a fight with a fire hydrant.

What I'm telling you won't stop you, because you're in your own fog. You'll continue to fight and struggle against this reality you never wanted. Lord knows I did. But the sooner you can recognize the futility of fighting it and how that just makes you feel worse, the sooner you can let it go and concentrate on your kids and doing things for yourself. Which will make you happier, which will make you a better father.

No argument there, brother.

May I ask for some thoughts...

Just had an hour long discussion with my WW about our children, our M and why we are where we are today.(WW brought it up)

For all who care to comment...

If my WW is so "DONE" with me and our M and is with OM in her heart. why does she still talk to me about our M? Why does she get emotional when we talk about it?

I am so confused and it rips at my heart when she does this.

MMF

Am I crazy to still be so attracted to someone who has been unfaithful?

Why does she insist on M talk when the papers are signed(because she wanted a D) and she is with OM?

I want this hurt to stop yet, she brings up our M and then she says: "I don't want to talk about it or rehash it again".

If she didn't want to talk about it WHY does she bring it up all over again?

What has steve advised you to do?

Dr. Steve says to continue toward self-improvement and watch and see if the A burns itself out.

I can't wait forever. I have a life and needs as well.

However, I promised her my love and fidelity until I die.

MMF

You can improve yourself and make a good life without her. Get busy on that. Then either way, you win.

Affairs almost always end. You can count on that.

And I wouldn't discuss the relationship with her as long as she is with the OM. Let her know there is no room for a third person, and you won't be discussing anything with her until he is out of the picture.

No one is telling you to wait forever. You're free to do whatever you want. But if you would like a shot at reconciliation (which it does seem like you do) then you should work on improving yourself and wait for the affair to die (which it will probably do within a year or two).

Words and actions are two separate things. Your WW says she's DONE with you and your M, yet calls you up to talk about your M. Hmmm, guess that means she's not DONE, doesn't it. This is why you shouldn't believe a word that comes out of your WW's mouth. Pay attention only to actions. Honestly, you shouldn't even be having these discussions with her because it's just going to make you confused and miserable. They won't do either of you any good, so stop it with the M discussions. That's not a part of Plan A or Plan B.

No, because you Miss Your Family. You can see what is being lost here. Unfortunately, she can't. Or maybe she has enough of a glimmer that she can sense it but can't act on it.

This is the kind of madness that Plan B will shield you from. Wayward spouses spew all kinds of hurtful crap that will just make you nuts if you listen to it. So don't listen to it.

Plan B. It's the thing that will give you the best chance to recover your marriage, and it will help keep you sane even if you don't recover, or choose not to recover, or whatever.

I still continue to process this nightmare. She is so wrapped up in OM that I expect to hear about an engagement any time now. Her weekends are about being with OM with our children and when they are with me.

I have been vigilant in letting my D6 and S5 know that their mother is a liar and a cheater and her relationship with OM is wrong.

She will never, ever, ever get a free pass to be an adulterer and break up our family because of her selfishness. I will make certain that my children resent her and her choice to be a cheater for the rest of her life.

As a BS, I will not be silent and just "take it" regarding her choice to be an adulterer. I read about "Protection Phase" and wonder why I, or any other BS, would protect the WS from the children knowing the truth.

This is the issue I have...the BS is to be the "mature" person and is expected to do the right thing for the children while the WS goes about their selfish ways expecting no consequences.

To make my point about selfishness...

Last night my D6 told me she asked her mother why we were getting divorced. Her mother's response, "Daddy was supposed to take care of me and he didn't."

ALL ABOUT HER...LYING, CHEATING, SELFISH ADULTERER !!!

My children will grow up knowing that their mother only gives a **** about herself and what the TRUTH really is

She and the OM appear ready to fall within the 3-5% of affairs becoming marriage. (aren't I the lucky one)

MMF

Need some feedback...

Our D agreement states that XWW gets the children Christmas Eve and I Christmas Day this year. She is fuming because I am having them all day on XMAS because she expected my children to stay overnight with her into XMAS morning then give me a few hours only to bring them back later.

She has threatened to "make things worse" since I will not give her time on XMAS day. Last year I did not see my children at all on XMAS day so it is only fair that we do the same this year.

Also, she stated that I am to pick up my children at 12 midnight and "not a minute earlier" because I have them all day on XMAS.

So my question...

Do I meet her half way and a cooperative XH/Father(not being a doormat) or do I stick to the agreement?

I do not want to let this get out of hand because I still care for her and the well-being of my children.

Thanks,

MMF

Figure out what is best for the kids - and do whatever that is.

Divorce agreements are created for a reason. A feuding, divorcing/divorced couple rarely agree on anything and usually go out of their way to actually disagree.

Rule #1 The divorce agreement dictates parenting time.
Rule #2 Parents can "agree" to differentiate from Rule #1.
Rule #3 When parents cannot execute Rule #2, refer back to Rule #1.

Always carry a copy of your divorce agreement with you for those occasions when law enforcement becomes involved in a disagreement. Law enforcement will/should enforce Rule #1.

It sucks when kids are the object of a tug-o-war.

Here are some gems from the holidays...

1) XWW calls to discuss the Christmas arrangement where I have both children for XMAS day(all day). She is not happy with the arrangement so she wants to negotiate a "middle ground". We talk for 45 minutes mostly about the marriage and the things that happened. She STILL denies she was with OM while we were still together. So when we finish talking about R(I didn't start it she did) she CRIES AGAIN and then we finish the call.

2) OM was at her parent's house(where she currently lives) for Christmas night and New Year's Eve. (Great knowing I returned my children back so OM could stop over)

3) D6 tells me that she asked her mother for $4 to buy her teacher a Xmas gift. XWW said "No" HOWEVER my DD said, "mommy cannot give me money for my teacher's gift but she bought all kinds of presents for OM's kids"

4) It has been an even greater insult to me knowing that my XWW bought OM and his kids Christmas gifts with money she gets for CS. (Remember, she doesn't work and lives rent-free with her parents). I said that to her in our conversation before XMAS and she said, "that isn't true". Since she doesn't work...then where did she get the money for all the gifts?

5) Just before New Years my DS was sick and we all met at CVS to get his prescription. Anyway, we were in the store together(all 4 of us alone)for the first time in over a year. My DD asked her mother the next day how she felt having our family together again and my XWW said "it is very sad".(How sad that my XWW doesn't care except about herself)

6) I am very surprised that XWW and OM did not get engaged over the holidays.


This pain must get easier at some point. It hurts to know her family accepts OM with no regard for our 15 years together and she has moved on as if I don't exist(except for her CS payments)

My DS and DD are very sad and I cannot do anything to make it better and to get my XWW to WAKE UP!!!

It is also very confusing when XWW talks about our M and cries. It is so unfair and gives me mixed signals but then I hear about all she is doing for OM and his kids and knocks me down again.

When does this end ??