Tully:
It's been one year since D-day for me and WH had continued to defended OW during this entire time -- even calling her a great mother! And he adds that wanting out of our M has nothing to do with her. Funny, I didn't even know there were problems in our M until she showed up.

As for your WH threatening you with D, he's just blowing smoke. During this past year, WH and I have had two public blow ups -- both resulting in him stating that he'll file the next day. And both times, he hasn't. I think waywards just go on the attack with their sins are revealed in the light of day.

It hurts to hear them say these things. My feeling is that when/if my WH files, it will be with a wimper instead of a roar.

Well, his response is pretty much word-perfect for the average outed WS. As I said before...How could you hurt poor OW like this?...You've ended any chance of recovering the marriage...I want a divorce.

Blahblahblahblahblahblahblah....

The truly stupid thing here is not him lashing out at you (utterly predictable), but his panicky response to the other email addressees. This will have them rolling in the aisles. Is he really too dumb to realise that he's simply confirmed all that you said, AND that his defence of the OW rather than you makes him look like a complete cad? And all of a sudden he's in the process of divorcing? He really is pretty stupid in some ways, isn't he?

This is the voice of complete panic ('My professional reputation is going down the tubes!') allied, I believe, to a narcissistic wound ('How dare anyone do this to ME?'). You have confirmed that you are no longer a source of narcissistic supply to him, so he'll need to get some from elsewhere. The OW is going to be drained dry, I suspect. Poor dear.

Hold on tight, Tully. That rollercoaster is firing up.

TA

TA - you nailed it!

Tully, I bet your wh's reply - sent to all those other people - makes him look lots worse than he already looked. And he's too dense to know that.

Score 100 for the Tullster! You've done a good day's work, sistah! With a great translation by TA, to boot.

When you have a chance, please tell us more about your dad. I am praying for his healing, but far more important is that he loves God.

Your father has an amazing legacy in you and your fantastic sisters. (Brothers, too, if you have them.) Whatever may happen, don't be afraid. You and your family are very precious to the Father.

Thank you all for your support and encouragement. I'm not sure what I think right now although two people said to me today that I'm looking much better than when I came home first. It probably because even though I've gained a bit of weight on my body I've lost quite a lot off my mind.

BR, my instinct right now tells me not to respond to WH at all until after speaking to the solicitor on Friday. I feel like saying a lot of strong words to him but I don't want to be counterproductive. I'm not sure any more if there is any future for our M but I think I'd better wait and let the dust settle before deciding anything. Also I need to know my rights before writing anything down that indicates an acceptance of D.

Lots of you seem to think that this is a bluff, that he will not go through with it but he is so stubborn and proud that it's scary. I forgot to mention that he put OW in copy of the email he sent to me and this annoyed me. Each and every time he sides with her and defends her while he provokes me and accuses me of all the wrong.

In the car on the way home from school, one of the girls asked me about going to France and I told them that I didn't think we would be going there as Dad had asked me for a D. I told them that we had come to Ireland to make Dad choose between me and OW and that I think he has now chosen OW. I emphasised that this had nothing to do with them, that he still loves them just as much but that he doesn't love me.

Tully, he was trying to appease OW-- "look, see what I'm doing, I'm getting on to her for doing what she did... NOOOOWWWW will you please quit lovebusting me?... Owwww.... owwww... that hurts...."

He's trying to "save face" where there is no face to save.

He's typical wayward... wah, wah, you told on me now I'm NEVER coming back!!!

Tee hee, having WH take her side is not going to ENTIRELY remove the sting of having all her co-workers know she's a skankylosaur.

Don't stress it too much - I'd be surprised if he didn't take her side.

As to the D thing? Maybe he will, maybe he won't. Plenty of M's around here have recovered even after a D became final. Definitely consult your atty, but don't worry about what will happen.

Though it would be plenty of fun to blow the two adulterers out of the water, I vote for a dignified silence in response to his ridiculous illogic.

I should have clarified tully. I wouldn't respond to him yet either. Let him stew and continue to make an [censored] out of himself. Even after you speak to the solictor on Friday, you don't have contact him if you aren't up to it yet. I just meant whenever you do end up responding, let the truth speak for itself and don't apologize for trying to save your marriage and family.

Is he bluffing? I don't know but he's going to look like a scumbag no matter which way he slices it and logically he KNOWS this no matter how much he wants to desperately deny it. That's why waywards get defensive, angry and freak out...they can't escape the truth. My FWH's head nearly blew up when I exposed his A and stomped OW into the dirt. There were times that I thought there is no way on God's green earth that we will EVER recover and yet here we are. My H felt bad for OW and defended her as well. Right now it's a wait and see situation. WH may be serious because he won't let go of his false pride or it could be the typical reaction because he is embarrassed that his peers will see him and OW as worthy...as they should.

Nothing like riding in to "save" the victimized shrieking OW while wearing your tarnished armour. :RollieEyes:

There have been many a soul on here that have eventually thanked the OP for ...either helping to end the M...or to bring about changes to the M that needed to happen.

If he has been this stubborn and proud...and should I say it...spoiled, throughout your M, then perhaps a fall is what was coming sooner or later...

I think I would have given up hope on my M a long time ago if it wasn't for all of you. (thank you for that translation, TA) You all don't see things as blackly as most people around me do or even as blackly as I do. Life has not been good for the past year to two years and it has taken its toll on me and the children.

BR, it's nice of you to say that my children are lucky to have me but I'm not fully sure that's true. I've been very distracted and narky with them for a longish time now. I manage to do all the practical, manual things reasonably well, like cooking, cleaning, homework but I don't think I'm giving them 100% of myself when I'm with them and this has to change. (Actually I think it is changing for the better in very recent days) At least half my brain has been upset/ scheming/ worrying/ anxious about my M and WH even before I found out about the A and this isn't good for them. They sense this and react in order to get my full attention which sometimes translates into shouting at them or getting irritated. I feel horrible for this and wish I could be a better mother. Overall they seem OK with being here but occasionally they get a bit upset, usually at night. DD8 said to me a few days ago that if WH and I couldn't be together then why couldn't they stay with him in France instead of with me. This comment went through me like a knife although I think it was just a temporary dip in her mood.

I'm rambling, I should stop. I suppose what I'm saying is that I have been heavy-hearted for too long and I need to find a way to be light-hearted for the sake of my children.

Tully, I know you've had a hard day, and I don't want to make it any harder for you...but I'm a little bit concerned about this. It chimes with the original title of the thread, and I think there's something you need to wake up to.

For most BSs, there's a powerful sense that the OP is the problem. The OP seems like the big enemy - if they weren't there, the WS would wake up and sprint back to the marriage. Heck, if they hadn't existed, there would never have been a problem for the BS to face.

But it's not true.

Long ago, the MB vets used to tell us hurting newbies again and again 'It's not about the OW/OM.' The Harleys emphasise this over and over - the OP is just the focus of something that's coming from the WS. They have no special charm or attraction. They just fit into some unhealthy need of the WS.

It takes two to make a seduction work - one who's doing the seducing, and one who's willing to be seduced. I'm worried that you're still clinging to a notion that your emotionally illiterate WH was manipulated by the wicked OW. Doubtless she used all the tricks that OWs try...but not one of them would have worked had your WH not been 'interested', and had he steadfastly rebuffed her and put firm boundaries in place. He did not. It's almost certain that he gave her reason to think that it was worth pursuing him, don't you think? He was an equal partner to the decision to embark on an illicit relationship.

Your current problems haven't arisen out of the OW not giving up. They've arisen out of your WH not pushing her away. Believe me, a truly determined WS can make it absolutely clear that it's over, and the OP knows it. This OW knows that your WH is still in the game - and that's down to how he's conducted himself.

The fact that he hasn't finished with her is not because she's got anything special, but because he still has something weak and dysfunctional in himself. Do you think, if this OW went off the edge of a cliff tomorrow, and your WH 'woke up' and came back, that he wouldn't find another OW a year or so down the line? Because there are always going to be young, ambitious, attractive female post-grads, and if nothing gets fixed, he's still going to be an ageing man getting no closer to Nobel glory, whose ego needs a lot of boosting, who's always going to be vulnerable to the flattery of the unscrupulous.

She's not the problem in your marriage, Tully. He is.

Now that you've exposed the affair and removed as much as you can of the social cover the affairees had, I'd advise you to forget the OW. You've done what you can to spike her guns, and you've shown your WH that you're an adversary to be reckoned with.

Telling the girls that their father has chosen OW over you, is, I think, melodramatic, and also not accurate. He's unwilling to be in a marriage in which he has to be faithful to his wife, which is not the same thing. If he really wanted a serious relationship with OW, he'd have walked out in August. It looks like a standard sex-and-ego-rub deal for him, so he hasn't exactly chosen her over you. All the posturing over the insult to HER is really about the insult to him - it shows him as a dirty old man with bad taste in illicit lays.

And, Tully, the D word is a HUGE issue for children. Your WH's phone-call is the opening salvo in a long battle - you really don't know for sure what he wants until battle lines get established. Telling the girls that he's asked for a divorce while you're driving the car back from school, a few hours after a highly emotional email from WH, seems to me to be more about your own emotional hurt than the girls' needs. I do understand the intensity of the pain, Tully, but the miserable, deeply unfair truth is that YOU are the parent in residence, and YOU have responsibility for insulating the girls from what they're not mature enough to deal with.

I add your father to my prayers. {{{Tully}}}

TA

TA,

Absolutely incitefull!!!

Can't add a thing.

All Blessings,
Jerry

TA, I see what you are saying and I agree with you fully. I know that OW is the not problem, that WH is, but I compare this situation to alcoholism. WH is like an alcoholic.

Of course I know that the alcohol itself is not the problem, that there is a weakness within WH that caused him to drink to excess, that life circumstances need to be changed to prevent him from drinking again. Certain friends might need to be dropped, certain activities might need to be replaced, our life together needs to change so that going to places where drink is served is no longer a major part of our lives. He needs support, love and assistance to help him overcome the addiction. But before all this happens, he needs first to stop drinking.

For 10 weeks, while in Plan A, I ran myself ragged dragging him out of pubs, searching the house for secret stashes of alcohol, begging him listen to me and to stop drinking for my sake but I came to realise that if he wants to drink I can't stop him. He is an adult and that decision has to come from him.

In Plan B I was trying to say that I am prepared to help and do what it takes to help him stay on the path to sobriety but he must ask for my help first and be committed himself. I'm not blaming the OW any more than I'm blaming the bottle of whiskey but that doesn't stop me pouring the bottle of whiskey down the sink rather than leave it in the house. If he can't or won't break away then the only thing I can do is cut myself loose and refuse to go to he!! with him.

As for my response to the girls, I'm not sure if I was right in what I said but it seemed easier to say than to explain what 'faithful' means or that I'm afraid that there will be another OW in the future or criticising him for having a 'weakness' in him. I was afraid that these kind of explanations might go over their heads or distress them even further.

TA, I just wanted to add that the email I sent to OW didn't reflect accurately my real feelings on the A. I am totally aware the OW is not the main problem here but for several reasons I focused on her and her actions in this email.
- I wanted to deliberately avoid accusing WH too much because I wanted to preseve, if I could, the possibility of him working in Ireland in this lab if the need should arise in the future.
- I wanted to keep the focus on OW in this particular email rather than confuse the issue with a discussion of WH's responsibility
- and finally I felt the battle to deal with WH's culpability is better fought elsewhere out of the public domaine.

As an alcoholic myself, I can attest that all of the above will have no effect until your H hits his own bottom and decides himself that with the help of god and others, he must desparetly find a way to stop and save his M and family.

I had to do the same thing, and remained sober for 16 years. It can be done.

Can't say with any pride what happened on DDay after the effort of 16 years of sobriety, but I'm still an alcoholic, that's for sure.

All Blessings,
Jerry

:twobyfour: Take that tully!

You are a good mother.

All BSs that have young ones more than likely acted the same way. Lord knows it's not our finest hours. I know I got short with my kids at times because I was angry at FWH and the situation, not them. Just doing the basics was an accomplishment most days. Don't beat yourself up. Instead grab your little ones and give them big hugs and kisses when you start to feel irritated and apologize if needed. DD8 understandably misses her dad. She barely sees him and doesn't understand the gravity of what D means. The reverse would hold true if she hardly saw you. Don't beat yourself up over the comments about D in the car either. I said almost the exact same thing to my kids about daddy not loving me anymore without mention of OW though. Mom is human too.

I agree with everything that TA said about WH being the problem and I don't think you have been blind to this either. It would have been pointless to address a letter to OW to complain about WH's behavior. She may not be to blame for WH's decisions but she is still a fraud to have wedged herself into your lives the way she did and should be exposed as such.

WH will have to hit rock bottom tully. I don't know what other way he could possibly understand all he has done and change into a man of humility without becoming a broken man first. That day will be the worst day of his life and he will never forget it. Do you attend church tully? I can't recall if you have ever spoken with a clergyman.

Neak, thanks for your concern about my dad but I just want to clarify that he is doing just fine. When I said 'he's dying of the flu' I meant this as an expression, not literally. He just has a bad dose of flu and has been confined to the bed for a few days but he's as strong as a horse and is already getting back to form.

BR, I am not religious and have not spoken to a clergyman. My own personal beliefs are that our actions and words resonate through the lives of those we come into contact with, like ripples in a pond and I try to make the impact I have throughout my life as positive as I can but I'm afraid I don't believe in a Higher Being. This may be a belief that others find hard to accept but I respect and admire those who live by religious principles, it's just a belief system that does not work for me.

Understood tully. I was thinking perhaps you might consider speaking to a clergyman if you were religious as you say you've been heavy hearted for some time and wasn't sure if religion played any part into your or WW decisions regarding divorce, forgiveness, etc.

How are you feeling?